Lust for Gold

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Denny Crane

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http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/12/opinion/krugman-lust-for-gold.html?_r=0

By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: April 11, 2013

News flash: Recent declines in the price of gold, which is off about 17 percent from its peak, show that this price can go down as well as up. You may consider this an obvious point, but, as an article in The Times on Thursday reports, it has come as a rude shock to many small gold investors, who imagined that they were buying the safest of all assets.

And thereby hangs a tale. One of the central facts about modern America is that everything is political; on the right, in particular, people choose their views about everything, from environmental science to gun safety, to suit their political prejudices. And the remarkable recent rise of “goldbuggism,” in the teeth of all the evidence, shows that this politicization can influence investments as well as voting.

What do I mean by goldbuggism? Not the notion that buying gold sometimes makes sense. Gold has been a very good investment since the early 2000s, and it’s probably not all bubble. One way to think about this is that gold is like a very long-term bond that’s protected from inflation; and actual long-term inflation-protected bonds have also seen big price increases, reflecting a general perception that there aren’t enough alternative good investments.

No, being a goldbug means asserting that gold offers unique security in troubled times; it also means asserting that all would be well if we abolished the Federal Reserve and returned to the good old gold standard, in which the value of the dollar was fixed in terms of gold and that was that. And both forms of goldbuggism soared after 2008.

In the wake of the financial crisis — and to a considerable extent even now — to watch business news on TV, especially on Fox, was to see a lot of talking heads touting gold, not to mention many, many ads from the likes of Goldline. Many Americans were convinced: A third of those polled by Gallup in 2011 declared that gold was the best long-term investment.

At the same time, calls for a return to the gold standard proliferated, and not just among marginal figures. Indeed, the 2012 Republican platform effectively demanded a return to gold, calling for a commission to “investigate possible ways to set a fixed value for the dollar” (which it took as self-evidently desirable), and making it clear that the preferred route involved a “metallic basis” for the currency.

So the financial crisis of 2008 brought a surge in gold fever (although that surge has abated a bit since 2011). But why?

After all, historically, gold has been anything but a safe investment. Sometimes it yields big gains, as it did in the late 1970s and again between 2001 and 2011. But that 1970s run-up was followed by an epic plunge, with the real value of gold falling by more than two-thirds.

Meanwhile, the modern world’s closest equivalent to the classical gold standard is the euro, which puts European countries back under more or less the same constraints they faced when gold ruled. It’s true that the European Central Bank can print money if it chooses to, but individual countries, like nations on the gold standard, can’t. And who would hold up these countries’ recent experience as an example of something we’d like to emulate?

So how can we rationalize the modern goldbug position? Basically, it depends on the claim that runaway inflation is just around the corner.

Why have so many people found this claim persuasive? John Maynard Keynes famously dismissed the gold standard as a “barbarous relic,” noting the absurdity of yoking the fortunes of a modern industrial society to the supply of a decorative metal. But he also acknowledged that “gold has become part of the apparatus of conservatism and is one of the matters which we cannot expect to see handled without prejudice.”

And so it remains to this day. Conservative-minded people tend to support a gold standard — and to buy gold — because they’re very easily persuaded that “fiat money,” money created on a discretionary basis in an attempt to stabilize the economy, is really just part of the larger plot to take away their hard-earned wealth and give it to you-know-who.

But the runaway inflation that was supposed to follow reckless money-printing — inflation that the usual suspects have been declaring imminent for four years and more — keeps not happening. For a while, rising gold prices helped create some credibility for the goldbugs even as their predictions about everything else proved wrong, but now gold as an investment has turned sour, too. So will we be seeing prominent goldbugs change their views, or at least lose a lot of their followers?

I wouldn’t bet on it. In modern America, as I suggested at the beginning, everything is political; and goldbuggism, which fits so perfectly with common political prejudices, will probably continue to flourish no matter how wrong it proves.
 
He just doesn't get it, does he.

There is inflation. Look at the price of bread or milk or gasoline.

latest_numbers_APU0000709112_2003_2013_all_period_M02_data.gif

Price of Milk.

And the reason to own gold is because people like Krugman running the economy means that in the near future, you'll want the actual gold to maybe trade for a loaf of bread.
 
First, he's using the CPI which is a poor measure of inflation. Its just like the government's funny accounting of unemployment statistics. not a real snapshot of what's happening.

The real inflation won't happen until the easing stops and interest rates rise.

Gold is a good investment if a nation is going a financial crisis, something that has not really happened since government went in and starting printing money. However, when this stops, Gold will hold its value versus the US Currency as the dollar gets nuked. Basically what's backing the US Currency is the FED. Investors have confidence in the dollar because they know that the government will step in and just print more money if things start turning bad. Once the government stops this, the dollar will be worthless.
 
yeah, gold is a terrible fucking investment.

8642603783_2729af1007_z.jpg
 
What he fails to understand is the price of Gold is a worldwide normality. If the dollar goes to shit; gold will still hold value
 
^^^ Check it out. The price of gold causes global warming!
 
A picture of Mags' basement

gold-bars_5.jpg
 
And people on the Left wonder why so many consider Carter and Obama among the worst US Presidents in history.

Just look what happened to gold under their leadership.
 
And people on the Left wonder why so many consider Carter and Obama among the worst US Presidents in history.

Just look what happened to gold under their leadership.

Whoever considers Obama the worst US president in history must not have much influence since he was re-elected by the voting majority and ran away with the electoral vote.
 
Whoever considers Obama the worst US president in history must not have much influence since he was re-elected by the voting majority and ran away with the electoral vote.

He didn't run away with the electoral vote, nor the popular vote.

The media made "binders of women" a more important issue than Obama's record on anything.

2008 vs. McCain (Red is republican, blue is democrat)

2008.jpg


2012 vs. Romney (33 less electoral votes than in 2008, 1.8% less popular vote than in 2008)

2012.jpg


Compare, say to Reagan who actually did run away with the elctoral vote (he won the popular vote 58.8 to 40.6).

1984.jpg
 
He didn't run away with the electoral vote, nor the popular vote.

The media made "binders of women" a more important issue than Obama's record on anything.

Like I said, whatever thinking was out there that Obama is the worst president in history was not very influencial.

The election didn't seem very close to me and many were predicting something closer than final result of 332-206.
 
Like I said, whatever thinking was out there that Obama is the worst president in history was not very influencial.

The election didn't seem very close to me and many were predicting something closer than final result of 332-206.

Your method of deciding if he's a good president is a pretty bogus one.

I'd judge him by years of unemployment over 8%. By the cost of milk. By the cost of gas. By the unemployment among minorities. By the poverty rate. By the debt he's racked up. By the stupidity of his ideas. By the failure of his programs based upon his own promised results.

&c
 
Your method of deciding if he's a good president is a pretty bogus one.

I'd judge him by years of unemployment over 8%. By the cost of milk. By the cost of gas. By the unemployment among minorities. By the poverty rate. By the debt he's racked up. By the stupidity of his ideas. By the failure of his programs based upon his own promised results.

&c

I've never said he was a good president or that the election results show that.

I said that if people think he was the worst president in history . . . they weren't influential. I used the election results to support that because I doubt people would vote for Obama if they believed that he was the worst president in history and he won both the majority vote and the electoral vote.
 
But the runaway inflation that was supposed to follow reckless money-printing — inflation that the usual suspects have been declaring imminent for four years and more — keeps not happening.

Of course it isn't happening, because the things that are rising (gas/food/Etc.) aren't captured in the inflation statistics.

Does this idiot Krugman really believe the value of the stock market right now? You want to talk about inflation ... once this next market bubble pops, watch out. I also like how Krugman talks about 'politics'. He's as political of a hack as there is.
 
I've never said he was a good president or that the election results show that.

I said that if people think he was the worst president in history . . . they weren't influential. I used the election results to support that because I doubt people would vote for Obama if they believed that he was the worst president in history and he won both the majority vote and the electoral vote.

You act as if you didn't know that a large chunk of voters are uniformed morons.

I completely reject your point that because Obama won again, that somehow informs this conversation.

It does not.
 
Gold will be confiscated by the government, along with your guns.
 
You act as if you didn't know that a large chunk of voters are uniformed morons.

I completely reject your point that because Obama won again, that somehow informs this conversation.

It does not.

Whatever man. Reject what you want.

You made some baseless claim about "so many" feeling Obama is the worst president in the US and that I guess the left wonders why. Well I completely reject your statement as being accurate or useful to this thread. It isn't.
 
And people on the Left wonder why so many consider Carter and Obama among the worst US Presidents in history.

Just look what happened to gold under their leadership.

Terrible performance. They abrogated their responsibility to make you money on gold. Sure, they made you rich from your stocks, but we're talking about gold.
 
Whatever man. Reject what you want.

You made some baseless claim about "so many" feeling Obama is the worst president in the US and that I guess the left wonders why. Well I completely reject your statement as being accurate or useful to this thread. It isn't.

Who cares, Populism is stupid and economically ignorant.
 
Of course it isn't happening, because the things that are rising (gas/food/Etc.) aren't captured in the inflation statistics.

Does this idiot Krugman really believe the value of the stock market right now? You want to talk about inflation ... once this next market bubble pops, watch out. I also like how Krugman talks about 'politics'. He's as political of a hack as there is.

You say that high inflation is already here, but isn't captured by inflation statistics. You obviously don't know that when there's high inflation, everyone knows. It can't be hidden by some flaw in measurement.

You claim that economists do not include basic necessities in their measures of inflation. Do you think they just forgot? Good thing you're here to remind them.

Or are you just being a hack, calling someone a hack. As if we don't know.
 
You say that high inflation is already here, but isn't captured by inflation statistics. You obviously don't know that when there's high inflation, everyone knows. It can't be hidden by some flaw in measurement.

You claim that economists do not include basic necessities in their measures of inflation. Do you think they just forgot? Good thing you're here to remind them.

Or are you just being a hack, calling someone a hack. As if we don't know.

I think they measure inflation through a number of calculations. The one they're reporting most is the one most favorable to the current administration.

If a loaf of bread cost $1 when Obama took office but is now $5, obviously people are affected aversely. If you average in the cost of mortgage payments, which only affect property owners, the weighted average of the two costs might be marginally higher instead of 5x.
 
And what do you know?

3.1% inflation is actually pretty high - especially when the banks are paying you < 1% on your savings account.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/4...e-u-s-be-as-insolvent-as-greece/category_list

CBS News recently reported that the rate of inflation, as calculated by the American Institute for Economic Research (AIER), clocked in at a whopping 8% over the past year. This number is in stark contrast to the relatively modest inflation rate of 3.1% being reported by the government’s Bureau of Labor Statistics.

The AIER calculates what they refer to as an Every Day Price Index (EPI). The EPI only looks at the cost of goods the average household buys every month and factors in only those costs which are subject to price fluctuation. For example, mortgages are typically stable over the course of a year so those numbers are ignored. They wouldn’t change unless a person moves or refinances, so they don’t act as a good measure of inflation from month to month.

Another measure of inflation comes from John Williams’ Shadow Stats. Williams calculates the consumer price index (CPI) using the same model as the government did prior to 1990. Williams also calculates the CPI using the same model as the government did prior to 1980. In each case, the government changed the way it calculated inflation in order to give the appearance of less inflation.

If we calculate the inflation rate the exact same way the government did prior to 1990, the inflation rate is averaging around 6.5%, which is basically double the official rate. However, if we measure inflation the same way the government did back prior to 1980, the inflation rate clocks in at a mind-numbing 11%.
 

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