No Roy Amnesty and Oden will be a Blazer

[magnifier661]

This firing makes me feel that Allen will not give up on his franchise guard and center. I think Cho was ready to use the amnesty on Roy and play hard ball with Oden. I believe this gamble was something Allen didn't want to happen.

I expect both Roy and Oden to be Blazers for quite sometime. I think the only way Roy leaves Portland is when he decides to medically retire.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I never thought they would have the balls to use the amnesty on Roy. Huge mistake, but whatever?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

They'd be stupid to not use amnesty on Roy if we're going to have a hard cap. At least, if we want to try and have a title contending team.

 

[magnifier661]

I never thought they would have the balls to use the amnesty on Roy. Huge mistake, but whatever?

Yeah I really didn't think they would either. I'm curious to see how Roy handles the Summer and how ready he will be to play at a much different role on this team. He has all Summer and some of the fall to get his shit together. I suspect if Roy can't contribute, he will medically retire, IMO.

 

[Ed O]

If Roy is our "franchise" shooting guard, then we are a hobbled franchise.

Ed O.

 

[illmatic99]

They'd be stupid to not use amnesty on Roy if we're going to have a hard cap. At least, if we want to try and have a title contending team.

Here is what storyteller says about this:

Let’s assume that all this is passed, including reducing Roy’s contract by 25%.

If Roy is not waived under the amnesty clause:

- In 2011-12, Roy’s contract will be reduced to $11.27 million. There’s no hard cap, so no worry about that. Maybe the Blazers are over the luxury tax threshold. But because it’s still a soft cap, Roy’s presence does not necessarily prevent the team from making other personnel transactions.

- In 2012-13, Roy’s contract will be reduced to $12.35 million. There’s still no hard cap, so no worry about that. Maybe the Blazers are over the luxury tax threshold. But again, because it’s still a soft cap, Roy’s presence does not necessarily prevent the team from making other personnel transactions.

- In 2013-14, Roy’s contract will be reduced to $13.42 million. There’s a hard cap, so the Blazers might be limited in what they can offer to other players. If he’s waived, he only counts as $5.35 million against the cap because of reduced guarantees.

- In 2014-15, Roy’s contract will be reduced to $14.49 million. There’s a hard cap, so the Blazers again might be limited in what they can offer to other players. If he’s waived, he only counts as $5.62 million against the cap because of reduced guarantees.

Here’s my point – if the Blazers decide to waive Roy under the amnesty clause, they get the cap savings but get zero production from him for 4 years. If they decide not to waive Roy under the amnesty clause, they get his production at least for 2 years (I’m assuming no real financial reason to waive him). And if, when the time of the hard cap truly enters the picture in 2013, they decide to waive him then because his production is not equal to the amount of cap space he takes up, he will count as about 12% of the hard cap as a waived player for each of two years.

So the question becomes – is his possible production on the court for 2+ seasons worth potentially tying up empty cap space in two years? Tough question to answer as we don’t really know how much he’ll be able to produce. Tougher because when it really matters from a cap perspective, he won’t count as 25% of the team’s cap space, he’ll count as half of that.

Again, this is all pure supposition. But given the parameters listed in the owner’s proposal, waiving Roy might not be as much of a slam dunk as some make it out to be.

Interesting discussion here: http://www.blazersedge.com/2011/5/2...-about-the-owners-last-proposal-for-a-new-cba

 

[Pinwheel1]

This firing makes me feel that Allen will not give up on his franchise guard and center. I think Cho was ready to use the amnesty on Roy and play hard ball with Oden. I believe this gamble was something Allen didn't want to happen.

I expect both Roy and Oden to be Blazers for quite sometime. I think the only way Roy leaves Portland is when he decides to medically retire.

This seems a bit premature. The new CBA is a long ways from being finalized. I doubt either Roy or Oden was part of the Cho decision.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

yuyuza1, my thinking is that Roy is a shell of himself. He's the ultimate defensive liability and despite his smarts on offense to occasionally have a decent game, is a liability there as well. Bottom line is that we're wasting a roster spot on him and then having to give him minutes due to his background with the team. It's better for all concern for him to retire or go elsewhere. Maybe he can be a player/coach here or something, I don't know.

 

[PapaG]

This firing makes me feel that Allen will not give up on his franchise guard and center. I think Cho was ready to use the amnesty on Roy and play hard ball with Oden. I believe this gamble was something Allen didn't want to happen.

I expect both Roy and Oden to be Blazers for quite sometime. I think the only way Roy leaves Portland is when he decides to medically retire.

They already played hardball with Oden by not offering him an extension last summer. That ship has sailed. Perhaps firing Cho is part of the damage control to try and keep Greg from accepting the Q.O.

 

[magnifier661]

Here is what storyteller says about this:



Interesting discussion here: http://www.blazersedge.com/2011/5/2...-about-the-owners-last-proposal-for-a-new-cba

I 100% agree with Storyteller. The reason is if we waive him, the only thing we truly get is a free roster spot. We will still be over the cap and the hard cap doesn't even take effect for another 2 years.

 

[PapaG]

yuyuza1, my thinking is that Roy is a shell of himself. He's the ultimate defensive liability and despite his smarts on offense to occasionally have a decent game, is a liability there as well. Bottom line is that we're wasting a roster spot on him and then having to give him minutes due to his background with the team. It's better for all concern for him to retire or go elsewhere. Maybe he can be a player/coach here or something, I don't know.

Roy outplayed Matthews in the playoffs, even on defense.

 

[illmatic99]

yuyuza1, my thinking is that Roy is a shell of himself. He's the ultimate defensive liability and despite his smarts on offense to occasionally have a decent game, is a liability there as well. Bottom line is that we're wasting a roster spot on him and then having to give him minutes due to his background with the team. It's better for all concern for him to retire or go elsewhere. Maybe he can be a player/coach here or something, I don't know.

Well, you mentioned "hard cap," so I figured you were intimating that Roy's contract was handcuffing us financially, but that might not necessarily be true (in the near future, anyway).

As for the basketball aspect, Roy had about 3 months to completely change his game and mindset. That transition from a superstar to a role player is not easy, and he predictably was frustrated. I'd give him some more time to find his new game and adjust it so he can maximize his talents. Even if he can be an upper level MLE caliber player, I'd' keep him on.

 

[magnifier661]

They already played hardball with Oden by not offering him an extension last summer. That ship has sailed. Perhaps firing Cho is part of the damage control to try and keep Greg from accepting the Q.O.

That's what I was thinking. Maybe this was Allen's action for players like Roy and Oden that their owner stands by them.

 

[PapaG]

People want to waive the one player on the team that can create his own offense. This place is hilarious.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Here is what storyteller says about this:



Interesting discussion here: http://www.blazersedge.com/2011/5/2...-about-the-owners-last-proposal-for-a-new-cba

"- In 2014-15, Roy’s contract will be reduced to $14.49 million. There’s a hard cap, so the Blazers again might be limited in what they can offer to other players. If he’s waived, he only counts as $5.62 million against the cap because of reduced guarantees."

Why was the 2014-15 included in the discussion if it is a "Team Option" year. The team is not going to pick up that option year even if Roy returns to allstar form. What am i missing?

 

[magnifier661]

"- In 2014-15, Roy’s contract will be reduced to $14.49 million. There’s a hard cap, so the Blazers again might be limited in what they can offer to other players. If he’s waived, he only counts as $5.62 million against the cap because of reduced guarantees."

Why was the 2014-15 included in the discussion if it is a "Team Option" year. The team is not going to pick up that option year even if Roy returns to allstar form. What am i missing?

You honestly think that Portland will not pick up his option if he returns to allstar form? I 100% disagree with that statement. I don't know why we would even discuss it though. I think there is a 0.009% chance of Roy ever returning to old form, unless some major medical breakthrough takes place.

 

[andalusian]

I believe the last year of Roy's contract is "player option", not "team option". That's why the original negotiations with him took so long.

 

[PapaG]

That's what I was thinking. Maybe this was Allen's action for players like Roy and Oden that their owner stands by them.

I've felt since last year that not offering Oden something was a huge mistake. I now think it may have been one of the worst blunders by a GM in recent years. Oden showed that he is a near All-Star caliber player when healthy. This isn't Kwame Brown here, who was fucking terrible when healthy, and probably would have helped his team more had he been hurt.

Meh ... you hire an inexperienced GM from outside the organization, I guess that's the risk you take. What I never understood about Cho was how he was going to take a few months to "evaluate" things before deciding on the direction of the team. If that was the case, then why the hell was Bayless traded for a draft pick before even playing a game with Cho as the GM?

 

[magnifier661]

I've felt since last year that not offering Oden something was a huge mistake. I now think it may have been one of the worst blunders by a GM in recent years. Oden showed that he is a near All-Star caliber player when healthy. This isn't Kwame Brown here, who was fucking terrible when healthy, and probably would have helped his team more had he been hurt.

Meh ... you hire an inexperienced GM from outside the organization, I guess that's the risk you take. What I never understood about Cho was how he was going to take a few months to "evaluate" things before deciding on the direction of the team. If that was the case, then why the hell was Bayless traded for a draft pick before even playing a game with Cho as the GM?

I agree. This isn't an "Al Davis" move. Al was never "pro-players". In fact, he benched his star running back for an entire season as a power play. I would never see Allen doing something like that. Hell he even tried sticking with Miles and Zbo for a long while before he finally gave up on them.

 

[magnifier661]

I believe the last year of Roy's contract is "player option", not "team option". That's why the original negotiations with him took so long.

Last year is player option, but the year before that is a "team option"

 

[Ed O]

I 100% agree with Storyteller. The reason is if we waive him, the only thing we truly get is a free roster spot. We will still be over the cap and the hard cap doesn't even take effect for another 2 years.

We also get tens of millions of dollars that the team could spend on existing players and free agents. While Allen has more money than every other NBA owner, even he has limits of how much he will spend.

Ed O.

 

[magnifier661]

We also get tens of millions of dollars that the team could spend on existing players and free agents. While Allen has more money than every other NBA owner, even he has limits of how much he will spend.

Ed O.

Is there really a true limit though? We've been witnessed to Allen paying over 120 mil per year (including lux tax) on that early 2000 team. Not saying it's smart, but Allen has proven he will spend over the top money to win.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Now that I'm fairly certain I'm at the circus instead of a following a real sports franchise, all I can reasonably hope for is wild-ass, crazy moves that shock and wow me. Keeping Roy and maxing out Oden makes perfect sense seen that way.

 

[Storyteller2]

Last year is player option, but the year before that is a "team option"

There's no team option in his contract. 2014-15 is an Early Termination Option (which is at Roy's discretion).

I assume you're looking at Hoopshype's salary page. First of all, if they're accurate, why do they have Roy's contract set at the 2009-10 maximum level and not the 2010-11 maximum level? Where's Ryan Gomes buyout amount? Where are the likely incentives for Aldridge and Camby that count against the cap?

Second of all, a team option (except in the case of Rookie scale contracts) must be in the last year of the contract. To report that there's a team option in the 2nd to last year just shows that you don't really understand the CBA. It's in Article XII, Section 1. (ii): "authorizes the extension of such Contract for no more than one (1) year beyond the stated term;"

BTW, my comments at BlazersEdge were not meant to say, "Portland needs to keep Roy", they were meant to say, "Waiving him might not be as cut and dry as some are making it out to be."

 

[Blaze01]

Roy outplayed Matthews in the playoffs, even on defense.

That is a bunch of fucking bullshit....

Roy had one fantastic game, one mediocre game and 4 horrible ones.....

Matthews was off\on on offense, but he worked hard on defense....Roy is a complete liability on defense....

People want to waive the one player on the team that can create his own offense. This place is hilarious.

I agree the team needs a few more players who can create offense, but even Roy can no longer do that consistently, hell even every other game, more like 1 every 3 or 4 games...and that is the crux of the problem with paying him MAX level money...

 

[magnifier661]

Last year is player option, but the year before that is a "team option"

Oops, my mistake. Third Year is "Player Option" and the 4th Year is "Team Option"

 

[magnifier661]

There's no team option in his contract. 2014-15 is an Early Termination Option (which is at Roy's discretion).

BTW, my comments at BlazersEdge were not meant to say, "Portland needs to keep Roy", they were meant to say, "Waiving him might not be as cut and dry as some are making it out to be."

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/portland.htm It says here that the last year of his contract is a "Team Option"

 

[andalusian]

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/portland.htm It says here that the last year of his contract is a "Team Option"

They are wrong.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4379864

"Agent Bob Myers confirmed to The Associated Press late Wednesday night that Roy agreed in principle to a contract at the NBA maximum salary. The fifth year is at Roy's option. "

 

[magnifier661]

They are wrong.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4379864

"Agent Bob Myers confirmed to The Associated Press late Wednesday night that Roy agreed in principle to a contract at the NBA maximum salary. The fifth year is at Roy's option. "

Well then... I stand corrected. I was basing my opinion on hoopshype.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I've felt since last year that not offering Oden something was a huge mistake. I now think it may have been one of the worst blunders by a GM in recent years. Oden showed that he is a near All-Star caliber player when healthy. This isn't Kwame Brown here, who was fucking terrible when healthy, and probably would have helped his team more had he been hurt.

Meh ... you hire an inexperienced GM from outside the organization, I guess that's the risk you take. What I never understood about Cho was how he was going to take a few months to "evaluate" things before deciding on the direction of the team. If that was the case, then why the hell was Bayless traded for a draft pick before even playing a game with Cho as the GM?

+1. I thought it showed zero negotiating skills on Cho's part..just a "wait and see" attitude. Really fucking stupid.