My experience so far with the British health care system

[mook]

Since I moved here to England, I thought I'd discuss my dealings so far with the much maligned (by Republican Americans) British National Health Service.

My son had symptoms of appendicitis. So I called the NHS hotline, they got my phone number, and said they'd call back after they talked to a doctor. They then called me back and gave me a hospital I could arrange to take my boy to. I didn't realize I wrote the hospital address down wrong, so on the way to the hospital I called the number again, but my cell phone cut out. 5 minutes later the NHS called me back and apologized that the call got disconnected (it was definitely my fault.) It was a different person, but they had that shit down. I was pretty impressed at their ability to recover from my incompetence.

We get to the hospital, and they immediately take my son in for triage. They determine the appendix isn't blowing up immediately, so they tell us to wait in the waiting room. We sit there for 3 hours. It kind of sucked, but the nurse said there wasn't any point in taking us up to an office because there wasn't anything anybody could do anyway without more symptoms. Finally they decide to put us in a room, and they tell us to spend the night. Me, wife and kid spend night in pretty nice room. Kid gets a free breakfast in the morning. Doctor comes in, looks him over and decides to send us home and that it's a false alarm. (No symptoms in two months since, so I guess he was right.) We leave without signing anything or paying anyone. Just walk out. It was weird. Never got a single scrap of paperwork over the incident since. Zilch. I keep waiting for the months of insurance forms and bills to show up, and it just doesn't. It's just how it works here.

Since then both my sons have seen doctors for colds. I thought they could tough it out, but the wife insisted. We got them in to see a doctor within a few hours of me phoning up. Again, no paperwork of any kind as they have our records. No filling and re-filling of anything. Weird.

The doctors facility we took them to was also odd. There were three young women behind the counter (looked like maybe 20 or so) taking calls, and that was it. No nurses anywhere. But there were 6 doctors on staff and it was busy. We wait maybe 8 or 9 minutes, and when it was our turn to go see a doctor, we escort ourselves down a hall and walk right into a tiny room with a bed, a desk and a bona fide doctor who smiles and leisurely discusses things with us. He tells me one boy might need a stool sample if symptoms persist for a few more days, but he smiles and says he hopes not because the doctor will be the one taking it. I think he was serious.

It was just oddly efficient to see so many doctors and so little overhead. No paperwork. No nurses transcribing symptoms onto charts. No billing people. Mostly just doctors and a couple girls handling appointments.

*shrug* When people complain about the waste in the US health care system, I kind of get it now. I know the NHS has its problems, but man, here in England it's all so simple and streamlined and worry-free. It all just worked.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Since I moved here to England, I thought I'd discuss my dealings so far with the much maligned (by Republican Americans) British National Health Service.

My son had symptoms of appendicitis. So I called the NHS hotline, they got my phone number, and said they'd call back after they talked to a doctor. They then called me back and gave me a hospital I could arrange to take my boy to. I didn't realize I wrote the hospital address down wrong, so on the way to the hospital I called the number again, but my cell phone cut out. 5 minutes later the NHS called me back and apologized that the call got disconnected (it was definitely my fault.) It was a different person, but they had that shit down. I was pretty impressed at their ability to recover from my incompetence.

We get to the hospital, and they immediately take my son in for triage. They determine the appendix isn't blowing up immediately, so they tell us to wait in the waiting room. We sit there for 3 hours. It kind of sucked, but the nurse said there wasn't any point in taking us up to an office because there wasn't anything anybody could do anyway without more symptoms. Finally they decide to put us in a room, and they tell us to spend the night. Me, wife and kid spend night in pretty nice room. Kid gets a free breakfast in the morning. Doctor comes in, looks him over and decides to send us home and that it's a false alarm. (No symptoms in two months since, so I guess he was right.) We leave without signing anything or paying anyone. Just walk out. It was weird. Never got a single scrap of paperwork over the incident since. Zilch. I keep waiting for the months of insurance forms and bills to show up, and it just doesn't. It's just how it works here.

Since then both my sons have seen doctors for colds. I thought they could tough it out, but the wife insisted. We got them in to see a doctor within a few hours of me phoning up. Again, no paperwork of any kind as they have our records. No filling and re-filling of anything. Weird.

The doctors facility we took them to was also odd. There were three young women behind the counter (looked like maybe 20 or so) taking calls, and that was it. No nurses anywhere. But there were 6 doctors on staff and it was busy. We wait maybe 8 or 9 minutes, and when it was our turn to go see a doctor, we escort ourselves down a hall and walk right into a tiny room with a bed, a desk and a bona fide doctor who smiles and leisurely discusses things with us. He tells me one boy might need a stool sample if symptoms persist for a few more days, but he smiles and says he hopes not because the doctor will be the one taking it. I think he was serious.

It was just oddly efficient to see so many doctors and so little overhead. No paperwork. No nurses transcribing symptoms onto charts. No billing people. Mostly just doctors and a couple girls handling appointments.

*shrug* When people complain about the waste in the US health care system, I kind of get it now. I know the NHS has its problems, but man, here in England it's all so simple and streamlined and worry-free. It all just worked.

Can you pick your doctor?

BTW-sounds like a great system. What about more complicated medical conditions (joint replacement or sever condition) . . . what do you hear, good medical care in that situation?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Since I moved here to England, I thought I'd discuss my dealings so far with the much maligned (by Republican Americans) British National Health Service.

My son had symptoms of appendicitis. So I called the NHS hotline, they got my phone number, and said they'd call back after they talked to a doctor. They then called me back and gave me a hospital I could arrange to take my boy to. I didn't realize I wrote the hospital address down wrong, so on the way to the hospital I called the number again, but my cell phone cut out. 5 minutes later the NHS called me back and apologized that the call got disconnected (it was definitely my fault.) It was a different person, but they had that shit down. I was pretty impressed at their ability to recover from my incompetence.

We get to the hospital, and they immediately take my son in for triage. They determine the appendix isn't blowing up immediately, so they tell us to wait in the waiting room. We sit there for 3 hours. It kind of sucked, but the nurse said there wasn't any point in taking us up to an office because there wasn't anything anybody could do anyway without more symptoms. Finally they decide to put us in a room, and they tell us to spend the night. Me, wife and kid spend night in pretty nice room. Kid gets a free breakfast in the morning. Doctor comes in, looks him over and decides to send us home and that it's a false alarm. (No symptoms in two months since, so I guess he was right.) We leave without signing anything or paying anyone. Just walk out. It was weird. Never got a single scrap of paperwork over the incident since. Zilch. I keep waiting for the months of insurance forms and bills to show up, and it just doesn't. It's just how it works here.

Since then both my sons have seen doctors for colds. I thought they could tough it out, but the wife insisted. We got them in to see a doctor within a few hours of me phoning up. Again, no paperwork of any kind as they have our records. No filling and re-filling of anything. Weird.

The doctors facility we took them to was also odd. There were three young women behind the counter (looked like maybe 20 or so) taking calls, and that was it. No nurses anywhere. But there were 6 doctors on staff and it was busy. We wait maybe 8 or 9 minutes, and when it was our turn to go see a doctor, we escort ourselves down a hall and walk right into a tiny room with a bed, a desk and a bona fide doctor who smiles and leisurely discusses things with us. He tells me one boy might need a stool sample if symptoms persist for a few more days, but he smiles and says he hopes not because the doctor will be the one taking it. I think he was serious.

It was just oddly efficient to see so many doctors and so little overhead. No paperwork. No nurses transcribing symptoms onto charts. No billing people. Mostly just doctors and a couple girls handling appointments.

*shrug* When people complain about the waste in the US health care system, I kind of get it now. I know the NHS has its problems, but man, here in England it's all so simple and streamlined and worry-free. It all just worked.

No MRI's done, no specialists consulted, you're being shoveled a shit level of service and are happily swallowing it. Was either of your children checked to see if they needed a 3rd kidney? A 2nd heart? "Cold symptoms" could be almost anything and just about all of them are bad. You could have got a more accurate diagnosis by reading WebMD. You got lucky. We'll pray for you.

 

[riverman]

This is a great story, but have they discovered dental floss yet?

 

[julius]

It's a shame that in the industrialized world, we're more concerned about the profits of the big businesses (who don't actually hire more if they profit more) than we are about the health of our citizens.

And whats amazing about the whole process you described? You're not a citizen of the country.

 

[barfo]

No MRI's done, no specialists consulted, you're being shoveled a shit level of service and are happily swallowing it. Was either of your children checked to see if they needed a 3rd kidney? A 2nd heart? "Cold symptoms" could be almost anything and just about all of them are bad. You could have got a more accurate diagnosis by reading WebMD. You got lucky. We'll pray for you.

It's too late. He hasn't posted since, so I guess the British Death Squads got him. Poor Mook. Take the kids to the doctor one too many times, and they just put the whole family to death.

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

It's a shame that in the industrialized world, we're more concerned about the profits of the big businesses (who don't actually hire more if they profit more) than we are about the health of our citizens.

And whats amazing about the whole process you described? You're not a citizen of the country.

Do you run a business?

 

[mook]

And whats amazing about the whole process you described? You're not a citizen of the country.

I'm not a citizen, but both boys are. (They have dual citizenship. Still weird seeing their faces on British passports.)

I am entitled to the same level of care, though.

 

[mook]

No MRI's done, no specialists consulted, you're being shoveled a shit level of service and are happily swallowing it. Was either of your children checked to see if they needed a 3rd kidney? A 2nd heart? "Cold symptoms" could be almost anything and just about all of them are bad. You could have got a more accurate diagnosis by reading WebMD. You got lucky. We'll pray for you.

Heh, yeah. Funny thing though was of the 5 doctors I've talked to, 3 of them were from other countries. A British friend speculated that the good English doctors probably go to America to make serious money, so that creates space for the British to siphon away from other nations.

In the parking lot at the clinic there were parking spots designated for doctors. I didn't notice any that looked like they cost much over $40k US. A couple were clearly under $10k.

If money is no object, I think the best doctors are still in the US.

 

[mook]

It's too late. He hasn't posted since, so I guess the British Death Squads got him. Poor Mook. Take the kids to the doctor one too many times, and they just put the whole family to death.

barfo

I only wish Sarah Palin were here to protect me.

 

[Denny Crane]

I like the idea of 3 hour waits and seeing doctors from 3rd world nations.

Bring it on!

 

[julius]

I like the idea of 3 hour waits and seeing doctors from 3rd world nations.

Bring it on!

There are doctors from 3rd world nations in the US, and sometimes the wait is just as long.

 

[mook]

I like the idea of 3 hour waits and seeing doctors from 3rd world nations.

Bring it on!

lol. That's quite a filter to put on this post. Like I said, the 3 hour wait was going to happen regardless, because they were waiting to see if he became more symptomatic. From a purely cost/reward analysis, it makes more sense to have somebody wait in a waiting room than anywhere else. I was annoyed, but I get it. In the US I suspect we'd wait in an exam room or ER so they could bill the insurance company and me much more. I also suspect in the US they would have operated "just to be sure," removing a perfectly good appendix for no reason other than to prevent a possible lawsuit and again run up bills.

As for doctors, yep. If you had the choice of being a GP in the UK making $90k, or a plastic surgeon in California at $750k, it's a pretty easy choice for some. I don't know that the doctors I saw were "third world," but they seemed competent. (As a layman, I have little knowledge to judge them by.) Still, though, like I said, if you want the very best doctors in the world and can afford it, USA can't be beat.

 

[Denny Crane]

lol. That's quite a filter to put on this post. Like I said, the 3 hour wait was going to happen regardless, because they were waiting to see if he became more symptomatic. From a purely cost/reward analysis, it makes more sense to have somebody wait in a waiting room than anywhere else. I was annoyed, but I get it. In the US I suspect we'd wait in an exam room or ER so they could bill the insurance company and me much more. I also suspect in the US they would have operated "just to be sure," removing a perfectly good appendix for no reason other than to prevent a possible lawsuit and again run up bills.

As for doctors, yep. If you had the choice of being a GP in the UK making $90k, or a plastic surgeon in California at $750k, it's a pretty easy choice for some. I don't know that the doctors I saw were "third world," but they seemed competent. (As a layman, I have little knowledge to judge them by.) Still, though, like I said, if you want the very best doctors in the world and can afford it, USA can't be beat.

I'm glad you got my sense of humor.

 

[santeesioux]

Socialism!

 

[riverman]

Nurses always interested me more than doctors anyway.

 

[MarAzul]

It's a shame that in the industrialized world, we're more concerned about the profits of the big businesses (who don't actually hire more if they profit more) than we are about the health of our citizens.

What would your goal be if you ran a business without profits being your mission?

 

[MarAzul]

It's a shame that in the industrialized world, we're more concerned about the profits of the big businesses (who don't actually hire more if they profit more) than we are about the health of our citizens.

And whats amazing about the whole process you described? You're not a citizen of the country.

Come on, back up your Bull Shit. How would you run a business if not for profit?

 

[MarAzul]

Nurses always interested me more than doctors anyway.

Insurance for that problem is very costly.

 

[riverman]

Insurance for that problem is very costly.

I'll take your word for it, don't know if you've ever been in a hospital for an extended amount of time but nurses are the backbone of the health care system and they are there to answer questions, over a two week period I spent in a hospital I saw them every day and the doctor once a week for 5 minutes. The nurses are more interesting. Was that a veiled Clinton joke or something?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Come on, back up your Bull Shit. How would you run a business if not for profit?

A nonprofit organization or not-for-profit organization is an organization that uses surplus revenues to achieve its goals rather than distributing them as profit or dividends.

 

[Denny Crane]

A nonprofit organization or not-for-profit organization is an organization that uses surplus revenues to achieve its goals rather than distributing them as profit or dividends.

Most hospitals are non profit.

 

[MarAzul]

I'll take your word for it, don't know if you've ever been in a hospital for an extended amount of time but nurses are the backbone of the health care system and they are there to answer questions, over a two week period I spent in a hospital I saw them every day and the doctor once a week for 5 minutes. The nurses are more interesting. Was that a veiled Clinton joke or something?

err, no. Perhaps I misread your interest in Nurses, their backbone never gained my attention.

Have a good day.

 

[jlprk]

What would your goal be if you ran a business without profits being your mission?

Come on, back up your Bull Shit. How would you run a business if not for profit?

A nonprofit organization or not-for-profit organization is an organization that uses surplus revenues to achieve its goals rather than distributing them as profit or dividends.

Oooh...Gottum!!

Most hospitals are non profit.

Gottum again!!

 

[Denny Crane]

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/apr/14/nhs-nurses-stretch-breaking-point-report

Half of nurses are working through breaks or beyond their shift, revealing a health service under severe strain, a report has warned.

A survey of almost 3,000 nurses by Unison showed that two-thirds believed they did not spend enough time with patients, which most said affected care.

Three out of five of those questioned felt that staff numbers led to lower standards of care, while almost half said they were looking after eight or more patients.

The report, Running on Empty, said half of nurses were not confident about raising any concerns they had with their local managers

Gail Adams, Unison's head of nursing, said: "One of the most damaging findings of this survey is how little has changed since last year.

"Despite all the government rhetoric, despite the Francis, Keogh and Cavendish reports, the spectre of another Mid Staffs still looms large over the NHS. Progress on safe staffing levels has been glacial and that means poorer care and patients still at risk.

"It's clear that despite nurses working through breaks and beyond their hours, they simply do not have enough time to give patients the care and attention they need. That is distressing for patients and for the staff trying to care for them.

"The government needs to face up to the damage it is inflicting on patients and staff, by not introducing legally enforceable nurse-to-patient ratios, and take urgent action."

The union claimed that the survey also revealed an overuse of agency staff in the NHS.

In another study last week, Unison said the ambulance service was on the verge of breaking down because of stress levels among staff.

 

[mook]

I've read a number of such articles (tales of the imminent and certain collapse of the NHS extend back to at least the 1990's), and talked with many, many people here about the follies of the English health care system. They all seem condemning, until they give me this look and then say, effectively, "Well, it's not that bad. It's not like we're America."

Seriously. I've never met a one who would trade their system for the American one. They all seem torn between trying to figure out if it's a travesty or a bad joke. And going off first-hand experience of seeing the gross inefficiencies of the US system vs the streamlined systems of the UK, I can't blame them.

 

[Denny Crane]

So it's OK to way overwork the nurses at the cost of appropriate care?

 

[MARIS61]

Most hospitals are non profit.

Clearly the definition has become so ridiculously broad as to be useless and Iinsulting.

 

[MARIS61]

So it's OK to way overwork the nurses at the cost of appropriate care?

LOL. Denny Crane the union rep!

 

[MARIS61]

My son sliced his index finger nearly all the way off yesterday and went to the emergency room in Salem.

He had to wait 6 hours before he saw anyone. After the wait his care was excellent.