Nurk Grant Simon's on a Contender?

[SharpesTriumph]

All three are on large starter money contracts. Can they be 3/5th of a starting lineup for a contender? Why or why not?

 

[Cugel]

Not if they are your 2-4 best players. Resigning Nurk was a huge, costly mistake, just looked like he moves at Mach 0 this preseason. Wiseman made him look terrible imho. Ant probably was too and had an awful preseason too. Grant I am ok with. Probably Dame wanted to keep Nurk and Ant...

 

[Natebishop3]

Sure.... but I don't think Dame/Simons works together.

 

[wizenheimer]

you need an option for 'probably not'

Ant and Nurkic needed to be resigned, if for no other reason to have them as trade assets after Jan 15. I was unhappy with the size of the deals, neither player had earned that much of an extension. But it's not an Allen-Crabbe/Evan-Turner debacle

Simons is a different player than CJ, so it's possible it won't be a reprise of the Dame/CJ dysfunction. But Simons is similar enough to CJ to make the concern about the fit with Dame a legitimate one. As soon as Olshey had his ass fired, CJ was headed out the door. He was the only GM in the league that would have been so blinded by his own ego to not see that Dame/CJ had not worked, and would never work. The same for the no-defense Powell as a SF...out the door

what I'm hoping is that Cronin won't be so welded to players that he won't be able to see the need for further change if what is there is not working. And I suspect that while the team will probably work better than many expect, it won't be good enough to hold onto

 

[HansenYang]

Not if they are your 2-4 best players. Resigning Nurk was a huge, costly mistake, just looked like he moves at Mach 0 this preseason. Wiseman made him look terrible imho. Ant probably was too and had an awful preseason too. Grant I am ok with. Probably Dame wanted to keep Nurk and Ant...

Agreed.
I think the best role for Ant is a microwave off the bench.
Nurk is adequate for his role. But in reality - we need a more athletic C (who can shoot from outside) to be a ying/yang with Nurk. I was hoping Portland would snag Christian Wood for that role.

 

[stampedehero]

The key word was "possible".

 

[blazerkor]

Of course these three could start on a contender but one key would be that you have a really good backup for Nurk who both can defend the stretched floor better than Nurk and stretch the floor on offense. If these guys started with Jaylen Brown, Jayson Tatum and had Bobby Portis backing up Nurk with a few other decent bench pieces. That team would likely win the whole thing. So yeah all three can contribute to a contender and do so in the same lineup there's just a lot of conditions that need to be met in order for that to work and we are not meeting those conditions.

 

[HansenYang]

Grant & Nurk could each individually start for a contender - but they would have to be the #4 or #5 best player. I don't think both of them could be starting on the same team and still be a contender.

Ant is not good enough to be a starter on a contender. He has shown flashes, but he's much more of a Jamal Crawford type 6-man.

 

[riverman]

ask me around Christmas because they clearly don't know how to play together yet

 

[perkinsfor3]

I want to see more of Ant, but Grant and Nurk arent needle movers. Theres a long list of players starting and on benchea Id rather have than those two.

 

[BankTeller]

Grant & Nurk could each individually start for a contender - but they would have to be the #4 or #5 best player. I don't think both of them could be starting on the same team and still be a contender.

Ant is not good enough to be a starter on a contender. He has shown flashes, but he's much more of a Jamal Crawford type 6-man.

What makes you so quick to think that about Ant? All signs are showing he can become a good enough to be a star PG on a contender imo. Offensively, he’s going to get even better and in the first real stretch in his career to start, he averaged close to 6 apg. It’s just that we have a star PG already.

Crawford was never the shooter Ant was at any point in his career despite being known as one. Neither was LouWill or abunch of the well known best 6M.

 

[bigbailes]

If you had an elite level defensive guy in the 6'6" to 6'10" range that could knock down 3's at a 35-40% clip, than yes I think those other three could be your 3rd-5th starters. To me all three of those guys are high end role players, and I don't think Dame is in his prime where he can be a #1 on a championship team, so this roster either needs a low end #1 guy or a high end #2 to really compete for a title.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Nurk: no way he would start on a contender. Between injuries and his periodic head trips he is too unreliable.

Simons: certainly has a chance to reach that level, but I wouldn't say he is there yet. Revisit the issue after we have had a chance to see a full time player for a full season.

Grant: I honestly don't know. The guy strikes me as being stuck in no-man's-land between being a go-to guy and a blue collar/glue guy.

 

[wizenheimer]

Grant: I honestly don't know. The guy strikes me as being stuck in no-man's-land between being a go-to guy and a blue collar/glue guy.

Grant's best seasons, at least in terms of efficiency and advanced metrics are when he has been a 3rd option

 

[Ed O]

Add Jordan and Pippen in their prime... sure. It could work.

But there's nothing I can see where you could add two other starters and have a championship-level team.

 

[Voodoo]

Add Jordan and Pippen in their prime... sure. It could work.

But there's nothing I can see where you could add two other starters and have a championship-level team.

Yeah this.

 

[wizenheimer]

Add Jordan and Pippen in their prime... sure. It could work.

But there's nothing I can see where you could add two other starters and have a championship-level team.

tell me how you subtract Dame from the equation and have a championship-level team

 

[Ed O]

tell me how you subtract Dame from the equation and have a championship-level team

Trade Dame for future assets.

Take your lumps for a few years.

Draft well and get a bit lucky.

That's how you POTENTIALLY get a championship-level team. It's not guaranteed, obviously, but trading for players like Hart and Grant and re-signing your own guys to more money than they'd get anywhere else just buys you mediocrity and irrelevance with little hope for a brighter future. I'll take hope and excitement over slogging through years of building around a guy in the name of loyalty.

 

[BankTeller]

Trade Dame for future assets.

Take your lumps for a few years.

Draft well and get a bit lucky.

That's how you POTENTIALLY get a championship-level team. It's not guaranteed, obviously, but trading for players like Hart and Grant and re-signing your own guys to more money than they'd get anywhere else just buys you mediocrity and irrelevance with little hope for a brighter future. I'll take hope and excitement over slogging through years of building around a guy in the name of loyalty.

What’s the Dame trade out there right now you are dying to jump on?

 

[Ed O]

What’s the Dame trade out there right now you are dying to jump on?

That's a false question. It's not up to me to call GMs and make a trade.

Do you think that we could not get any value for Dame? I would argue almost any value for him would be better than hoping to MAYBE get a 6th seed in the playoffs as we watch our team get older and our contracts get larger, but I don't have anything specific that I know Cronin can propose or accept today.

 

[oldmangrouch]

So, the benchmark for a successful GM is that it cannot be conclusively proven that posters on a message board are smarter than he is?

I have no idea what deals are currently on the table. I do, however know this: if we can't get the kind of deal for Dame that Utah got for their players, it means one of 2 things. The first possibility is that Cronin is not the GM that we need. The second is that Portland fans have an inflated view of Dame's value. If it's the latter, isn't that a red flag for trying to build a contender around him?

For WIW I tend to think it is mostly the former.

 

[Tince]

I think they could be, assuming the other two around them are all-NBA players.

 

[HailBlazers]

I think we got lucky drafting Shaedon Sharpe.

 

[e_blazer]

So, the benchmark for a successful GM is that it cannot be conclusively proven that posters on a message board are smarter than he is?

I have no idea what deals are currently on the table. I do, however know this: if we can't get the kind of deal for Dame that Utah got for their players, it means one of 2 things. The first possibility is that Cronin is not the GM that we need. The second is that Portland fans have an inflated view of Dame's value. If it's the latter, isn't that a red flag for trying to build a contender around him?

For WIW I tend to think it is mostly the former.

How can it be either one until we see that the Blazers are actually interested in making a trade involving Dame?

 

[oldmangrouch]

How can it be either one until we see that the Blazers are actually interested in making a trade involving Dame?

The question was "what trades are out there" - which would include trade talks initiated by other teams. The answer is we don't know the details of any potential trades that might be out there, but we do know what Utah and SA got for younger, but lesser players.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Sometimes trades don't happen because they don't exist, regardless of which GM is trying for said trade. There are trade machines for this exact type of discussion. To not attempt to provide a trade that would match the satisfaction and deflect to, “ahh, but thats the GM’s job” is lazy, in my opinion.

 

[BankTeller]

That's a false question. It's not up to me to call GMs and make a trade.

Do you think that we could not get any value for Dame? I would argue almost any value for him would be better than hoping to MAYBE get a 6th seed in the playoffs as we watch our team get older and our contracts get larger, but I don't have anything specific that I know Cronin can propose or accept today.

Bruh, I wasn’t saying Dame can’t get any value. Who tf says we need to trade Dame for value and hits someone with the “ain’t my job to call GMs and make a trade” when asked if there’s a trade you like. You’re just a fan—WE ALREADY KNOW IT’S NOT YOUR JOB.

Why is asking Dame to sit and tank the rest of the season if we suck not better than trading Dame for less than he’s worth? Teams with draft picks and no leader guarantee nothing. I would NOT have been comfortable selecting Sharpe, I believed Dame would have the ability to help Sharpe grow into a special player, I didn’t think Sharpe was going to get selected anywhere in the lotto and thrive.

I would understand if your young core is talented enough to compete without Dame. But so far, we have Ant (who I don’t have confidence can lead a team yet) and Sharpe who is still learning. I believe Nas can be a building piece, but most don’t. So what does that leave you if you trade Dame? Certainly not another lotto pick this year. But it’s not like we’ve even asked him to sit yet.

But you do you bro.

 

[BankTeller]

Sometimes trades don't happen because they don't exist, regardless of which GM is trying for said trade. There are trade machines for this exact type of discussion. To not attempt to provide a trade that would match the satisfaction and deflect to, “ahh, but thats the GM’s job” is lazy, in my opinion.

THANK YOU!

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Couldn't really find any place to put this.
Somehow this quote was unsettling for me. Maybe it jarred my sense of fairness. Will Grant someday get tired of making up for Lillard and Simons lack of height, athleticism and defensive energy?
“I think he’s added a layer to our team on both ends of the floor,” Lillard told HoopsHype before the Blazers faced the Nets at Barclays Center. “A lot of times, he’s taking the toughest matchup defensively. He’s using his size, length and athleticism to be disruptive and give guys like Anfernee and myself the opportunity to play off the ball and not wear ourselves out on the defensive end of the floor every possession and then have to go score and make plays as much as we do offensively. On offense, he’s been able to score in isolation, transition, hit catch-and-shoot threes, and post up. He’s doing so many different things for us on both ends of the floor. He’s so versatile. It’s made us a much better team having him.”
–

 

[riverman]

Couldn't really find any place to put this.
Somehow this quote was unsettling for me. Maybe it jarred my sense of fairness. Will Grant someday get tired of making up for Lillard and Simons lack of height, athleticism and defensive energy?
“I think he’s added a layer to our team on both ends of the floor,” Lillard told HoopsHype before the Blazers faced the Nets at Barclays Center. “A lot of times, he’s taking the toughest matchup defensively. He’s using his size, length and athleticism to be disruptive and give guys like Anfernee and myself the opportunity to play off the ball and not wear ourselves out on the defensive end of the floor every possession and then have to go score and make plays as much as we do offensively. On offense, he’s been able to score in isolation, transition, hit catch-and-shoot threes, and post up. He’s doing so many different things for us on both ends of the floor. He’s so versatile. It’s made us a much better team having him.”
–

When Gary Payton gets on the court this will not be such an issue