Link for Barfo

[Denny Crane]

Link

 

[barfo]

Yes, I completely agree that we should not extend the Bush tax cuts. They were a bad idea then, and this CBO report shows why they are a bad idea going forward.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

What is enough taxation, barfo?

As a % of GDP.

 

[barfo]

What is enough taxation, barfo?

As a % of GDP.

That's like asking "how much should a car cost?"

Are we talking about a Yugo, a Honda, a Lexus, or a Bugatti Veyron? The prices will vary.

I know you want the Yugo. I think it's a crap car and I don't want it in my yard.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Right now, what should the taxes as a % of GDP be?

For whatever you think govt. is good for.

 

[barfo]

Right now, what should the taxes as a % of GDP be?

For whatever you think govt. is good for.

I don't have a number in mind for taxes as a % of GDP. I could go do some research and get back to you with a number - but before I do, please motivate me to do so. How will this enhance our discussion?

barfo

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

I don't have a number in mind for taxes as a % of GDP. I could go do some research and get back to you with a number - but before I do, please motivate me to do so. How will this enhance our discussion?

barfo

I want to know what you think is fair too...

 

[Denny Crane]

Well, you said the Bush tax cuts should not be extended. That's going to raise taxes as a % of GDP, so you must favor higher taxes as a % of GDP. At this point, I'm curious as to how much is enough.

From my perspective, it'd take 27% to come near balancing the budget, and I don't think we've ever been close to 27% in our history, nor am I sure it's even possible to tax that much. And there's a real cost to taking 27% - something like a 33% tax hike on absolutely everyone and everything that is currently taxed.

 

[barfo]

I want to know what you think is fair too...

Are some tax rates more fair than others? Is there a tax rate that is "most fair"? And is that tax rate something other than zero?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Are some tax rates more fair than others? Is there a tax rate that is "most fair"? And is that tax rate something other than zero?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

barfo

Wouldn't it be fair for everyone to pony up what it takes for govt. to be all that you think it could be?

So what does it take for govt. to be all that you think it can be...

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

Are some tax rates more fair than others? Is there a tax rate that is "most fair"? And is that tax rate something other than zero?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

barfo

i think my question is very simple, and denny alluded to it




For the current services i recieve from my state and local govt, what % of the GDP should be taxes?

 

[barfo]

Wouldn't it be fair for everyone to pony up what it takes for govt. to be all that you think it could be?

I suppose if I was the only citizen in the country, that would be perfectly fair. Otherwise, I don't see why I'd have the right to impose what I think is good on the rest of you.

So what does it take for govt. to be all that you think it can be...

Well, if I was king, there would be a lot of changes. But this isn't really about me being king, is it?

barfo

 

[barfo]

i think my question is very simple, and denny alluded to it


For the current services i recieve from my state and local govt, what % of the GDP should be taxes?

State and local? Or federal, state, and local?

barfo

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

State and local? Or federal, state, and local?

barfo

All

 

[Denny Crane]

State and local? Or federal, state, and local?

barfo

Let's just consider the feds for now. But I wonder what you mean by "let the Bush tax cuts expire" and " I don't see why I'd have the right to impose what I think is good on the rest of you."

A graph to help you along in your thinking:

I used $13.4T as GDP and 20% as the govt's take to come up with the 33% hike on everything to reach that 27% figure to pay for a $3.6T budget.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'll even throw you a bone, barfo. If it were up to me, I'd say it's fair that the lowest 1/2 of income earners pay $0 in taxes.

 

[barfo]

But I wonder what you mean by "let the Bush tax cuts expire" and " I don't see why I'd have the right to impose what I think is good on the rest of you."

What is confusing about either of those statements? They seem like straightforward, plain English.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

What is confusing about either of those statements? They seem like straightforward, plain English.

barfo

They seem completely contradictory; at odds with one another.

You would impose higher taxes by letting the tax cuts expire, yet you wouldn't impose what you think is good on the rest of us?

 

[barfo]

They seem completely contradictory; at odds with one another.

You would impose higher taxes by letting the tax cuts expire, yet you wouldn't impose what you think is good on the rest of us?

The first statement is about what I think we should do, the second is a statement about what I have the power to do unilaterally. There is no conflict.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

The first statement is about what I think we should do, the second is a statement about what I have the power to do unilaterally. There is no conflict.

barfo

We're talking policy here, barfo. Letting the tax cuts expire is a policy decision that you favor for whatever reason. Is it to stick it to someone else? Is it because you think it's more fair? If it's more fair, then what is ultimately fair is the question.

And I submit that if you raise taxes, you won't generate the revenue required and govt. spending still needs to be cut by close to 1/3rd. What oxe do you gore?

 

[barfo]

We're talking policy here, barfo. Letting the tax cuts expire is a policy decision that you favor for whatever reason. Is it to stick it to someone else? Is it because you think it's more fair? If it's more fair, then what is ultimately fair is the question.

Has nothing to do with fair. Has to do with the graph in that CBO report. We can't afford the tax cuts.

Isn't that why you posted that report? It is the obvious conclusion from the report.

And I submit that if you raise taxes, you won't generate the revenue required and govt. spending still needs to be cut by close to 1/3rd. What oxe do you gore?

You can submit that, but it is quite clear that tax cuts are not some magical route to prosperity. Bush cut taxes and the economy wilted.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

You mean the underlined part, from page 4, right?

Need for Higher Taxes or Less Spending on Government Programs


Another impact of rising debt is that, as government debt
grows, so does the amount of interest the government
pays to its lenders (all else being equal). If policymakers
wished to maintain government benefits and services
while the amount of interest paid grew, tax revenues
would eventually have to rise as well. To the extent that
additional tax revenues were generated by increasing marginal
tax rates, those rates would discourage work and
saving, further reducing output and incomes. Alternatively,
policymakers could choose to offset the rising
interest costs, at least in part, by reductions in benefits
and services.

To be sure, slowing the growth of government debt to
hold down future interest payments would require
increases in taxes or reductions in government benefits
and services anyway. However, earlier action would permit
the changes in policy to be smaller and more gradual,
and it would give people more time to adjust to the
changes—although it would also require more sacrifices
by current generations to benefit future ones.

 

[barfo]

You mean the underlined part, from page 4, right?

Right, I always refer to underlined text as a "graph".

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

 

[Denny Crane]

There's a graph for you. Where's the "hit" you claim we took from cutting taxes?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I have never, and I mean never seen barfo dance so much! Denny, you have him looking like Bo Jangles. Getting a straight answer from a liberal is like getting an OSU football player to not like sheep.

 

[barfo]

There's a graph for you. Where's the "hit" you claim we took from cutting taxes?

Where's a graph for me?

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Maybe the google generated one went away.

 

[barfo]

I have never, and I mean never seen barfo dance so much! Denny, you have him looking like Bo Jangles. Getting a straight answer from a liberal is like getting an OSU football player to not like sheep.

And the cheerleaders come out for smooches.

barfo

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

As for me, a 7% flat tax with no deductions for all people. A 3% federal sales tax wholly dedicated to the debt. A balanced budget. And I would tax all capitol gains at no more than the same 7%.