My Man Rand Paul holding up that dang Patriot Act!

[MarAzul]

He might be the only one in the Senate that can read the 4th amendment.
I wish him some success.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-05-20-18-54-45

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/19/politics/rand-paul-patriot-act-filibuster/

http://www.c-span.org/video/?326084-1/senator-rand-paul-rky-nsa-surveillance

 

[SlyPokerDog]

He might be the only one in the Senate that can read the 4th amendment.

Paul did point to Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Oregon, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee who stands on equal footing with Paul when it comes to curtailing the NSA's broad surveillance powers.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/19/politics/rand-paul-patriot-act-filibuster/

 

[jlprk]

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-05-20-18-54-45

Oregon and the nation are lucky to have Wyden, the intelligence community's biggest thorn in the Senate.

On that site, I get a herky-jerky page which I can't read, while at the bottom it says, "This site wants to track your location. OK?"

So I "Select All" and "Copy" to a word processor so I can read the article.

 

[Denny Crane]

Oregon and the nation are lucky to have Wyden, the intelligence community's biggest thorn in the Senate.

On that site, I get a herky-jerky page which I can't read, while at the bottom it says, "This site wants to track your location. OK?"

So I "Select All" and "Copy" to a word processor so I can read the article.

You're already being tracked and your 4th amendment rights trampled on.

 

[jlprk]

You seem to have personal knowledge of this. Maybe your company's VP-NSA Liaison told you. One of those rarely-seen moderators.

 

[Haakzilla]

You seem to have personal knowledge of this. Maybe your company's VP-NSA Liaison told you. One of those rarely-seen moderators.

...COINTELPRO

 

[Denny Crane]

You seem to have personal knowledge of this. Maybe your company's VP-NSA Liaison told you. One of those rarely-seen moderators.

The NSA doesn't need my cooperation to spy on you.

I hear they're rounding up people who post negative things about Reagan on message boards. Gitmo.

 

[jlprk]

I always said some good things about Reagan. For a wrinkled-up pruneface, I thought he retained that tanned pruny look well as an old man. You could almost imagine him hanging by the stem from the nearest speechwriter as if from a prune tree, reading those youthful words as if unrehearsed.

I had plenty of good things to say, just like that. How could I dislike him with his eternally red hair, red rouge cheeks, and sun-cracked smile.

 

[Denny Crane]

 

[jlprk]

That map was predicted in the late 1940s.

 

[MARIS61]

http://www.examiner.com/article/the...onomy-has-destroyed-the-american-middle-class

When Reagan came into office in 1980, the top tax rate was 70%. After his first term, the top tax rate had been cut to 50% and by the time he left office in January of 1989, the top tax rate was down to only 28%. Revenue into the federal government was cut so significantly, basic programs could no longer be funded. Even with less money for the country to spend, Reagan decided to increase military spending. In projected 2005 dollars, defense spending hit $456.5 billion by 1987, compared to only $325.1 billion in 1980, the year Reagan was elected.
While Reagan cut taxes drastically on the top income earners, the wealth didn't "trickle down" like Republicans had promised. In 1981, Ronald Reagan signed into law the Economic Recovery Act which was said to reduce revenues by $749 billion over the next five years. After Reagan signed the massive tax cut, unemployment began to increase. In 1982, Reagan needed to gain additional revenue and signed the largest tax increase in American history, the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982.
As 1982 came to the close, November and December shared an unemployment rate of 10.8%, the highest unemployment since 1948.
Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times, primarily on the middle class, and under the advice of the Chairman of the Federal reserve, Alan Greenspan, Reagan increased the Social Security tax rate and added a gas tax. By the time Reagan left office he had tripled the national debt and left his Vice President, George H.W Bush, to handle the economic mess himself when he took over the presidency in 1989. George H.W Bush ran on the campaign message of ", read my lips, no new taxes," but with the large debt at his feet, he was forced to renege on his promise and raised taxes.

Republicans were furious with Bush and in the 1992 election, he lost to Democratic challenger, Bill Clinton. After eight years in office, President Clinton was able to get the United States fiscal problems under control and handed George W. Bush a surplus when he became president after a controversial defeat of Al Gore in 2000. With a surplus in hand, President Bush decided to cut taxes not once, but twice in 2001 and 2003. As with Reagan, the tax cuts primarily helped the wealthy and did very little for working Americans and small businesses.
In addition to big spending projects like the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and passing an unpaid for prescription drug plan, President Bush was also close with the man appointed by Ronald Reagan as the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, Alan Greenspan. Greenspan had been a driving force in helping to deregulate the banks in the United States and mortgages were being offered to Americans who weren't in the position to take them on. Greenspan championed the "sub prime" mortgage, which let low and middle income Americans seem like they could afford a home because of the low rates, but as the years went on the rates would rise, leaving the homeowner without the ability to pay.

While the Republican party has changed over the years, conservatives from Reagan to Bush do have things in common. The attack on unions started under Ronald Reagan when the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization (PATCO) went on strike demanding better working conditions, better pay and a 32 hour workweek. Union members also didn't want to be included in the civil service clause which banned government unions from going on strike. After calling their bluff, Reagan fired 11,345 workers who refused to return to work and sparked an attack on unions that continue to this day. As union membership has declined, income for working Americans, union and non union, has declined. Conservatives have molded the word "union" into a four letter word, turning low and middle class workers against each other as the wealth has continued to concentrate to the top.
With union membership in decline, American workers have seen their jobs being outsourced to other countries. Companies decided that to maximize profit they would buy cheap labor in third world countries instead of paying hard working Americans a fair wage. On his last day in office, President Hover passed the "Buy American Act" in 1933 which required the United States government to buy American made products, but left it too vague and gave the ability to hand out wavers to businesses. Starting in the 1980s, waivers were being handed out at a faster pace, continuing the attack on the American worker by utilizing cheap labor outside of the country.
The Republican party has created a "battle royal" economy with "battle royal" economics, where every man and woman is fighting for themselves. As the top 1% has seen their income increase sharply over the last thirty years, the average American has seen their wages remain stagnant. The American people need to stop fighting among themselves and fight for the rights guaranteed to them under the United States Constitution by our Founding Fathers.

 

[Denny Crane]

MARIS, can you read a graph? There was a recession in 1983 followed by rapid growth of tax revenues.

Not enough to fund government programs. That's a joke.

Government spending with Democrats controlling congress was higher than any time ever. The only time it was exceeded was Democrats controlling congress and a reckless spending Obama as president. See the graph below where outlays surpassed 20% of GDP.

 

[Stevenson]

Who woulda ever thunk MarAzul, me, and Denny would be on the same side of an issue?

I watched Citizenfour last night. Ed Snowden is my hero. We should all be thankful for what he bravely did.

 

[Denny Crane]

FWIW, my position is that the government must specify a person in a warrant to be able to spy on him (or her).

In the case of FISA, I'm OK with spying on the person before getting the warrant, but they must get the warrant within a few days.

If they know a terrorist's phone number, they should be allowed to monitor calls to and from that number.

They can do whatever they want overseas.

 

[MARIS61]

MARIS, can you read a graph? There was a recession in 1983 followed by rapid growth of tax revenues.

Not enough to fund government programs. That's a joke.

Government spending with Democrats controlling congress was higher than any time ever. The only time it was exceeded was Democrats controlling congress and a reckless spending Obama as president. See the graph below where outlays surpassed 20% of GDP.

A graph is merely a chart with selectively incomplete information arranged to present a pretense of evidence supporting an otherwise unsupportable point.

Reagan took America's well-balanced tax system and upended it, shifting the tax burden from those for whom it was no actual burden at all to those who were struggling to not fall into poverty.

By tripling the yearly tax bill for most lower-middle-class Americans, he effectively transformed the American Dream into a private country club for the 1%ers who pulled his strings. Because he destroyed (stole, actually) the life savings of most Americans with a stroke of a pen, much larger entitlement programs became an absolute necessity to prevent a total financial collapse and revolution. With their savings gone, sub-prime mortgages and college loans were introduced and heavily promoted by Reagan and his FED to make sure the masses would forever be in debt to the country club set.

Through his war on unions he also managed to destroy what was at the time the most inclusive healthcare system in the world, one that insured a higher percentage of paying Americans than any other in history because it was a normal piece of the average worker's pay plan.

He tried repeatedly to close the Small Business Administration and all other federal programs that aided Real Americans in their start to attain the American Dream.

Ronald Reagan is personally responsible for the deaths of more Real Americans, through lack of healthcare, through bankruptcy-caused suicides, through injuries and deaths caused by repealed safety and health regulations... than most countries we have fought wars against.

 

[riverman]

When I think of Reagan, I picture him next to Margaret Thatcher and imagine them hatching a plan to blanket the planet with a "Star Wars" space army program and borrowing whatever they want to implement it. He was a lousy governor when I lived up the hill from Jerry Brown. Swat teams and helicopters all summer and fall arresting hippies for growing pot and putting them in jail at the public's expense..not a great economic strategy considering how much local money the locals pumped into the counties. After their jail time, they'd go on welfare being in the woods without a source of income.

 

[Denny Crane]

A graph is merely a chart with selectively incomplete information arranged to present a pretense of evidence supporting an otherwise unsupportable point.

Reagan took America's well-balanced tax system and upended it, shifting the tax burden from those for whom it was no actual burden at all to those who were struggling to not fall into poverty.

By tripling the yearly tax bill for most lower-middle-class Americans, he effectively transformed the American Dream into a private country club for the 1%ers who pulled his strings. Because he destroyed (stole, actually) the life savings of most Americans with a stroke of a pen, much larger entitlement programs became an absolute necessity to prevent a total financial collapse and revolution. With their savings gone, sub-prime mortgages and college loans were introduced and heavily promoted by Reagan and his FED to make sure the masses would forever be in debt to the country club set.

Through his war on unions he also managed to destroy what was at the time the most inclusive healthcare system in the world, one that insured a higher percentage of paying Americans than any other in history because it was a normal piece of the average worker's pay plan.

He tried repeatedly to close the Small Business Administration and all other federal programs that aided Real Americans in their start to attain the American Dream.

Ronald Reagan is personally responsible for the deaths of more Real Americans, through lack of healthcare, through bankruptcy-caused suicides, through injuries and deaths caused by repealed safety and health regulations... than most countries we have fought wars against.

You're making stuff up.

I assume you're just trying to be funny.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/obama-resurrects-reagans-plan-close-144207557.html

The rest of your rant is just as easy to debunk, as I did with the graphs and my interest rate experience. You'd think a realtor would understand how mortgages work.

 

[Denny Crane]

Rand Paul succeeded.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20150523/us-nsa-surveillance-dbd7e82d6e.html

NSA winds down once-secret phone-records collection program

WASHINGTON (AP) — The National Security Agency has begun winding down its collection and storage of American phone records after the Senate failed to agree on a path forward to change or extend the once-secret program ahead of its expiration at the end of the month.

Barring an 11th hour compromise when the Senate returns to session May 31, a much-debated provision of the Patriot Act — and some other lesser known surveillance tools — will sunset at midnight that day. The change also would have a major impact on the FBI, which uses the Patriot Act and the other provisions to gather records in investigations of suspected spies and terrorists.

In a chaotic scene during the wee hours of Saturday, Senate Republicans blocked a bill known as the USA Freedom Act, which would have ended the NSA's bulk collection but preserved its ability to search the records held by the phone companies on a case-by-case basis. The bill was backed by President Barack Obama, House Republicans and the nation's top law enforcement and intelligence officials.

It fell just three votes short of the 60 needed for passage. All the "no" votes but one were cast by Republicans, some of whom said they thought the USA Freedom Act didn't go far enough to help the NSA maintain its capabilities.

If Senate Republican leaders were counting on extending current law and continuing the negotiations, they miscalculated. Democrats and libertarian-minded Republicans refused to go along. A bill to grant a two-month extension of the law failed, and senators objected to each attempt by Majority Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky offer up a short term extension.

 

[jlprk]

Rand Paul succeeded.

No he hasn't. Senate Republican leaders are fighting tooth and nail to keep the Patriot Act against almost all Senate Democrats like Oregon Sen. Wyden and some Senate Republicans like Rand Paul.

The good guys will probably lose as usual.

 

[jlprk]

MARIS, can you read a graph? There was a recession in 1983 followed by rapid growth of tax revenues.

For those of you who want a lesson in lying with graphs, learn from Denny. The left Y-axis starts at zero. The right one starts at over half its maximum. So when the blue line appears to have a slope of X over some period of time, it's not at all equivalent to when the red line has a slope of X.

Also, the one line is a tax rate, not income from taxes. Denny's description following it compares income to expenditures. That's not what the graph is about.

Also, the graph isn't factored for inflation, population growth, demographic change (millions of Baby Boomers entered the job market, paying entry level taxes while having babies who required social services), or percentage of GDP (always the Republican dodge on national debt while they have the presidency, but forgotten when a Democrat is President).

And if you're the Citizens for Tax Justice, manipulating OMB stats into a deceptive graph, be sure to list OMB as the primary source to give it false credibility.

 

[Denny Crane]

For those of you who want a lesson in lying with graphs, learn from Denny. The left Y-axis starts at zero. The right one starts at over half its maximum. So when the blue line appears to have a slope of X over some period of time, it's not at all equivalent to when the red line has a slope of X.

Also, the one line is a tax rate, not income from taxes. Denny's description following it compares income to expenditures. That's not what the graph is about.

Also, the graph isn't factored for inflation, population growth, demographic change (millions of Baby Boomers entered the job market, paying entry level taxes while having babies who required social services), or percentage of GDP (always the Republican dodge on national debt while they have the presidency, but forgotten when a Democrat is President).

And if you're the Citizens for Tax Justice, manipulating OMB stats into a deceptive graph, be sure to list OMB as the primary source to give it false credibility.

Bullshit.

The blue line goes with the revenue axis on the right, the red line with the tax rate on the left. The slopes are what they are. The claim from anti-Reagan nutjobs is that the tax cuts hurt revenues. As the graph shows, the cuts (along with closing loopholes) grew revenues.

The OMB was controlled by Democrats during the Reagan years. Whatever data they produced was biased against him. The teflon thing.

You're catching on. Reaganomics enabled people of all races, religions, and sex to find good jobs.


% of GDP doesn't help you either.

 

[Denny Crane]

So how are you going to shine on the fact that more people paying less taxes is still more revenue?

It's just the government letting those people have more of the fruits of their labor to use as they see fit. I don't get why people are opposed to that.

 

[Haakzilla]

...seems like this whole thing is a wag the dog style distraction so that they can usher in the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) while nobody is paying attention -- more evil to rule the world