(Merged) Five deals that should happen at the trade deadline!

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Re: Five deals that should happen at the trade deadline!

He is a big part of our team, like it or not.
Highest percentage of any player making game winning shots with at least 5 attempts, gets along with everyone, keeps us loose, and our longest tenured player.
We would be incredible stupid to trade him.
 
Re: Five deals that should happen at the trade deadline!

Gerald Wallace = Please
Caron Butler = Pretty Please, with Sergio sauce sprinkled on top.
 
Re: Five deals that should happen at the trade deadline!

keep in mind that as of the summer league no one thought batum would be on the blazers active roster let alone a starter. he'll only get better. i think we should keep him. sergio can go. frye can go, and outlaw or webster need to go, but i'd keep batum for now.
 
Re: Five deals that should happen at the trade deadline!

keep in mind that as of the summer league no one thought batum would be on the blazers active roster let alone a starter. he'll only get better. i think we should keep him. sergio can go. frye can go, and outlaw or webster need to go, but i'd keep batum for now.

Even if that was a deal breaker? And keeping Batum meant no Caron Butler or Gerald Wallace? Batum is a very nice prospect, but I'm tired of potential, if I can get a fringe All-Star at the 3 for him I think you would be crazy not to do it
 
Re: Five deals that should happen at the trade deadline!

Even if that was a deal breaker? And keeping Batum meant no Caron Butler or Gerald Wallace? Batum is a very nice prospect, but I'm tired of potential, if I can get a fringe All-Star at the 3 for him I think you would be crazy not to do it

Agreed. Butler for Batum? I sign off on that trade.

barfo
 
Re: Five deals that should happen at the trade deadline!

I like Batum but I would do that deal. We add another scorer and clear minutes for Bayless to play.
 
Re: Five deals that should happen at the trade deadline!

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for any one of the two. I think we win the division this year with this upgrade!!!

go Blazers!!!!
 
Re: Five deals that should happen at the trade deadline!

If you can get Butler you do it!!! take either webster or batum with sergio and give me butler!!! If we get butler we are looking at a showdown with the lakers in the WCF
 
Re: Five deals that should happen at the trade deadline!

Wow, you'll do anything not to give up Outlaw.

Yup yup.

Outlaw will probably be the 1st one moved imo. He's movable and decent.
 
Re: Five deals that should happen at the trade deadline!

I'd do this trade... but I'd like to swtich Batum with Webster or even Outlaw since Wallace can also play backup 4 which can help make Outlaw expendable. But Outlaw is still a big part of this team and the chemistry so I'd like to keep him.

I'd take either Butler or Wallace... Butler is the better player, Wallace is the better fit. I wouldn't really give up Bayless for either, but i'd give up anyone outside the big 3 and Bayless for 'em.
 
Re: Five deals that should happen at the trade deadline!

problem with this story/link.... its just what this guy thinks would work for us. theres no mention that we are really talking to either team. just guesses from the writer or what looks nice on our roster.
 
Re: Five deals that should happen at the trade deadline!

Reading the article, If I were the Raptors I'd take that deal and run.

With the threat of Bosh leaving next summer, grabbing a beast like Biedrins and a nice prospect like Randolph, a solid big in Turiaf and a pick - that's a great package.
 
Re: Five deals that should happen at the trade deadline!

Reading the article, If I were the Raptors I'd take that deal and run.

With the threat of Bosh leaving next summer, grabbing a beast like Biedrins and a nice prospect like Randolph, a solid big in Turiaf and a pick - that's a great package.

I'd agree, but as a Raptors fan, I'd like to check salaries. Plus, Bargnani has proved that he can be a 20 a night guy. I like it but most might not.
 
Re: Five deals that should happen at the trade deadline!

I really, really like Crash, and I'd do that type of deal for him in a minute (especially if we give them Webster instead of Batum).

However, Butler gives us something wonderful - Roy insurance. Every time Roy falls down, the whole state of Oregon
takes a deep breath. With Butler, we could say "you got next", and actually give Roy a few days when he needs it.
He can also hit the 3 when he's in with Roy.

Basically, Crash would be super awesome, Butler would be totally ridiculous. However, my guess is that we would have to
give up Bayless to get Butler.
 
Don't trade Batum!

I know Chad Ford just pulls stuff out of his arse, but I see that he has Batum as a "throw-in" in his projected Wallace trade. I don't think so. The only way I wouldn't mind us trading Batum is if we get Chris Paul, Deron Williams or POSSIBLY Rajon Rondo in return. As that isn't happening, Batum better be staying put, I tell you what.
 
Re: Don't trade Batum!

sums up the homerism on this board

yah lets keep a guy who cant make a jumper to save his life and pass n an allstar.

thats the general thinking on this board.
 
Re: Don't trade Batum!

So Batum moving is a deal breaker, even if he was the linchpin in a deal that brought back Gerald Wallace or Caron Butler?

I really like Batum's upside, and would love to keep him, but I don't think he should be a deal breaker.
 
Re: Don't trade Batum!

I love Batum and his potential for being our future SF but if we have to include him in a trade for either Butler or Wallace I wouldn't hesitate at all. You have to give up something to get something that will improve your team. I feel the same way about Bayless and even more so but I would have to probably even include him for Butler if that is the only way to get him but I would try everything possible to get the trade done without Bayless.
 
Re: Don't trade Batum!

I think we've been so spoiled with some of our recent trading history that we expect to get just about anyone for pocket change... =)
 
Re: Don't trade Batum!

Batum is not a deal breaker, but earlier reports were that they really want Webster, which is fine for me.

Wallace + Batum = SF set for 10 years!
 
Re: Don't trade Batum!

Upside and potential are over valued to an insane extent. Sure Batum may very well be good someday, but the smart money is on him always being a marginal player. Portland has had many, many players over the years that seemed like they would end up being Hall of Fame level guys. Only one actually was. The rest had careers cut short due to injuries, and/or attitude.

Bonzi Wells is an excellent example of this. Remember his first couple of seasons when he seemed like he was unstoppable? As it turned out, the only player who could stop Bonzi was Bonzi. And thats exactly what he did.

Dave at BlazersEdge made a good point at the beginning of the season. The best teams are the ones with the least questions. Batum is going to have question marks around him for at least the next two years, if not longer. Don't we already have enough players like that? If you can get a proven guy in the league for a guy that "might" be good someday, you do it.

Stop letting the Ghost of Jermain O'Neil haunt you.
 
We don't know how good either of Wallace or Butler will be for Portland. It's not enough that they score a lot - the team has to benefit. I worry that (a) Larry Brown has been trying to unload Wallace since he got there, and (b) the Wiz are so crappy even when Butler plays.

It's entirely possible either could plug in instantly and make the team much better. But if you think you know that from their performances with other teams, you're fooling yourself. Remember when the Lakers had Cedric Ceballos, a near 20ppg scorer, and traded him to the Suns for Robert Horry, who was glued to the bench (throwing a towel at your coach might do that)? That was obviously a trade that was going to help... the Lakers. Horry's game was much better suited to making the good players that the Lakers had better. Do Wallace or Butler do that? I'm not sure. Whereas Batum really does work well with the players we have, and he's only 20. He's more skilled at that age than either of the other two (certainly than Wallace - he may already be a better ball-handler and defender than Wallace, and I'll bet he has a better grasp of the game).

So yes, it would be a deal-breaker for me. Mainly because I'm not that wowed by either of those guys - for us. To be a good SF for this team the two main skills needed are defense and 3 point %. I'm not sure that's the strength of either of those players. I don't want to bring in someone who just takes away shots from Oden, Aldridge or Roy. I think they're taking fewer shots than they should already (especially Oden).

Look at those guys objectively:
Wallace: an energy player, can take you off the dribble, gets steals and rebounds - the kind of player you love when he comes off the bench. If he's one of your better players then you are the Bobcats. Can't shoot.

Butler: a much better all-round player, but has looked a lot better when he's been the major scorer. Call this the John Salmons effect. We want someone who will plug the gaps and make what we have better, not take away from what we have. I quote:

(“Someone created the box score,” Morey says, “and he should be shot.”) How many points a player scores, for example, is no true indication of how much he has helped his team. Another example: if you want to know a player’s value as a *rebounder, you need to know not whether he got a rebound but the likelihood of the team getting the rebound when a missed shot enters that player’s zone.

There is a tension, peculiar to basketball, between the interests of the team and the interests of the individual. The game continually tempts the people who play it to do things that are not in the interest of the group. On the baseball field, it would be hard for a player to sacrifice his team’s interest for his own. Baseball is an individual sport masquerading as a team one: by doing what’s best for himself, the player nearly always also does what is best for his team. “There is no way to selfishly get across home plate,” as Morey puts it. “If instead of there being a lineup, I could muscle my way to the plate and hit every single time and damage the efficiency of the team — that would be the analogy. Manny Ramirez can’t take at-bats away from David Ortiz. We had a point guard in Boston who refused to pass the ball to a certain guy.” In football the coach has so much control over who gets the ball that selfishness winds up being self-defeating. The players most famous for being selfish — the Dallas Cowboys’ wide receiver Terrell Owens, for instance — are usually not so much selfish as attention seeking. Their sins tend to occur off the field.

It is in basketball where the problems are most likely to be in the game — where the player, in his play, faces choices between maximizing his own perceived self-interest and winning. The choices are sufficiently complex that there is a fair chance he doesn’t fully grasp that he is making them.
 
Re: Don't trade Batum!

Upside and potential are over valued to an insane extent.

Agreed.

Sure Batum may very well be good someday, but the smart money is on him always being a marginal player.

That certainly doesn't follow, unless you mean that the majority of NBA players are going to be marginal players, but that would have you saying the smart money is that, say, Derek Rose will be a marginal player.

Portland has had many, many players over the years that seemed like they would end up being Hall of Fame level guys.

Not to me. Certainly not as rookies. I never thought Telfair would do squat, for example, and we haven't really had many high profile rookies until the current administration.

Only one actually was. The rest had careers cut short due to injuries, and/or attitude.

What period are we talking? And why are we only talking about "hall of fame players". Are you telling me you think Wallace or Butler are going to be that? Because if so, one of us is delusional and it isn't me.

Bonzi Wells is an excellent example of this. Remember his first couple of seasons when he seemed like he was unstoppable?

No, because he didn't. He always had holes in his game, and he always had attitude problems. How is he relevantly similar to Batum?

As it turned out, the only player who could stop Bonzi was Bonzi. And thats exactly what he did.

Is this the plot of a "Behind the Music" episode?

Dave at BlazersEdge made a good point at the beginning of the season. The best teams are the ones with the least questions.

That's vague enough to be meaningless. And if it has any meaning, it's false. The Celtics had huge question marks at PG and C last year.

Batum is going to have question marks around him for at least the next two years, if not longer.

He's being stalked by MIXUM!?

Don't we already have enough players like that?

You mean, like Greg Oden? Let's ditch him for a known commodity!
If you're only going to look at one rather dubious attribute, then yes. But Batum is more advanced in many respects than our more established players. He's arguably our best perimeter defender. He's got a better grip of the game than Outlaw. He's got more flying-out-of-nowhere blocks than any other Blazer. He's got positive attributes that none of our other players have. There's a reason he's starting: it's not simple charity. And he's 20 years old. What 20 year old doesn't have some "questions"? Does that mean no team should have 20 year olds?

If you can get a proven guy in the league for a guy that "might" be good someday, you do it.

Depends what they've proven. Have they proven they can be good for this team? To do that they would have to have played a similar role to what they will need to do here, and they will have to have improved the team they've played for. I don't think either is true. A lot of players can "prove" they can put up a ton of points for crappy teams. Corey Maggette, for example. I certainly wouldn't trade for him, no matter how cheaply. And didn't we just get rid of Zach Randolph? He's proven he can score AND rebound! Get him back immediately!

Stop letting the Ghost of Jermain O'Neil haunt you.

Who he?
I never rated Jermaine O'Neal, except by comparison with Shawn Kemp. Arvydas Sabonis didn't think much of Jermaine, and that was good enough for me.
 

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