Liberals want healthcare for illegals

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Shooter

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Fearful that they're losing ground on immigration and health care, a group of House Democrats is pushing back and arguing that any health care bill should extend to all legal immigrants and allow illegal immigrants some access

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/sep/28/liberals-seek-health-care-access-for-illegals/

You gotta love it.

After Obama promises that he doesn't want healthcare for illlegals, members of his own party are insisting on it. No wonder at least 56% of all Americans are now opposed to the healthcare reform bill.
 
What happens today when an illegal goes to the emergency room in a life-threatening state, gets treated, and is then unable to pay the bills he's accrued? Am I wrong in guessing the hospital's insurance covers that debt?
 
This can't be correct. We were absolutely assured by the lefties on this board that this was NOT going to happen.

Barfo was one of the ring-leaders guaranteeing it.

:crazy:

Others on here read the proposal's language and could easily see that the Democrats were leaving the language wishy-washy for the ability to later try to push this through.
 
What happens today when an illegal goes to the emergency room in a life-threatening state, gets treated, and is then unable to pay the bills he's accrued? Am I wrong in guessing the hospital's insurance covers that debt?

I believe so. There really isn't another answer, other than kicking them to the curb and letting them die. (Which, I suspect, would be sadly appealing to some.)

I really don't think health care is where we as Americans want to fight the battle of immigration. You would hope that the person who crashes into you has liability insurance on his car, illegal immigrant or not. You would also hope that the person standing in front of you having a heart attack doesn't die, illegal immigrant or not.

As someone with far more experience with the legal/illegal immigration process than many here, I'm all for tightening border security and requiring businesses to check immigrant status. I'm also for chucking out much of the ridiculous existing system and working from a clean slate.

There doesn't have to be a good guy/bad guy in immigration. Sensible people can come to sensible solutions without demonizing the opposition or immigrants.
 
I sure hope this can be repealed and extended even further back, including no ER visits. I just hope the illegal who is bleeding out in an ER waiting room had the common decency to finish picking his row of strawberries before heading to the hospital.
 
There really isn't another answer, other than kicking them to the curb and letting them die. (Which, I suspect, would be sadly appealing to some.)

Being kicked to the curb and dying would be appealing to some illegal immigrants? :dunno:
 
This can't be correct. We were absolutely assured by the lefties on this board that this was NOT going to happen.

Barfo was one of the ring-leaders guaranteeing it.

:crazy:

Others on here read the proposal's language and could easily see that the Democrats were leaving the language wishy-washy for the ability to later try to push this through.
Absolutely right. The Left has been howling about "false charges" and "mudslinging," while the whole time they knew the charges were totally accurate. It's hypocrisy on full display.
 
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I sure hope this can be repealed and extended even further back, including no ER visits. I just hope the illegal who is bleeding out in an ER waiting room had the common decency to finish picking his row of strawberries before heading to the hospital.

I would hope the illegal had the common decency never to illegally cross the border in the first place.

I get the arguments against it, but we either have to start enforcing our borders or the concept of a nation becomes moot. Sometimes, it has to be tough love. I am more than happy to treat an illegal alien. I'm happy to pay for his or her medical costs. And then I'm more than happy to have them deported to their country of origin along with their family. Is that tough? You bet. But it needs to be done.

If they choose not to seek treatment, that's their problem.
 
What happens today when an illegal goes to the emergency room in a life-threatening state, gets treated, and is then unable to pay the bills he's accrued? Am I wrong in guessing the hospital's insurance covers that debt?

Yes, this is what happens today.

But the current proposals being thrown around are estimated to cost about $10-16k per person, per year.

There is no way that the average illegal goes to the ER often enough to average $10-16k per year in services.

It would be cheaper for us taxpayers to continue paying for emergency care for illegals than to provide free healthcare.
 
Yes, this is what happens today.

But the current proposals being thrown around are estimated to cost about $10-16k per person, per year.

There is no way that the average illegal goes to the ER often enough to average $10-16k per year in services.

It would be cheaper for us taxpayers to continue paying for emergency care for illegals than to provide free healthcare.

Yeah, this is my thought on this as well. You get health insurance in the States only if you are legal basically.

Too bad illegals, I dont really wanna help pay a moocher's bill unless it is an emergency.
 
So because 21 people sign onto a bill where they are outnumbered by their own party by 230+ in addition to Republican opposition, it's going to happen?

This is what makes your complaints worthless and look so ridiculous. There are plenty of areas to make valid arguments and counterpoints, this one is just lame.
 
There is a difference between allowing them to purchase insurance through the programs and giving them free insurance. Why shouldn't a person be allowed to be responsible and purchase insurance through the insurance exchange that is present in the health care bill? What's the beef? Now that we want to give the illegals a chance to be responsible and buy their own insurance, that is not good enough for you? The facts are, you oppose the bill because it is put in place by the Democrats, and it doesn't matter to you if the bill is good or bad. All you care about is that your Republican cronies get back in power and try to make the Democrats look bad. That is not good for the country. You have been blinded by the fact that your Republicans are no longer in power, and have lost the vision of what is needed to make this country better, which is legitimate debate. You would rather post ill titled threads filled with venom than actually discuss the subject. Maybe you should just change your screen name to "FoxNetworkPoster". It would be more suited. :devilwink:
 
No wonder at least 56% of all Americans are now opposed to the healthcare reform bill.

That's phrased in a misleading and inaccurate way.

"Also, from the beginning of the debate, the has been a huge partisan divide. Currently 75% of Democrats favor the plan. Seventy-nine percent (79%) of Republicans are opposed, as are 72% of the unaffiliated.'

So it's NOT 56% of ALL Americans.

It's a larger percentage of the same hateful defectives that support torture of prisoners, war for profit, world domination, corporate immunity from our justice system, and a society based on the law of the jungle.

Nice people support universal healthcare. To do otherwise demonstrates a severely damaged, and ultimately dangerous psyche.
 
I can't wait until we're a communist country. I'm not gonna do shit. I'm going to sit around on my ass and do nothing all day. Let the Maris' of the world take care of me. It's gonna be sweet!
 
I can't wait until we're a communist country. I'm not gonna do shit. I'm going to sit around on my ass and do nothing all day. Let the Maris' of the world take care of me. It's gonna be sweet!

It will be difficult to support other people as a government employed mailman, living in LaPine. :dunno:
 
I would hope the illegal had the common decency never to illegally cross the border in the first place.

I get the arguments against it, but we either have to start enforcing our borders or the concept of a nation becomes moot. Sometimes, it has to be tough love. I am more than happy to treat an illegal alien. I'm happy to pay for his or her medical costs. And then I'm more than happy to have them deported to their country of origin along with their family. Is that tough? You bet. But it needs to be done.

If they choose not to seek treatment, that's their problem.

maybe the americans who hire these ppl should have the common decency to hire americans instead even if that hurts their bottomline. ppl go where there is work- your ancestors left europe to find work in the america's and these ppl (not aliens) are doing the exact same. maybe if US employers acted in accordance with the law- all of this could have been averted.
 
It will be difficult to support other people as a government employed mailman, living in LaPine. :dunno:

I am a self-employed Realtor, not a government employee.

You are clearly confused about how communisn works, and probably capitalism also.

I suggest you turn off Fox News and spend some serious time at the library educating yourself.
 
maybe the americans who hire these ppl should have the common decency to hire americans instead even if that hurts their bottomline. ppl go where there is work- your ancestors left europe to find work in the america's and these ppl (not aliens) are doing the exact same. maybe if US employers acted in accordance with the law- all of this could have been averted.

I would support mandatory jail for employers who knowingly hire illegal aliens.
 
There is a difference between allowing them to purchase insurance through the programs and giving them free insurance. Why shouldn't a person be allowed to be responsible and purchase insurance through the insurance exchange that is present in the health care bill? What's the beef? Now that we want to give the illegals a chance to be responsible and buy their own insurance, that is not good enough for you? The facts are, you oppose the bill because it is put in place by the Democrats, and it doesn't matter to you if the bill is good or bad. All you care about is that your Republican cronies get back in power and try to make the Democrats look bad. That is not good for the country. You have been blinded by the fact that your Republicans are no longer in power, and have lost the vision of what is needed to make this country better, which is legitimate debate. You would rather post ill titled threads filled with venom than actually discuss the subject. Maybe you should just change your screen name to "FoxNetworkPoster". It would be more suited. :devilwink:

It begins and ends with the fact that they're here ILLEGALLY.
 
I am a self-employed Realtor, not a government employee.

You are clearly confused about how communisn works, and probably capitalism also.

I suggest you turn off Fox News and spend some serious time at the library educating yourself.

Self-employed Realtor in LaPine. No wonder you support government programs providing free handouts.
 
It seems to me that the post above ("is healthcare going to be where the immigration battle is fought?") is on the money. Giving healthcare to illegal immigrants, or giving them the option to buy the government-plan insurance (I understand the difference) doesn't do anything about the problem. Of course saying "you don't want people to die, do you? Support this bill!" is going to appeal to emotion. Yes, nice people support people not dying in the street. However, "Illegal" is not just a fancy adjective applied for no reason. The people who that appellation applies to are in our country illegally and are criminals according to US law. Now, I'm all for figuring out a way to speed up the legal immigration process, or work visa process, or whatever. But I'm against protection and amnesty supporting criminal behavior. EDIT: For instance, we could compromise and say it's ok to be here illegally right now, if you and your employer go through a modified work visa process. If you don't, you get deported after you've received your health care/had the firemen put out the fire at your apartment/gotten pulled over for your speeding ticket.

Why can't we have a real debate about immigration reform in parallel with the healthcare stuff? Is that too tough for Congress to do?
 
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There is a difference between allowing them to purchase insurance through the programs and giving them free insurance. Why shouldn't a person be allowed to be responsible and purchase insurance through the insurance exchange that is present in the health care bill? What's the beef? Now that we want to give the illegals a chance to be responsible and buy their own insurance, that is not good enough for you?

Are you actually implying that most illegals wouldn't fall below the poverty line, and thus wouldn't qualify for subsidizing? Really? Seriously?
 
maybe the americans who hire these ppl should have the common decency to hire americans instead even if that hurts their bottomline. ppl go where there is work- your ancestors left europe to find work in the america's and these ppl (not aliens) are doing the exact same. maybe if US employers acted in accordance with the law- all of this could have been averted.

I think companies that willingly hire illegals should be heavily fined. Furthermore, if we really need the additional labor, then we need to set up a program where we process large numbers of unskilled workers, give them biometric IDs and then have the company be responsible for deporting them when their visa is up.
 
That's phrased in a misleading and inaccurate way.

"Also, from the beginning of the debate, the has been a huge partisan divide. Currently 75% of Democrats favor the plan. Seventy-nine percent (79%) of Republicans are opposed, as are 72% of the unaffiliated.'

So it's NOT 56% of ALL Americans.
I wasn't referring to this article, but to another one that reported the results of the latest poll on healthcare reform. I'll try to track it down.
 
I think companies that willingly hire illegals should be heavily fined. Furthermore, if we really need the additional labor, then we need to set up a program where we process large numbers of unskilled workers, give them biometric IDs and then have the company be responsible for deporting them when their visa is up.




I have been suggesting this for a little while too. This makes the most sense, to me.


Brainstorming here, but what about fining the country of Mexico for illegals? Maybe Mexico would assist a lot more on the boarder? Would that damage the relationship too much?
 
Yeah, this is my thought on this as well. You get health insurance in the States only if you are legal basically.

Too bad illegals, I dont really wanna help pay a moocher's bill unless it is an emergency.
You realize right that Illegals pay Social Security taxes into whomever's SSN# they have illegallly been using. Plus they purchase food here, plus they subsidize your food with their illegally low wages etc. etc. To call them moochers isn't quite accurate. They probably have propped up more of this country then most folks realize. Lord knows most rich white californians would REALLY have to shell out the big $ if they wanted their houses cleaned by legal help. Funny how all the criticism is on the illegals themselves and not their employers who TRULY reap the benefits. My opinion is you should fine the bejeesus out of any organization/individual that uses illegal labor. If we were serious about stopping illegal immigration we would do this, of course our food bills would sky rocket but that's what we want right? Right now the illegals get sent back and the employer if they are even fined at all get a modest slap on the wrist and usually don't have to pay for the now deported labor so they profit. I wonder why so many coporations/farms/individuals hire illegals for work...oh right profit.

That said Illegals SHOULD BE DEPORTED when found. Unfortunately, thanks to NAFTA there is no solution to the immigration problem as there will be a never ending flood of illegals into this country because NAFTA absolutely wiped out rural family run farms with subsidized US corn. It's alot more complicated then most folks on this board want to deal with. If this was not EXTREMELY PROFITABLE for a number of corporations - such as Hormell meat packers and most of our agriculture - then there wouldn't be an illegal immigration problem, period. I'd love to hear someone on the right explain why we shouldn't fine the businesses that hire illegal help to a degree where it was not worth it say $40k per illegal found working for you.
 
No problem with me fining businesses who are breaking immigration laws.
 
I think companies that willingly hire illegals should be heavily fined. Furthermore, if we really need the additional labor, then we need to set up a program where we process large numbers of unskilled workers, give them biometric IDs and then have the company be responsible for deporting them when their visa is up.
Why should their be a guest worker program at all? We don't want illegal immigrants then don't bring in bargain basement labor. I mean isn't the issue that illegals are stealing jobs/services from god fearing honest Americans? I fail to see how this helps that angle. We need to fine Corporations/Farms/Individuals that hire illegals and it needs to be a MASSIVE UNAVOIDABLE FINE. If you don't support that then you are just like Obama you want exceptions for your political reasons, in this case you want cheap labor for corporations (really cheap produce), just not granting the right of citizenship. Stick with your guns folks. Either you want them here working on the cheap, or you don't want them here. Guest worker is some serious BS that undercuts american citizens job opportunities and allows corporations to get insanely cheap labor that skews the entire labor market and forces wages down.
 
You realize right that Illegals pay Social Security taxes into whomever's SSN# they have illegallly been using. Plus they purchase food here, plus they subsidize your food with their illegally low wages etc. etc. To call them moochers isn't quite accurate. They probably have propped up more of this country then most folks realize. Lord knows most rich white californians would REALLY have to shell out the big $ if they wanted their houses cleaned by legal help. Funny how all the criticism is on the illegals themselves and not their employers who TRULY reap the benefits. My opinion is you should fine the bejeesus out of any organization/individual that uses illegal labor. If we were serious about stopping illegal immigration we would do this, of course our food bills would sky rocket but that's what we want right? Right now the illegals get sent back and the employer if they are even fined at all get a modest slap on the wrist and usually don't have to pay for the now deported labor so they profit. I wonder why so many coporations/farms/individuals hire illegals for work...oh right profit.

That said Illegals SHOULD BE DEPORTED when found. Unfortunately, thanks to NAFTA there is no solution to the immigration problem as there will be a never ending flood of illegals into this country because NAFTA absolutely wiped out rural family run farms with subsidized US corn. It's alot more complicated then most folks on this board want to deal with. If this was not EXTREMELY PROFITABLE for a number of corporations - such as Hormell meat packers and most of our agriculture - then there wouldn't be an illegal immigration problem, period. I'd love to hear someone on the right explain why we shouldn't fine the businesses that hire illegal help to a degree where it was not worth it say $40k per illegal found working for you.
My opinion is that we should require those enrolling in a public plan or seeking subsidies to purchase private insurance to have their citizenship verified.
With that said, can illegals falsify social security numbers and find ways around this law? Of course they can. Everything has loopholes. All I'm saying is that we perhaps stick with the current setup about illegals in health care along with some stronger rules on them concerning purchasing health insurance paid via taxes.

Oh, and boohoo if Californians have to pay for legal work. Hiring illegals should come with bigger risks to the employer if they know the workers are not working legally.
 

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