Marvin Williams available in S&T for cap space?

[HurraKane212]

...

 

[Reep]

He was and is a classic 3/4 tweener. He's too slow to be a good three, and too small and soft to be a four. I really hope they don't go after him.

 

[Nikolokolus]

http://www.boston.com/sports/basket...kings_hope_lottery_will_be_the_ticket/?page=2

Looking at 82games.com, he doesn't seem to be a great defender. He seems to do well as a backup PF though and would be an upgrade over both Martell at the 3 and Outlaw at the backup PF.

Young, improving, athletic, fits the core, I'd rather have Childress from ATL, and I'd rather have Wallace or Butler, but barring those, Marvin Williams might be a nice piece. I'll have to do more research on him, but he could be an affordable backup to the 3 and 4, and maybe we could wrangle a pick or TE out of the deal, maybe swap the 24th for the 19th pick to help ATL lower their $ even more, then swing a deal from 19 w/someone else to move on up and get whomever we want outside of the top 2. Marvin Williams + insert whomever we want out of top 2, wouldn't be a bad draft day. It's not the huge splash everyone is looking for, but it seems solid, especially if we are able to retain pieces like Outlaw, Blake, and Webster, thus enabling us to swing yet another deal.

As a side note, ATL might like Sergio as well.

Childress is the only small forward Atlanta has rights to that I'd be interested in and considering the rather acrimonious split he had with them last year (opting for Greece instead of taking the QO) I'm guessing Chill is in no great hurry to rejoin the Hawks this season -- you have to think they'd be open to sign and trades.

Having said that, as much as I like Childress, I'm not sure where he fits in unless Travis and Webster are moved. And if you move both of them you're outside shooting could take a serious hit, unless you decided to make him a flex forward and play him at both the 3 and the 4 like Travis (which JC has the length, rebounding ability and inside game to do) and make sure shooters are on the court with him all times to help space the floor.

I think if I had my way I'd rather just see a legit veteran banger added to the roster (like McDyess, et al.), the point guard position addressed this off-season and leave the small forward rotation relatively untouched with Nicolas and Webster splitting time ... with Outlaw moved in this scenario to open up floor time for the new backup 4.

 

[Masbee]

http://www.boston.com/sports/basket...kings_hope_lottery_will_be_the_ticket/?page=2

Looking at 82games.com, he doesn't seem to be a great defender. He seems to do well as a backup PF though and would be an upgrade over both Martell at the 3 and Outlaw at the backup PF.

Young, improving, athletic, fits the core, I'd rather have Childress from ATL, and I'd rather have Wallace or Butler, but barring those, Marvin Williams might be a nice piece. I'll have to do more research on him, but he could be an affordable backup to the 3 and 4, and maybe we could wrangle a pick or TE out of the deal, maybe swap the 24th for the 19th pick to help ATL lower their $ even more, then swing a deal from 19 w/someone else to move on up and get whomever we want outside of the top 2. Marvin Williams + insert whomever we want out of top 2, wouldn't be a bad draft day. It's not the huge splash everyone is looking for, but it seems solid, especially if we are able to retain pieces like Outlaw, Blake, and Webster, thus enabling us to swing yet another deal.

As a side note, ATL might like Sergio as well.

MW is not the backup PF that is a banger, hustler type that most of this boards - and Brandon Roy - are asking for.

Williams is too much like Outlaw I think.

 

[Masbee]

Childress is the only small forward Atlanta has rights to that I'd be interested in and considering the rather acrimonious split he had with them last year (opting for Greece instead of taking the QO) I'm guessing Chill is in no great hurry to rejoin the Hawks this season -- you have to think they'd be open to sign and trades.

Having said that, as much as I like Childress, I'm not sure where he fits in unless Travis and Webster are moved. And if you move both of them you're outside shooting could take a serious hit, unless you decided to make him a flex forward and play him at both the 3 and the 4 like Travis (which JC has the length, rebounding ability and inside game to do) and make sure shooters are on the court with him all times to help space the floor.

I think if I had my way I'd rather just see a legit veteran banger added to the roster (like McDyess, et al.), the point guard position addressed this off-season and leave the small forward rotation relatively untouched with Nicolas and Webster splitting time ... with Outlaw moved in this scenario to open up floor time for the new backup 4.

Speaking of Flex Forwards. You know who is a real solid Flex Forward?

Gerald Wallace.

I agree that we should probably use our cap space/players to trade to try to get an upgrade at PG first.

But, what if that plan flames out?

Andre Miller signs with someone else.
Bibby (I don't want him anyway) resigns with the Hawks.
Sessions resigns with Milwaukee.
Etc.

What if we then use the cap space to do a lopsided trade for GW? Outlaw for GW straight up.

We get GW, and he can play backup 4. Then we can use our pick on a rookie backup 4 and/or bring over Freeland, etc. If any of them pan out, we limit Wallace's 4 minutes except when the team wants to go small. If they don't work out, we use the MLE the next season to fill the backup 4 role.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Speaking of Flex Forwards. You know who is a real solid Flex Forward?

Gerald Wallace.

I agree that we should probably use our cap space/players to trade to try to get an upgrade at PG first.

But, what if that plan flames out?

Andre Miller signs with someone else.
Bibby (I don't want him anyway) resigns with the Hawks.
Sessions resigns with Milwaukee.
Etc.

What if we then use the cap space to do a lopsided trade for GW? Outlaw for GW straight up.

We get GW, and he can play backup 4. Then we can use our pick on a rookie backup 4 and/or bring over Freeland, etc. If any of them pan out, we limit Wallace's 4 minutes except when the team wants to go small. If they don't work out, we use the MLE the next season to fill the backup 4 role.

Of course you don't put all of your eggs in one basket. If the plan to add an impact point guard fails having a contingency to add Gerald Wallace or Josh Childress is one helluva Plan B and either GW or JC have some real assets they could bring to this team (Wallace is a freak athlete and physical player, and Childress is a great all-around player with a good nose for rebounds and playing smart).

Who knows how available Wallace really is (or any body else for that matter), but I think it's pretty clear this team still needs a couple of more impact/reliable players at the one, three, or backup four spots

 

[Ed O]

It always depends on what else is out there, of course, but I would love to add Marvin Williams. He's still young (23 in June) and his PER has been on the upswing the last few years. I'm pretty confident we'd be able to use him as a new and improved (and younger) Travis Outlaw, backing up both forward spots depending on matchups.

Ed O.

 

[Minstrel]

Yeah, Marvin Williams isn't at the top of my desired free agent targets, but he'd make a solid addition. He's no star, but he's exactly the kind of young, good, versatile player that can be a major role-player for a championship-caliber team.

 

[hasoos]

Yeah, Marvin Williams isn't at the top of my desired free agent targets, but he'd make a solid addition. He's no star, but he's exactly the kind of young, good, versatile player that can be a major role-player for a championship-caliber team.

Versatile= able to play multiple positions well.

Tweener=able to play multiple positions, but none of them at a high level.

Williams = Tweener

Outlaw=Tweener

So, lets replace a tweener, with a tweener, and keep repeating the mistakes of the past?

 

[Minstrel]

Versatile= able to play multiple positions well.

Tweener=able to play multiple positions, but none of them at a high level.

Williams = Tweener

Outlaw=Tweener

So, lets replace a tweener, with a tweener, and keep repeating the mistakes of the past?

Williams is reasonably good at small forward and power forward. If he were excellent at either or both, he'd be a star or near-star. The idea that you must be really good or you're basically useless is silly. Williams, for a reserve, is versatile. A player who's decent at two positions is more versatile than a player who's decent at one.

Yes, Portland would be replacing one 'tweener with another if they replaced Outlaw with Williams. Williams is a superior one, though. A better defender, a more efficient scorer, slightly better rebounder, bigger body against power forwards while still being extremely athletic, smarter on the floor. Replacing one player with a better one makes the team better.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Speaking of Flex Forwards. You know who is a real solid Flex Forward?

Gerald Wallace.

I agree that we should probably use our cap space/players to trade to try to get an upgrade at PG first.

Hell yeah! I'd LOVE to get Gerald Wallace. He's still reasonably young (turns 27 this summer), is a legit 3rd scorer and a very good defender.

My perfect summer:

1.) Sign Andre Miller to a reasonable (or even slightly unreasonable) contract

2.) Trade for Gerald Wallace

3.) Sign veteran back-up PF using part of MLE

or

3a.) move up in the draft (possibly get the Phoenix pick) and pick DeJuan Blair.

I'd be happy if ONE of these things happened. I'd be thrilled if TWO of them happened. I'd be absolutely ecstatic if all THREE happened.

We have cap space, young players on cheap contracts, a trade exception, our full MLE, a 1st round pick and a buttload of 2nd round picks.

I wouldn't give up any of these players:

Roy,
Aldridge
Oden
Przybilla

I'd be VERY reluctant to give up:
Batum
Rudy
Bayless

I would not be opposed to trading:
Webster
Blake

I'd gladly give up:
Outlaw
Sergio
Frye (as part of a sign-n-trade if anyone wants him)
Shavlik
Ruffin

Webster and Outlaw are both young and affordable. Blake is a steady, if unspectacular PG. He's also cheap if the Blazers exercise their team option So...

Use cap space to go after Miller.

Trade some combination of players, plus picks, plus cash, plus trade exception to Charlotte for Wallace. Charlotte is perpetually financially challenged. Wallace has four years and over $40 million left on his contract. If the Blazers could get him for Outlaw, Webster $3 million in cash and a handful of 2nd round picks, it would save Charlotte a ton of money. I'd even thow in Blake and the trade exception and take back a bad contract (like Radmanovic or Diop) to save the Bobcats even more money.

Use all, or part of the MLE to sign one of the MANY veteran PFs that will be free agents this summer

or

Package our 1st round pick, plus cash, plus??? to move up and pick Blair.

Yeah, I'm dreaming. It's that time of year. 1 and 3 certainly seem possible. Miller would be a good fit in Portland, he's a UFA and we have cap space. With so many veteran PFs crowding the free agent market this summer, it's certianly a buyer's market. A lot of steady, proven, experienced power forwards will be looking for new teams and new paychecks. The Blazers should be able to get somebody very decent to back-up Aldridge for the MLE (or less).

Getting Wallace is a stretch. It depends on how desparate Charlotte is to shed long term salary obligations.

Should be an interesting summer.

BNM

 

[oldmangrouch]

When you are trying to upgrade a team, each step on the ladder gets harder. Sometimes, incremental improvements are all that are available. It is better to make a "minor" upgrade, than to just sit around watching your toenails grow.

Replacing Outlaw/Webster with Williams would be an upgrade. As long as you don't over-pay, why would you turn it down? It doesn't even make the team older...something some folks seem to have a phobia about.

 

[Masbee]

When you are trying to upgrade a team, each step on the ladder gets harder. Sometimes, incremental improvements are all that are available. It is better to make a "minor" upgrade, than to just sit around watching your toenails grow.

Replacing Outlaw/Webster with Williams would be an upgrade. As long as you don't over-pay, why would you turn it down? It doesn't even make the team older...something some folks seem to have a phobia about.

Well yeah, I suppose Williams might be better than Outlaw. And, if that is all that is out there, you give it a look.

But, I would hope that Williams isn't even on the team's priority list right now.

Williams - as a distraction "hey, at least he is a bit better than Outlaw" - is an opportunity cost I don't want to pay. We have cap space this one time for the next few years. We have some tradeable assets that we might not have next year. Try to get a big bang with it. In later years we can look for minor upgrades.

I want: Focus on upgrade at PG. Focus on upgrade at SF. Focus on quality veteran help. Focus on banger backup PF. Williams is none of those things.

 

[Masbee]

Hell yeah! I'd LOVE to get Gerald Wallace. He's still reasonably young (turns 27 this summer), is a legit 3rd scorer and a very good defender.

My perfect summer:

1.) Sign Andre Miller to a reasonable (or even slightly unreasonable) contract

2.) Trade for Gerald Wallace

3.) Sign veteran back-up PF using part of MLE

If the Blazers make the required moves in order to be under the cap, they will lose their MLE an LLE. A team can't both be under the cap and have an MLE the same summer.

So, if the team clears room to sign Miller free and clear (no sign and trade), they won't have an MLE to use.

And, if they were to somehow induce Charlotte to let go of Wallace, it would likely require all our trade bait, leaving us short of trade bait to be able to sign a banger PF.

However, if Paul Allen is willing to take a bad contract from Charlotte's, maybe KP would have enough trade bait left to swing a trade for a worthwhile veteran backup PF.

If not, the team could wait to fill that hole with 2010's MLE.

The team could hold a wide open camp for the right to be Aldridge's backup. Keep Shavlik Randolph around. Bring over Freeland. Use a draft pick on a longshot. Bring in a CBA guy. Undrafted guy. Try to attract as many veteran Power Forwards as you can knowing that the prize is an NBA minimum contract. Chances are one guy looks ok. Hopefully a vet. If not, we go small with Gerald Wallace as the backup PF. Oden and Wallace combined form a decent enough front line.

 

[BTOWN_HUSTLA]

give me Josh Smith.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

I like his potential. I'd think if you can replace Outlaw with Williams for basically nothing, you do it.

I remember hearing an interview with Chad Ford prior to the 05 draft saying Marvin, at the time, was hoping the Blazers would trade up to draft him. He's a north west guy and maybe a change of scenery to his home territory would do him good.

 

[Boob-No-More]

If the Blazers make the required moves in order to be under the cap, they will lose their MLE an LLE. A team can't both be under the cap and have an MLE the same summer.

So, if the team clears room to sign Miller free and clear (no sign and trade), they won't have an MLE to use.

Oops, brain fart. I forgot that teams under the cap don't get the MLE.

Still, if we can sign Miller with cap space and work some kind of trade with Charlotte, there could still be other ways to get a veteran PF. As you mentioned, the vet's min, or perhaps a sign-and-trade with one of the many teams that will be losing one of these veteran PFs to free agency this summer. Rather than let someone walk for nothing, a team might be interested in a sign-and-trade that helps both teams.

Or, as a last resort, get a banger through the draft.

BNM