Murder, or, Self Defense

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Just goes to show how far left this country has gone, fucking criminals have more rights than the average citizen. I do believe that the come back and shoot the kid five times was teetering on the brink, but for the average guy, pump up on adrenalin, it would be pretty easy to do . I might see an argument for man slaughter, but friggen life in prison is flat out a joke
 
if the guy was clearly incapacitated, and the guy calmly pumped 5 extra rounds into him, hes a fucking maniac. the first shot was self defense, he stops there and hes a hero.
 
Honestly, I think it was murder.

I'm a big believer in "anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice in the chest and once in the head". If he would've done that initially, then I have no problem with it. Don't attempt armed robbery. But what bothers me is that he didn't disarm the kid...he didn't call the police and say he had shot a guy who attempted armed robbery...he got another gun and pumped 5 more shots into him. If you didn't do it initially, it's murder when you go back for Round Two.
 
I probably would have let him walk. Fuck the robbers.
 
if the guy was clearly incapacitated, and the guy calmly pumped 5 extra rounds into him, hes a fucking maniac. the first shot was self defense, he stops there and hes a hero.

yeah..but the robber was out of camera. The video is rather damning, but hey, was the kid trying to aim his gun? Did he act in a manor the may have been interpreted as threatening? you know if this had been a cop 1) he would have shot more than once to begin with, 2) He would have been able to go the self defense route. Most of us do not know how to posture the scene and situation to help ourselves in a matter like this.
 
yeah..but the robber was out of camera. The video is rather damning, but hey, was the kid trying to aim his gun? Did he act in a manor the may have been interpreted as threatening? you know if this had been a cop 1) he would have shot more than once to begin with, 2) He would have been able to go the self defense route. Most of us do not know how to posture the scene and situation to help ourselves in a matter like this.

all of these are fine questions for his defense to bring up, good luck to them lol
 
Honestly, I think it was murder.

I'm a big believer in "anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice in the chest and once in the head". If he would've done that initially, then I have no problem with it. Don't attempt armed robbery. But what bothers me is that he didn't disarm the kid...he didn't call the police and say he had shot a guy who attempted armed robbery...he got another gun and pumped 5 more shots into him. If you didn't do it initially, it's murder when you go back for Round Two.

He was first shot in the head and went down. Fine so far. Then, as he was off camera, the man testified the kid was moving to the point he still posed a threat. This is a high adrenalin situation where it's hard to think straight. So he finishes the robber off. Too bad for the armed robber. He was clearly willing to take their lives (as must be supposed when a robber is armed) and instead he lost his. Too bad, huh.

I hope he's pardoned by the Governor. I think he deserves it.

Let me put it this way... if an armed intruder enters my house I'm flat out killing him any way I possibly can and I don't care if I disarm him (or her if he gets the Sam Adams transgender surgery with out tax dollars plan) or not. I don;t want to injure them and have them come back on me in some drug induced rage at a later time. By the mere fact they are armed robbers, once they enter your premises or dwelling they forfeit their right to live unless the situation is completely defused.

Several years ago in Portland a man saw a kid breaking into his car. He grabbed a gun, left his house, trapped the kid in an alley and then killed him. The grand jury called it self defense. Now, I will disagree with that, but not this.
 
Let me put it this way... if an armed intruder enters my house I'm flat out killing him any way I possibly can and I don't care if I disarm him (or her if he gets the Sam Adams transgender surgery with out tax dollars plan) or not. .

so you would kill an unarmed woman that posed no immediate threat to you? hmmmm kinda crazy bro, too much war games for you
 
so you would kill an unarmed woman that posed no immediate threat to you? hmmmm kinda crazy bro, too much war games for you

No, silly, I said "armed" intruder- male or female. Of course, if it's a female and if she's kinda cute we might be able to negotiate the point.
 
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so you would kill an unarmed woman that posed no immediate threat to you? hmmmm kinda crazy bro, too much war games for you

If I actually knew the intruder was unarmed I still might waste them. It depends on whether or not I feel they are a direct threat to me.
 
lol, its coo, ill cap a bitch in the face if she up in my crib talkin dat noiz
 
He was first shot in the head and went down. Fine so far. Then, as he was off camera, the man testified the kid was moving to the point he still posed a threat. This is a high adrenalin situation where it's hard to think straight. So he finishes the robber off. Too bad for the armed robber. He was clearly willing to take their lives (as must be supposed when a robber is armed) and instead he lost his. Too bad, huh.

I hope he's pardoned by the Governor. I think he deserves it.

Let me put it this way... if an armed intruder enters my house I'm flat out killing him any way I possibly can and I don't care if I disarm him (or her if he gets the Sam Adams transgender surgery with out tax dollars plan) or not. I don;t want to injure them and have them come back on me in some drug induced rage at a later time. By the mere fact they are armed robbers, once they enter your premises or dwelling they forfeit their right to live unless the situation is completely defused.

You watched the video, right? You saw that the pharmacist left the store, chased the other thief, came back into the store, walked right past the first thief that he had shot, went back to the back of the store to get another gun, then walked back to the thief and shot him. If he'd had any concerns about this thief still being a threat, he'd have sought to disarm him when he had a chance. He didn't. Instead, he sought to be further armed himself, and sought to kill. I'm all for self-defense, but this isn't it. I agree with the verdict on this one.
 
You watched the video, right? You saw that the pharmacist left the store, chased the other thief, came back into the store, walked right past the first thief that he had shot, went back to the back of the store to get another gun, then walked back to the thief and shot him. If he'd had any concerns about this thief still being a threat, he'd have sought to disarm him when he had a chance. He didn't. Instead, he sought to be further armed himself, and sought to kill. I'm all for self-defense, but this isn't it. I agree with the verdict on this one.

Yeah, I saw all that.

What's your point?
 
Yeah, I saw all that.

What's your point?

My point is that if you willingly ignore an unimpeded opportunity to disarm your potential assailant, you forsake any future claim to self defense against said assailant. "Self-defense" means that the primary goal was self-preservation. His primary goal was clearly not just to avoid injury; he wanted to kill. If your primary goal is to kill, then that's not self-defense; that's murder.
 
My point is that if you willingly ignore an unimpeded opportunity to disarm your potential assailant, you forsake any future claim to self defense against said assailant. "Self-defense" means that the primary goal was self-preservation. His primary goal was clearly not just to avoid injury; he wanted to kill. If your primary goal is to kill, then that's not self-defense; that's murder.

I will disagree, but I do see your point.

I will stand by what he stated, that the assailant still posed a threat and he acted on that threat. That is either self defense or manslaughter.
 
are you disagreeing with the video evidence? its fairly damning

What video evidence? We can't see the dude on the floor. How do we know he doesn't still pose a threat? If so, I don't care if he unloads a few clips into his carcass/corpse. Now, if the guy was killed by the first shot, how cares if he pumps a few more caps in him for good measure? Not me.
 
If so, I don't care if he unloads a few clips into his carcass/corpse. Now, if the guy was killed by the first shot, how cares if he pumps a few more caps in him for good measure? Not me.

dude, like i said, lay off the war games lol
 
My point is that if you willingly ignore an unimpeded opportunity to disarm your potential assailant, you forsake any future claim to self defense against said assailant. "Self-defense" means that the primary goal was self-preservation. His primary goal was clearly not just to avoid injury; he wanted to kill. If your primary goal is to kill, then that's not self-defense; that's murder.

Under the law it's clearly self defense, then clearly murder.

But only because he's just an average hardworking American. So he didn't have an automatic with 2 extra clips on his belt.

He's a pharmacist. With a bad back. Living in a hellhole where young blacks rob and murder honest folks day in and day out.

His primary goal is probably to live long enough to be able to retire someplace else.

He emptied his gun successfully defending himself and saved his customers from being murdered. He bravely chased the other POS off even though he was empty. It's clear the down POS posed no immediate threat, but the reality is anyone who attempts to kill you will most likely remain a threat to your existence as long as they exist. Wounded criminals not only seek revenge but many have successfully sued the people who shot them.

The video shows things pretty clearly.
No doubt the punks threatened lives at gunpoint. (At this point their lives lose all value to society, IMO)
No doubt that one was shot in self defense and the other ran and left his partner like the coward he is.
No doubt the pharmacist shot the downed punk some more.
Maybe he was already dead, maybe not, but the world is a better place now that we're certain he's dead.
Unfortunately, the 2 people who created him and molded him into a walking nightmare will never be held accountable or prevented from doing it again.
Unfortunately, an honest hardworking pharmacist lost his life too.
 
Under the law it's clearly self defense, then clearly murder.
...
The video shows things pretty clearly.
No doubt the punks threatened lives at gunpoint. (At this point their lives lose all value to society, IMO)
No doubt that one was shot in self defense and the other ran and left his partner like the coward he is.
No doubt the pharmacist shot the downed punk some more.

So we agree--the first time he shot the thief, it was self defense; when he went back for more, it became murder. OK
 
I believe in an absolute right of self defense.

If someone attempts to, or even threatens to kill you, it's fine with me if you kill them. If they escape and you find them 10 years later, it's fine with me if you kill them.

In fact, I'd think you were stupid if you didn't.

If someone physically assaults you in any way, it's fine with me if you kill them.

It's what I'd do.
 
would he have got as much jail time if instead of shooting him the 2nd time, he fucked the hole in his head? hmmm, the mind wanders
 
I believe in an absolute right of self defense.

If someone attempts to, or even threatens to kill you, it's fine with me if you kill them. If they escape and you find them 10 years later, it's fine with me if you kill them.

In fact, I'd think you were stupid if you didn't.

If someone physically assaults you in any way, it's fine with me if you kill them.

It's what I'd do.

i would rape them first, just to scare off any future weirdos, and then id kill them

then id rape them again, and kill them some more, then take a shower and watch some tube
 
So we agree--the first time he shot the thief, it was self defense; when he went back for more, it became murder. OK

Under the law, yes.

If on the jury, I'd give him a pass.

It's not like he asked to have guns pointed at him. He's the victim here.
 
Maris, I think there's a difference, though. If he'd have shot him 5 times immediately, I'm with you. Coming back, I don't think he has any obligation to perform first aid or anything, but he's supposed to call the cops when the situation is no longer life-threatening and he's DEFINITELY not supposed to shoot him again.

First-degree murder? That's rough, but that's the law. Would I be up in arms if he was pardoned? Not really. Do I hate that the women were huddled up jumping for joy that this guy was convicted? Yeah, I do.

If he doesn't go into the back room for another clip, the kid's probably still just as dead, but he's not going to prison for the rest of his life.
 
Maris, I think there's a difference, though. If he'd have shot him 5 times immediately, I'm with you. Coming back, I don't think he has any obligation to perform first aid or anything, but he's supposed to call the cops when the situation is no longer life-threatening and he's DEFINITELY not supposed to shoot him again.

First-degree murder? That's rough, but that's the law. Would I be up in arms if he was pardoned? Not really. Do I hate that the women were huddled up jumping for joy that this guy was convicted? Yeah, I do.

If he doesn't go into the back room for another clip, the kid's probably still just as dead, but he's not going to prison for the rest of his life.
Yup, the fact that he walked OVER him after chasing that other kid was pretty damn condemning. If he was still a threat at that point, he would have blasted him.

I'm all for self defense and wouldn't blink an eye in killing anybody that threatened my life or my family's life, but I think that the guy went a little too far. The fact that he stood right over the top of him as he fired the last 5 shots shows that he wasn't much of a threat anymore.
 
i would rape them first, just to scare off any future weirdos, and then id kill them

then id rape them again, and kill them some more, then take a shower and watch some tube
Would you record the raping,killing and then the necro-raping just so you could rub one out before you go to bed every night?
 

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