Politics North Korea

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Blazer4ever

Blazer4ever

Finding a Way
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I'll give you my 2 cents.
Sometimes who you see as enemy could be other things as well. I understand fear as much as anyone, I'm from a country who suffers from hate and fear constantly, from people who went through a lot and are still going through too much. But my perspective is different, like any person probably I have my own agenda and understanding, and being part of this community, which is obviously unique for someone living in Israel, I think influenced it very much.
I'm not going to talk about geopolitics, i'm trying to convey a more existentialistic message. If someone, or something, is very foreign to you, if it comes from a completely different colture or perspective, it can be scary. But if you get to know, him, she or it, if you're willing to get acquainted, it helps.
You know, personally, I've gone through a lot of shit in my life, also being a very sensitive person, it can be overwhelming. But there comes a time when you have to ponder the options and decide between going to war which could even be the more obvious decision, or decide that - like you say in english - that even a 1000 mile journey starts with a first step, or even before that, deciding that you take this journey.
And North Korea is light years away from you, they're not in the same time zone chronologically even, but you need to bridge that gap, you need to make this decision with all it's complexity, and do what it takes.
Find something, even one thing, that you actually kinda like about them and start from there
 
Blazer4ever said:
I'll give you my 2 cents.
Sometimes who you see as enemy could be other things as well. I understand fear as much as anyone, I'm from a country who suffers from hate and fear constantly, from people who went through a lot and are still going through too much. But my perspective is different, like any person probably I have my own agenda and understanding, and being part of this community, which is obviously unique for someone living in Israel, I think influenced it very much.
I'm not going to talk about geopolitics, i'm trying to convey a more existentialistic message. If someone, or something, is very foreign to you, if it comes from a completely different colture or perspective, it can be scary. But if you get to know, him, she or it, if you're willing to get acquainted, it helps.
You know, personally, I've gone through a lot of shit in my life, also being a very sensitive person, it can be overwhelming. But there comes a time when you have to ponder the options and decide between going to war which could even be the more obvious decision, or decide that - like you say in english - that even a 1000 mile journey starts with a first step, or even before that, deciding that you take this journey.
And North Korea is light years away from you, they're not in the same time zone chronologically even, but you need to bridge that gap, you need to make this decision with all it's complexity, and do what it takes.
Find something, even one thing, that you actually kinda like about them and start from there
Click to expand...
Sabre rattling is very common as a propaganda tool in the region....China does the same damned thing every time Taiwan has an election.....difference...nukes..and that's a big difference....Kim Jung-Un is clearly nuts...I'd start there
 
Blazer4ever said:
Ok, what else?
Click to expand...
China and Russia stand to gain more in a N Korean collapse than the US will...I'd like for it to not be our problem and think that it's up to the neighboring countries to sit down and work this out...N Korea is surrounded, hungry and without vast resources...in the past we'd just remove Kim Jung-Un and install a western friendly puppet...probably a South Korean to replace him.
 
To talk more philosophically (maybe even religiously) than geopolitically, it is more about Might For Right than anything else. Personally I believe that all are naturally in a state of evil and, if left unchecked, can be destructive. I see this all the time in 3rd-world countries where the lack of security and rule of law means that those in power generally abuse that power and those who aren't are abused. There is no bourgeoisie in Guatemala, West Africa, Afghanistan or North Korea. I don't necessarily care about bringing all of the tenets of democracy or a representative republic government to those people--I care about them having food and water and security enough to make a better future for their children than they had. ("Do unto others..."). That will NEVER happen under Kim Jong Un.

It's not the rank-and-file North Korean that will cause problems. There's no middle-class there that wants to rise up and take over the capitalistic South. When your leader pushes that he is a god, and the government is set up to continue that, there are already issues with authority. Divine Right of Kings left the west a few hundred years ago for a reason. Lord Acton's tenet that "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" has been proven over and over in many of the worst atrocities of the 20th century.

There is little good or positive that I/we/the world can learn from Kim Jong Un or his cadre of generals and ministers. Not how they treat their people, not how they interact with their neighbors, not how they are attempting to further their country, or even how they're trying to consolidate their power. Similar to Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Castro/Che, Saddam, drug lords, etc. Those who think the world owes them something at the criminal expense of the lives and livelihoods of others.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if Lenin/Stalin/Berea and Hitler/Goebbels and Saddam and Mao and Che and Qaddafi and the like had met with untimely demises before they started their purges, a lot of bloodshed and loss of the flower of society of multiple countries and cultures would've been avoided. Even (especially) from the "enemy" side.
 
riverman said:
China and Russia stand to gain more in a N Korean collapse than the US will...I'd like for it to not be our problem and think that it's up to the neighboring countries to sit down and work this out...N Korea is surrounded, hungry and without vast resources...in the past we'd just remove Kim Jung-Un and install a western friendly puppet...probably a South Korean to replace him.
Click to expand...
Why would it have to be a "western-friendly puppet"? I wouldn't call Xi Jinping a puppet, but he's definitely "western-friendly" even though he's all about his country. You can be a good citizen of the world without being a puppet.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Why would it have to be a "western-friendly puppet"? I wouldn't call Xi Jinping a puppet, but he's definitely "western-friendly" even though he's all about his country. You can be a good citizen of the world without being a puppet.
Click to expand...
I was talking in the past...and I agree..
 
Blazer4ever said:
I'll give you my 2 cents.
Sometimes who you see as enemy could be other things as well. I understand fear as much as anyone, I'm from a country who suffers from hate and fear constantly, from people who went through a lot and are still going through too much. But my perspective is different, like any person probably I have my own agenda and understanding, and being part of this community, which is obviously unique for someone living in Israel, I think influenced it very much.
I'm not going to talk about geopolitics, i'm trying to convey a more existentialistic message. If someone, or something, is very foreign to you, if it comes from a completely different colture or perspective, it can be scary. But if you get to know, him, she or it, if you're willing to get acquainted, it helps.
You know, personally, I've gone through a lot of shit in my life, also being a very sensitive person, it can be overwhelming. But there comes a time when you have to ponder the options and decide between going to war which could even be the more obvious decision, or decide that - like you say in english - that even a 1000 mile journey starts with a first step, or even before that, deciding that you take this journey.
And North Korea is light years away from you, they're not in the same time zone chronologically even, but you need to bridge that gap, you need to make this decision with all it's complexity, and do what it takes.
Find something, even one thing, that you actually kinda like about them and start from there
Click to expand...

Let's see how friendly Israel would be with the US if we sent Dennis Rodman there.
 
Blazer4ever said:
...
And North Korea is light years away from you, they're not in the same time zone chronologically even, but you need to bridge that gap, you need to make this decision with all it's complexity, and do what it takes.
Find something, even one thing, that you actually kinda like about them and start from there
Click to expand...

I like that "North Korea is light years away from" me.

I don't like that they're upwind from me.

Bottom line at this point is we have to annihilate them, completely destroy their military capabilities and leave their infrastructure in shambles. Anything less will only guarantee more deaths. Thanks, Obama.
 
MARIS61 said:
I like that "North Korea is light years away from" me.

I don't like that they're upwind from me.

Bottom line at this point is we have to annihilate them, completely destroy their military capabilities and leave their infrastructure in shambles. Anything less will only guarantee more deaths. Thanks, Obama.
Click to expand...
Now don't take this the wrong way, but you are dangerously misinformed. The tensions between the USA and N Korea have as much to do with Obama as Trump has to do with racism. They both existed long before each person became president.
 
Fonzthecpt1 said:
Now don't take this the wrong way, but you are dangerously misinformed. The tensions between the USA and N Korea have as much to do with Obama as Trump has to do with racism. They both existed long before each person became president.
Click to expand...

Maris is going to be that guy who is still hiding in the woods 30 years after the war ends.

"Must eat field mice and grubs until reinforcements arrive."

barfo
 
@riverman, I find myself rarely disagreeing with you, but on this front you are wrong on two counts.

First, Kim Jong Un is no crazy man. He is a calculated, smooth operator. His nuclear program, from a strategic, defensive point of view is brilliant. He saw Kaddafi give up his nukes and get ousted. He saw Saddam didn't have them, and he got overthrown. Kim's nuclear program is like regime insurance - he has ensured, at least for now, his power. Much tougher now to get rid of him.

No, not crazy.

Second, China has a TON to lose by him being overthrown. First, it does them good to see us knocked off balance. Moreover, an overthrow of North Kora would send millions of poor, desperate refugees into China, AND a reunified Korea under S. Korea would eventually become an economic powerhouse on China's border.

No, they like the status quo. It serves them well.
 
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And @MARIS61 , you are really misinformed. You can't "annihilate them." That's the whole issue. You don't think we would have tried that if it remotely might have worked? Try it and 10 million South Koreans in Seoul die, China steps in, Japan steps in, it's a shit show of Biblical proportions.

The only sane course of action is to do what we did with the Soviets for 50 years - containment and MAD.

(I should be Secretary of State, except that @HCP might try and steal that moniker from me too.)
 
I'm pretty anti war, I wouldn't want to see us go to war with them but I also believe it won't happen. North Korea is way behind, their people aren't even fed properly, pretty much brainwashed to believe in whatever the dictator wants them to believe. I feel bad for the people, not the evil ones who blindly follow but the ones who have no choice. It's just unfortunate we have parts of this world where these things go on. Humans are fucking weird
 
Fonzthecpt1 said:
Now don't take this the wrong way, but you are dangerously misinformed. The tensions between the USA and N Korea have as much to do with Obama as Trump has to do with racism. They both existed long before each person became president.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it was Bill Clinton who gave them nuclear rectors. You know, to be used for research purposes only.

We'll have the same shit with Iran in about 15-20 years.
 
Stevenson said:
Moreover, an overthrow of North Kora would send millions of poor, desperate refugees into China,
Click to expand...
This I think is where we differ....it would be just like Tibet to them...and the sabre rattling that Kim Jong-Un has done for a long time is from the Chinese playbook against Taiwan....they shoot missles around Taiwan all the time and mass troops on the border when Taiwan holds elections and an independence candidate wins.....I think N Koreans would rejoice at an overthrow of the dictator...and I don't see him as a tactical genius..more like a chip off the old block...his dad did the same thing.
 
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riverman said:
This I think is where we differ....it would be just like Tibet to them...and the sabre rattling that Kim Jong-In has done for a long time is from the Chinese playbook against Taiwan....they shoot missles around Taiwan all the time and mass troops on the border when Taiwan holds elections and an independence candidate wins.....I think N Koreans would rejoice at an overthrow of the dictator...and I don't see him as a tactical genius..more like a chip off the old block...his dad did the same thing.
Click to expand...

I'm telling you a black ops team is going to take out the kim regine and place a puppet from the south in his place.
 
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