Obamacare Taxes On The Middle Class

[BLAZER PROPHET]

http://moneymorning.com/ext/article...184415&utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=referral

Obamacare, and its barrage of over $1 trillion new taxes, is creeping into your paycheck.

These taxes aren’t just affecting those who make over $250,000. The majority of these taxes are hurting the middle class.

While these "stealth taxes" were designed to be taxes on businesses, they're actually transferred directly to ordinary citizens.

"Many of those [hidden] taxes, especially those on hospitals, insurers and medical device manufacturers, will ultimately be passed on through higher health costs," said Michael Tanner, an expert on the healthcare law.

*****

Add it all up, and some analysts estimate Obamacare will cost the average American nearly $6,000 extra in 2014

*****

The new Obamacare taxes are not what millions of middle-class Americans need right now. Incomes for the rich have soared this decade, but middle-class workers have seen their wages stagnate and even drop since the 2008 Great Recession...

They claim that the taxes and costs needed to pay for Obamacare will crush the middle class and most U.S. taxpayers, as well as trigger job losses in affected industries.

Obamacare, with its high insurance costs and new taxes, could provide the middle class a fatal blow.

*****

With the implementation of Obamacare underway, millions of Americans are asking what, if anything, they can do about all the new costs and rules.

One expert, Betsy McCaughey, former Lieutenant Governor of New York and constitutional scholar with a Ph.D. from Columbia University, recently wrote a best-selling book showing Americans how they can survive Obamacare.

McCaughey is one of the only people in the country who has actually read the entire 2,572 page law.

Her book, titled Beating Obamacare: Your Handbook for Surviving the New Health Care Law breaks down the complicated bill into 168 pages of actionable advice.

The book, written in an easy-going, easy-to-read style, shows some startling facts about Obamacare not seen in the mainstream press.

For example, she points to a little-known passage in the bill that shows how you could get slapped with a $2,000 fine for not having health insurance – even if you do actually have it.

In one chapter, she shows how ordinary Americans will get stuck paying for substance abuse coverage even if they never touched a drink or drug in their life.

She says that higher costs are only one negative of Obamacare. Doctors, nurses and other hospital employees will suffer from the government’s interference in healthcare.

In fact, corporations including GE, IBM, and Time Warner have already said they will stop providing insurance for hundreds of thousands of employees...

Several sections of the bill empower Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius to dictate what doctors can and cannot do.

And according to McCaughey’s research, senior citizens will get hit the hardest from Obamacare.

“If you’re a senior or a baby boomer, expect less care than in the past,” she says. “Hip and knee replacements and cataract surgery will be especially hard to get from Medicare in the months ahead.”

She warns seniors to get some of those types of procedures done now before Obamacare takes over, as Obamacare awards bonus points to hospitals that spend the least on seniors.

Lastly, many will find it difficult to keep their medical records private.

“The law will compel Americans to share with millions of strangers who are not physicians confidential private and personal medical history information they do not wish to share.”

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Not that I would ever defend anything Obama, but I have a few issues with this article:

• I find it odd that Obama and the ACA are being blamed for companies passing tax expenses on to their customers. Isn't that a choice being made by the businesses themselves?
• Doesn't economic theory essentially suggest that if the free market can't bear the additional passed-on costs, then those businesses who choose not to pass said costs through to their customers will reap a benefit greater than the costs they incur?
• Isn't the article's sub-title, "Obamacare, and its barrage of over $1 trillion new taxes, is creeping into your paycheck" a bit misleading, since the article actually indicates that the costs are going to increase the middle class' cost of living?
• Doesn't the middle of the article basically read like an advertisement for Betsy McCaughey's book?

 

[Denny Crane]

You made four points.

Businesses aren't in business to absorb expenses at the expense of profits.

No. You can sell a widget for $1 that costs you $2 to make, but doing it in volume isn't going to make it work out for you.

He edited out the part of the article about how it affects your paycheck:

Starting in 2014, there are 13 new Obamacare taxes and regulations to deal with.

These include the individual mandate, a higher “insurance industry fee” driving up premiums, and a new 3.5% monthly fee on policy premiums purchased on the federal exchange.

Add it all up, and some analysts estimate Obamacare will cost the average American nearly $6,000 extra in 2014.

Yes, it looks like an ad for a book.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Not that I would ever defend anything Obama, but I have a few issues with this article:

• I find it odd that Obama and the ACA are being blamed for companies passing tax expenses on to their customers. Isn't that a choice being made by the businesses themselves?
• Doesn't economic theory essentially suggest that if the free market can't bear the additional passed-on costs, then those businesses who choose not to pass said costs through to their customers will reap a benefit greater than the costs they incur?
• Isn't the article's sub-title, "Obamacare, and its barrage of over $1 trillion new taxes, is creeping into your paycheck" a bit misleading, since the article actually indicates that the costs are going to increase the middle class' cost of living?
• Doesn't the middle of the article basically read like an advertisement for Betsy McCaughey's book?

1) True
2) I don't know
3) No, not really
4) Hmmm, I don't read ol' Betsy

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Businesses aren't in business to absorb expenses at the expense of profits.

Of course businesses aren't in business for that purpose, but here's how I'm reading that aspect of the article:

• If Obamacare costs middle class people more money, then it is bad
• Any expense charged to a business is really a cost to the customer
• Obamacare costs businesses money
• The businesses will pass those costs to the customers
• Therefore, Obamacare is bad

The problem with that logic is that it then can be extended to mean that business taxes are bad, employee benefits are bad, higher wages are bad, environmental regulations are bad, etc. All those things cost businesses money, and are passed on to the customers as well. All I'm saying with this is that it's a very simplistic point being made by the writer of the article.

No. You can sell a widget for $1 that costs you $2 to make, but doing it in volume isn't going to make it work out for you.

Your $1 price/$2 cost example is blatantly disingenuous. I'm talking about elasticity of demand. I'm no MaxieP, but this is how I see it: Companies A & B each sell 20,000 units of competing products at $2/unit each, with $1/unit COGS. COGS for each company increases to $1.10. Company A increases price to $2.10 to cover additional COGS; company B remains at $2. If company B's lower price causes 2,000 customers to switch to them away from company A, then company B benefits overall due to an elastic market. If only 500 would switch, then they don't realize a benefit, and would also then raise their price to compensate.

My contention is that if the demand for health insurance is too inelastic for a company to benefit from a lower price than its competitors, then the free market is indicating that the price increase isn't really a significant issue to the consumers of that market.

 

[porkchopexpress]

Of course businesses aren't in business for that purpose, but here's how I'm reading that aspect of the article:

• If Obamacare costs middle class people more money, then it is bad
• Any expense charged to a business is really a cost to the customer
• Obamacare costs businesses money
• The businesses will pass those costs to the customers
• Therefore, Obamacare is bad

The problem with that logic is that it then can be extended to mean that business taxes are bad, employee benefits are bad, higher wages are bad, environmental regulations are bad, etc. All those things cost businesses money, and are passed on to the customers as well. All I'm saying with this is that it's a very simplistic point being made by the writer of the article.



Your $1 price/$2 cost example is blatantly disingenuous. I'm talking about elasticity of demand. I'm no MaxieP, but this is how I see it: Companies A & B each sell 20,000 units of competing products at $2/unit each, with $1/unit COGS. COGS for each company increases to $1.10. Company A increases price to $2.10 to cover additional COGS; company B remains at $2. If company B's lower price causes 2,000 customers to switch to them away from company A, then company B benefits overall due to an elastic market. If only 500 would switch, then they don't realize a benefit, and would also then raise their price to compensate.

My contention is that if the demand for health insurance is too inelastic for a company to benefit from a lower price than its competitors, then the free market is indicating that the price increase isn't really a significant issue to the consumers of that market.

You're talking to Denny. To him, all of those things ARE bad.

 

[Denny Crane]

Not exactly.

Obama promised ObamaCare would save the average family $2500/year. So it's not at all what was promised if it costs middle class people more money.

Any expense charged to a business is in effect a broad tax on everyone. Even if the business eats 99% of the expense.

Businesses are the tax collectors. They write big checks to the government all year long to pay for employees' social security and withholding taxes, etc. So, government costs businesses money in general. ObamaCare targets various businesses for higher expense, though. Are they appropriate targets? Maybe the answer is in all the exemptions they've been handing out to their constituents.

Here's a list of companies given exemptions:

Spoiler

24 Hour Fitness
Allied Building Inspectors IUOE Local 211 Welfare Fund
Alpha Omega Home Health, LLC
Andersen Corporation
Bowman Sheet Metal Heating & Air-conditioning
Bricklayers Insurance & Welfare Fund
Bridge, Structural, Ornamental & Reinforcing Ironworkers Local Union No. 60*
Carey Johnson Oil Co, Inc
Catholic Charities of the Diocese of Albany*
Cement Masons' Local No. 502 Welfare Fund
City of Bloomington VEBA Health Savings Plan*
City of Burnsville*
City of Olathe*
Clausen Miller PC
Crystal Run Village, Inc*
Delta Apparel
Discovery Benefits*
Dr. Trailer Repair, Inc.
Employer-Teamsters Local Nos. 175 & 505 Health and Welfare Fund
Entrust
Fabri-Quilt
GC Harvesting, Inc.
Glen Curtis, Inc. #2143
Heritage Christian Services
IBEW Local 3 NYC Electrical Division Health & Welfare Fund
Indiana Area UFCW Union Locals and Retail Food Employers' Health and Welfare Plan
Ingham County
Innovative Driver Services Company
Integrity Data*
Inter-County Hospitalization Plan, Inc.
Jakov P. Dulcich & Sons
Jefferson Rehabilitation Center
JLG Harvesting, Inc.
Johnson Machine Works
Kent County
Laborers' District Council of Virginia Health and Welfare Trust Fund
Laborers National Health and Welfare Fund
Local 1245 Health Fund
Local 237 Teamsters Suffolk Regional Off-Track Betting Corp. Health and Welfare Trust Fund
Local 295 Welfare Fund
Local 381 Group Insurance Fund
Local 805 Welfare Fund
Marble Industry Trust Fund
McGregor Schools ISD #4*
MJ Soffe
MO-Kan Teamsters and Welfare Fund
Mounds View Public Schools*
MVP
North State Bank
North States Industries Inc*
Pathways Inc.
Pavers and Road Builders District Council Welfare Fund
Phoenix Children's Academy
Roofers Local 8 Insurance & Trust Fund
San Bernardino IHSS Public Authority
SCC Healthcare Group, LLP
Schenectady ARC*
Schoharie County ARC*
Sieben Polk Law Firm
Sitel, Inc.
Southern Graphic Communication Health Fund
Springbrook Standalone HRA*
St. Lawrence NYSARC*
Sunview Vineyards of California, Inc.
Tandem Eastern Inc. / Consolidated Transport Systems, Inc.
Taylor Farms
Teamsters Union Local # 35
The Day Care Council/Council of Supervisors and Administrators Welfare Fund
The Public Authority of San Luis Obispo County
The University Financing Foundation, Inc.
The Village of Newark Non-Union Employee Plan*
Theatrical Stage Employees Local One
Tuff Shed, Inc.
U.A. Local 13 & Employers Group Insurance Plan*
UFCW & Participating Food Industry Employers Tri-State Health & Welfare Fund
UFCW Local 1500 Welfare Fund
UFCW Local One Health Care Fund
Ulster Greene ARC*
Westminster-Canterbury of Lynchburg
Wine and Liquor Salesmen of NJ
A-1 Transport
AIDS Council of Northeastern New York
Avon Central School District
Azeros Health Plans, Inc.*
Benton County*
Bessey Tools, Inc.
Canandaigua City Schools*
City of Eagan*
City of Shakopee Post-Employment Health Care Savings Account Plan *
Community Work and Independence Inc.
Continuing Developmental Services
Crystal Cabinet Works, Inc.
CU*Answers, Inc.
Euromarket Designs, Inc., d/b/a Crate and Barrel
First National Bank of Dietrerich
Franziska Racker Centers*
Fridley Public Schools Health Savings Plan*
FSA/SUNYAB-Campus Dining and Shops
Genesee County ARC*
Genesee County Economic Development Corp Health Reimbursement Account*
Grand Island Central School District*
Hammondsport Central School District
Imperial Wholesale, Inc.
Learning Disabilities Association of Western New York
Minnesota State Retirement System Post-Employment Health Care Savings Plan - City of Roseville*
Naples Central School District
Naples Central School District Support Staff
Newark Central School District
Niagara-Wheatfield CSD Self Funded
Panama Central School District
People 1st Health Strategies, Inc.
Pipe Fitters' Welfare Fund, Local 597*
Ron Clark Construction Health reimbursement Arrangement*
Sherman Central School District
Silver Creek Central School District*
Sodus Central School District
Telco Construction
Town of Albion
Town of Chenango
Town of Lockport
Twin City Die Casting*
Western Area Volunteer Emergency Services *
Westfield Academy*
Williamson Central School District
American Radio Association Plan
Carpenters Health and Security Trust of Western Washington
Communicare Health Benefits Trust
District Council 1707 Local 389 Home Care Employees Health & Welfare Fund
Health and Welfare Plan of the Laundry, Dry Cleaning Workers & Allied Industry Health Fund, Workers United
Northern Illinois and Iowa Laborers Health and Welfare Fund
Prell Services
United Food and Commercial Workers Retail Employees and Employers Health and Welfare Plan
A-1 Realty*
AABR*
ABCO Diecasters*
Alfred P. Sloan*
Alizio & Galfunt*
All American Heating and AC*
Allied Pilots Association
Amherst Central School District*
AristaCare at Meadow Springs*
Arthur Sanderson& Sons*
Associated General Contractors of ND Employees*
Autistic Service, Inc.*
Bartech Group
Basf Fuel Cell, Inc.*
Battery Park City Authority*
Battery Park City Conservancy*
Benefit Analysis Inc.*
Blaze SSI*
Blue Beacon
Board of Trustees for the Operating Engineers Local 101 Health and Welfare Fund
Business Wire*
Cargo Ventures*
Carnegie Corporation of NY*
Carpenters Local No. 491 Health & Welfare Plan
Central Laborers' Welfare Fund
Central States, Southeast and Southwest Areas Health and Welfare Fund
City of Cottage Grove*
City of Inver Grove Heights*
City Of Roseville MN*
Clinton Management*
Cloquet Area Fire Department*
Cohen Partners*
Community Bank of Bergen County*
Community Mainstreaming*
Contract Cleaners Service Employees Benefit Trust
Cornerstone Search Group*
D & D Ag Supply and Construction, Inc.*
Dial Senior Management, Inc
Douglaston Development*
Dr. Margaret Andrin, MD FACOG LLC*
Dynasil Corporation*
Echo Molding*
Eighth District Electrical Benefit Fund
Electrical Workers Health and Welfare Fund
Enterprise Concrete Products, LLC Texas
Epilepsy Foundation*
Epilepsy Foundation Northeastern New York*
Evans Chemetics*
Excellus Health Plan
Fairport Central School District*
Goodwill Industries of Central Indiana
Gregory Packaging*
Gulf Coast Health Care
Handcraft Manufacturing Corporation*
Haver Analytics Health Waiver*
Health Care Employees Dental and Medical Trust
Hiawatha Medical, Inc.*
Highfield Gardens Care Center*
Hirsch International*
Hotel, Restaurant & Bar Employees Health and Welfare Fund
Hypex Inc.*
IBEW Local Union No. 126 Health and Welfare Fund
International Union of Operating Engineers, Supplemental Benefit Fund Local 409*
Interstate Connecting Components*
Jacobson Family Investments*
J-B Wholesale Pet Supplies*
JKL International*
Jump, Scutellaro, and Co., LLP*
KC International dba Ekman Recycling*
Kerwin Communications*
Kingstown Capital Management*
Koellman Gear Corporation*
Kramer Electronics*
Lakeview Subacute Care Center*
Langan Engineering and Financial Services, Inc.*
LBDD*
League of Minnesota Cities*
Leisure Properties LLC d/b/a/ Crownline Boats*
Liberty House Nursing Home*
Lifetime Assistance, Inc*
Lincoln Hall*
Local 888 UFCW
Maharishi University of Management
Mamiya America Corporation*
Mandt Reiss & Associates PLLC
Margaret P. Muscarelle Child Dev. Center*
Merrill Farms LLC
Micelli Motors, Inc.*
Midwest Asphalt Corporation *
Midwest Teamsters
Monroe County*
Nassau County Chapter, NYSARC, Inc*
NCHC, Inc.*
New York State Assn. for Retarded Children Erie Co. Chapter dba/Heritage Centers*
NJ Society of CPAs*
North Greece Fire District*
Northern Minnesota-Wisconsin Area Retail Food Health & Welfare Fund
Ogontz Avenue Revitalization Corporation*
Parkview Care and Rehab*
PCB Machining Solutions*
PCB Piezotronics*
Philadelphia Macaroni Company*
Phoenix Partners Group, LP*
Privilege Underwriters, Inc.*
Progressive AE*
Quadrant Capital Advisors, Inc.*
Regency Management Group, LLC*
Rhoads Industries*
Roofers Local #96 Health & Welfare Fund
Rowe and Company, Inc.*
Rush-Henrietta Central School District HRA*
Security Benefit Fund of the Uniformed Firefighters Association of New York City
SEIU Health and Welfare fund, 2000
Seneca Cayuga ARC*
Service Employees 32BJ North Health Benefit Fund*
Sierra Video Systems*
SMEG*
Strategic Industries*
Superior Officers Council Health and Welfare Fund
Teamsters Local Union 966 Health Fund
Techno Source USA*
The Alternative Living Group, Inc.*
The Arc of Otsego (Otsego County Chapter NYSARC, Inc.)*
The Arc of Rensselaer County*
The City of Cloquet*
The Henry Luce Foundation*
The Maritime Aquarium of Norwalk, Inc.*
The Pew Charitable Trusts*
The Rehabilitation Center*
The Robert Wood Johnson Foundation*
Topco*
Totino Grace High School*
Urstadt Biddle Properties*
W.H. Reaves & Co., Inc.*
Walder, Hayden & Brogan, PA*
Walters-Morgan Construction, Inc.
Wellspring Advisors*
West Bergen Mental Healthcare*
Westchester ARC*
Westchester JCS*
Western Beef*
Hollow Metal Trust Fund
Theatrical Teamsters Local 817 IBT Welfare Fund
Vestal Manufacturing Enterprises, Inc.
AccessAbility, Inc.
Ackerman Oil Employee Benefit Trust
Albany County Chapter, NYSARC Inc., DBA New Visions of Albany*
American Eagle Outfitters
Basin Disposal
Bengard Ranch, Inc.
Bestway Rental, Inc
Big Lots, Inc.
Byrd Harvest, Inc.
Cardinal Hayes Home for Children HRA plan*
CDS Administrative Services, LLC
Center for Energy and Environment*
City of Brooklyn Park*
D'Arrigo Bros. Co. of California
Defender Services, Inc.
DineEquity, Inc
Green Leaf Distributors, Inc.
IBEW Local Union No. 728 Family Healthcare Plan
Joseph Gallo Farms
Life Benefit Plan
Luther Automotive Group HRA*
Metrics Inc.
Nueces County Appraisal District
Ocean Properties Ltd
P-R Farms, Inc.
SEIU Health & Welfare Fund
Sports Arena Employees' Local 137 Welfare Fund
Staywell Saipan Basic Plan
Truck Drivers and Helpers Local 355 Health and Welfare Fund
Communications Workers of America, Local 1180 Security Benefits Fund
Health and Welfare Fund of the Detectives' Endowment Association, Inc. Police Department City of New York
Man-U Service Contract Health and Welfare Fund
Paschall Truck Lines, Inc.
SEIU Local 300, Civil Service Forum Employees Welfare Fund
Electrical Welfare Trust Fund
Highmark West Virginia Inc. d/b/a Mountain State Blue Cross Blue Shield
Advocacy and Resource Center*
Amalgamated, Industrial and Toy & Novelty Workers of America, Local 223 Sick Benefit Fund
Atlanta Plumbers & Steamfitters Fringe Benefit Funds
Aurora Consulting Group, Inc.*
Brock Enterprises, Inc.
Central Texas Health and Benefit Trust Fund Locals 520, 60 & 72
Electricians Health, Welfare & Pension Plans I.B.E.W. Local Union No. 995
Essex County Chapter NYSARC, Inc. dba Mountain Lake Services*
Executive Management Services, Inc.
Florida Laborers Health Fund
Fulton County Chapter NYSARC, Inc.*
General Parts, LLC*
Greystone program, Inc*
Hacienda Harvesting, Inc.
IBEW Local No. 640 and Arizona Chapter NECA Health & Welfare Trust Fund
Lone Star Park at Grand Prairie
Louisiana Electrical Health Fund
Maverick, Inc. Employee Health Care Benefits Plan
Memphis Construction Benefit Fund
Mid-South Carpenters Regional Council Health and Welfare Fund
Mountain Lake Services
NECA-IBEW Local 480 Health and Welfare Plan
Plumbers and Pipefitters Welfare Fund of Local Union No. 719
Retiree Plan of the Central States, Southeast and Southwest Areas Health and Welfare Fund
Richmond Community Services*
Sheet Metal Workers Local No. 177 Health and Welfare, Pension and Vacation Funds
Sheet Metal Workers' National Health Fund
South Central Laborers' Health & Welfare Fund
Southeastern Pipetrades Health & Welfare Fund
Telamon Corporation Health Reimbursement Arrangement*
The ARC of Delaware County*
UFCW Local 1262 and Employers Health & Welfare Fund
United Cerebral Palsy of Ulster County, Inc*
Vincent B Zaninovich & Sons, Inc.
Wayne ARC Standalone HRA Section 105 Plan*
Wildwood Program*
Allied Welfare Fund
Becker County Post-Retirement Health Care Savings Plan*
Becker County VEBA*
FIDUCIA*
Triple-S Salud, Inc.
B. R. Company
Britz Companies, ET AL
Century Health and Wellness Benefit Plan and Trust
EBSA Foundation
Encore Enterprises
Faurecia USA Holdings
Goodwill Industries of Kentucky, Inc.
Minnesota Cement Masons Health and Welfare Fund
Plumbers Local Union No. 690 of Philadelphia and Vicinity Health Plan
Robert Heath Trucking Inc
Securitas Security Services USA, Inc.
Sunwest Fruit Company, Inc
The Louis Berger Group, Inc.
United Food & Commercial Workers Unions and Employers Midwest Health Benefits Fund
WD Young& Sons, Inc.
Atlantis Casino Resort Spa
United Food and Commercial Workers and Employers Arizona
Act Trust Mini-Med Plan
Allen's Family Food
Anderson Media Corporation
Blasters, Drillers & Miners Union Local No. 29 Welfare Fund
Care Initiatives, Inc.
Cement and Concrete Workers District Council Welfare Fund Plan
COARC*
Construction Workers Local 147 Welfare Fund
Crystal Run Healthcare
Diamondback Management Services, LTD
Freeman Metal Products
Hardwick Clothes, Inc.
Hronis, Inc.
International Union of Bricklayers & Allied Craftworkers
Isaacson Isaacson Seridan & Fountain, LLP
Katy Industries, Inc.
Landscape, Irrigation and Lawn Sprinkler Industry Health and Welfare Plan and Trust
Local 298 Health Benefit Fund Plan
Local 803 Health and Welfare Fund
Louisiana Laborers Health and Welfare Fund
M.A. Mortenson
Maple Knoll Communities
Marshall Durbin Food Corporation
Minnesota Teamsters Construction Division
Name Brand, Inc.
Oklahoma Goodwill Industries
PepsiCo, Inc
Plumbers & Pipefitters Local Union 823 Health & Welfare Fund
Plumbers & Steamfitters Local No. 6 Health and Welfare Fund
Regent Care Center
Rice Food Markets, Inc.
Rice Food Markets, Inc.
Ricker Oil Company
Skilled Health Care
Southwestern Teamsters Security Fund
Teamsters Local 445 Welfare Plan
Teamsters Local 210 Affiliated Health and Insurance Fund
Teamsters Welfare Fund of Northern New Jersey Local 1723
The Durango Herald
The Talbots, Inc
Town of Frisco Medical Plan
Tudor Ranch
UNITE HERE Local 74 Welfare and Dental Trust
United Employees Health Plans
United Food and Commercial Workers Union Local 1000 and Kroger Dallas Health and Welfare Plan
United Service Employees Union, Local 377, RWDSU, UFCW
WageWorks, Inc
IBEW Local 613 and Contributing Employers Family Health Plan (Union)
Advantage Benefits Company, LLC
Aerospace Contractors' Trust**
AJFC Community Action Plan**
Altisource Portfolio Solutions
American Heritage Life Insurance Company
Americare Properties, Inc.
AMN Healthcare
Andrews Transport L.P.**
Anoka Hennepin Credit Union* **
APWU Health Plan Conversion Plan
Aspen Snowmass**
ATCO Rubber Products, Inc
Baylor County Hospital District
Belk Farms**
Bricklayers Local 1 of MD, VA and DC
Cardon & Associates, Inc**
Catholic Charities of the Diocese of Ogdensburg
Central Mills**
Civil Service Bar Association Security Benefit Fund**
Cotton Belt Inc.**
CPC Logistics Health & Welfare Plan**
Delmarva United Food and Commercial Workers**
Dole Food Company**
EchoStar**
First Acceptance Corporation
Fontanese Folts Aubrecht Ernst Architects, PC**
Forest Products Inc. Group Health Plan**
Fruhauf Uniform Direct Labor
Golden State Bulb Growers, Inc.**
Greater Kansas City Laborers Welfare Fund**
Grower's Transport LLC
Heartland Automotive**
Helfman Enterprises, Inc.**
Hoosier Stamping and Manufacturing Corp.
Horizon Bay Realty LLC**
I.B.E.W. Local 1249 Insurance Fund**
Ingomar Packing Company, LLC
Integra Healthcare, Inc. (Integrity Home Care)**
International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers**
International Brotherhood of Trade Unions Health and Welfare Fund - Local 713
International Union of Operating Engineers Local 295-295C Welfare Trust Fund**
International union of Operating Engineers, Local Union Number 137**
Iron Workers Local Union #28 Health and Welfare Fund**
Lamanuzzi & Pantaleo**
Living Resources**
Local 1102 Amalgamated Welfare Fund
Local 1102 Health & Benefit Fund
Local 1102 Welfare Fund-- Lerner Employees
Local 272 Welfare Fund**
Local 338 Affiliated Benefit Funds
Madelia Community Hospital**
Max Homes, Loc**
Medical Development Corporation**
Mesa Air Group**
Mesa Packing**
Michigan Conference of Teamsters Welfare Fund**
Minnesota and North Dakota Bricklayers and Allied Craftworkers**
Mission Linen Supply
NFI Industries
Operating Engineers Local 835 Health and Welfare Fund
Opportunity Resources, Inc. Health and Welfare Plan
Orange County AHRC* **
Orscheln Industries
Pacific Risk Management**
Pearson Candy Company
Pinnacle PRM**
Plumbers and Pipefitters Local 430 Health and Welfare Fund**
Progressive Logistics Services**
Pure Air Filter Sales & Service**
Rancho Maria PRM**
Reiter Affiliated Companies**
Retail, Wholesale & Dept. Store Union Local 1034 Welfare Fund
Rio Farms PRM**
Sensient Technologies Corp.
Service Employees International Union Local 1 Cleveland Welfare Fund
SFN Group
Sheet Metal Workers Funds of Local Union 38**
SMWIA 28**
Southeast OBGYN, PC* **
Southern CA Pipe Trades Trust Fund
Southern Operators Health Fund**
Stonebridge Hospitality Associates**
Sun Healthcare Group, Inc.
Teamsters Local 522 Welfare Fund Roofers Division
Teamsters Local Union 72 Welfare Fund**
Telesis Management Corporation
Texas Carpenters and Millwrights Health and Welfare Fund
The Mentor Network
The Wada Farms, Inc.
The Wilks Group, Inc. dba Ashley Furniture Homestore
The Wright Travel Agency**
Town of Grand Island* **
Trans-System, Inc.
True Leaf Farms**
UFCW Local 371 Amalgamated Welfare Fund**
United Crafts Benefits Fund**
United Food & Commercial Workers Unions and Employers Local No. 348 Health & Welfare Fund**
United Food and Commercial Workers Local 1445 New Hampshire
United Food and Commercial Workers Local 1459 and Contributing Employers Health and Welfare Fund**
United Food and Commercial Workers Local 464a**
United Food and Commercial Workers Local 911**
Varsity Contractors, Inc.
Waffle House
Weckworth Manufacturing**
Western Express, Inc.
Western Harvesting PRM Health Plan**
WG Yates and Sons Construction Company**
World Class Automotive**
Yukon-Kuskokwim Health Corporation**
Alaska Pipe Trade U.A. Local 367 Health and Security Trust**
Amalgamated National Health Fund
American Farms, PRM Health Plan**
American Growers Cooling, PRM Health Plan**
AUTO, LP, dba AutoInc. Health Benefit Plan**
Better Way Partners, LLC**
Big Valley Labor, PRM Health Plan**
CB Harvesting, PRM Health Plan**
City of Rockwall**
Cocopah Nurseries, Inc.
Express Harvesting, PRM Health Plan**
Fallen Oak Packing, PRM Health Plan**
FirstCarolinaCare Insurance Company on behalf of Longworth Industries
Foot Locker, Inc.**
Fresh Express
G&H Farms, PRM Health Plan**
Gill Ranch, PRM Health Plan**
Gill Transport, PRM Health Plan**
Gills Onions, PRM Health Plan**
Green Valley Farm Supply, PRM Health Plan**
Greencroft Communities
Growers Express, PRM Health Plan**
Hall Management Group, Inc.**
IH Services**
Independent Group Home Living Program, Inc.
King City Nursery, PRM Health Plan**
Meijer Health Benefits Plan/Primary Care Option
Mission Ranches, PRM Health Plan**
Moore's Retread & Tire of the Ark-La-Tex, Inc.
NOITU Insurance Trust Fund**
Payroll Solutions
Plumbers and Pipefitters Local No. 630 Welfare Fund
Seco Packing
Transcorr
United Food and Commercial Workers Union Local 1000
United Wire, Metal & Machine Health & Welfare Fund**
Western Growers Assurance Trust
Wisconsin United Food & Commercial Workers Unions and Employers Health Plan**
1199SEIU Greater New York Benefit Fund
A. Duda & Sons, Inc.
Adecco Group, Inc.
Biomedic Corporation
Buffets, Inc.
Carington Health System
Cleveland Bakers Teamsters
Club Chef LLC
Columbia Sussex Mgmt, LLC
CRST International Inc.
Darr Equipment, Co.
DC Cement Masons Welfare Fund
Deaconess Long Term Care
Diamond Comic Distributors, Inc.
ECOM Atlantic, Inc.
FW Walton, Inc.
G4S Secure Solutions
GC Services, L.P. & First Community Bancshares, Inc.
Guardsmark, LLC
Indiana Teamsters Health Benefits Fund
Knox County Association for Retarded Citizens
Laundry and Dry Cleaning Workers Local No. 52
Mars Super Markets, Inc.
MPS Group, Inc.
Nexion Health
Noodles & Company
Pharmaca Integrative Pharmacy
Quality Integrated Services, Inc.
RE Rabalais Constructors, LTD
RREMC LLC
Security Forces Inc.
Shirkey Nursing
Social Service Employees Union Local 371
Spindle, Cooling, & Warehouse
Strauss Discount Auto
Sunburst Hospitality
Susser Holding Corp
Telescope Casual Furniture
Teletech Holdings, Inc.
The Brinkman Corporation
The LDF Companies
United Food and Commercial Workers Union (Mount Laurel, NJ)
United Food and Commercial Workers Union Local 1459
Universal Orlando
Valley Services, Inc.
United Food and Commercial Workers and Participating Employers Interstate Health and Welfare Fund
Protocol Marketing Group
Sasnak
Star Tek
Adventist Care Centers
B.E.S.T of NY
Boskovich Farms, Inc
Café Enterprises, Inc.
Capital District Physicians
FleetPride, Inc.
Gallegos Corp
Hensley Industries, Inc.
Jeffords Steel and Engineering
Laborers' International Union of North America Local Union No. 616 Health and Welfare Plan
O.K. Industries
Service Employees Benefit Fund
Sun Pacific Farming Coop
SunWorld International, LLC
UFCW Allied Trade Health & Welfare Trust
United Food and Commercial Workers Union Local 1995
HCR Manor Care
IBEW No.915
Integra BMS for Culp, Inc.
New England Health Care Employees Welfare Fund †
Wiliamson-Dickie Manufacturing Company
Aegis Security Insurance Company †
Alliance One Tobacco
Asbestos Workers Local 53 Welfare Fund
Assurant Health (2nd Application)
Captain Elliot's Party Boats
Carlson Restaurants
CH Guenther & Son
CKM Industries dba Miller Environmental
Caribbean Workers’ Voluntary Employees’ Beneficiary Health and Welfare Plan †
Darden Restaurants
Duarte Nursery
Employees Security Fund
Florida Trowel Trades
Ingles Markets
Meijer
O'Reilly Auto Parts
Plumbers & Pipefitters Local 123 Welfare Fund
Sun Belt
UFCW Local 227
Uncle Julio's
United Group
US Imaging
Vino Farms
AdvantaStaff, Inc. †
Agricare
Alaska Seafood
American Fidelity
Convergys
Darensberries
Gowan Company
Greystar
Macayo Restaurants
Periodical Services
UniFirst
Universal Forest Products
UFCW Maximus Local 455
American Habilitation Services, Inc. †
GuideStone Financial Resources
Local 25 SEIU
MAUSER Corp.
Preferred Care, Inc.
Ruby Tuesday
The Dixie Group, Inc.
UFCW Local 1262
Whelan Security Company
AMF Bowling Worldwide
Assisted Living Concepts
Case & Associates
GPM Investments
Grace Living Centers
Mountaire Corporation †
Swift Spinning
Belmont Village
Caliber Services
Cracker Barrel
DISH Network
Groendyke Transport, Inc
Pocono Medical Center
Regis Corporation
The Pictsweet Co.
Diversified Interiors
Local 802 Musicians Health Fund
MCS Life Insurance Company †
The Buccaneer
CIGNA
Greater Metropolitan Hotel
Local 17 Hospitality Benefit Fund
GSC-ILA
The Allied Industries Health Fund
Harden Healthcare
Vernon Sheltered Workshop, Inc. Health and Welfare Plan #501
I.U.P.A.T
Sanderson Plumbing Products, Inc.
Transport Workers
United Federation of Teachers Welfare Fund
Aegis
Aetna
Allflex
Baptist Retirement
BCS Insurance
Cryogenic
Fowler Packing Co.
Guy C. Lee Mfg.
HealthPort
Jack in the Box
Maritime Association
Maverick County
Metropolitan D.C. Paving Industry Employees Health and Welfare Fund
PMPS-ILA
PS-ILA
QK/DRD (Denny's)
Reliance Standard
Tri-Pak
United Agricultural Benefit Trust ††

The $1 price/$2 cost example is to make a point. Your example is flawed, though. Typical net margins for businesses are under 10%. Your $2 item has $.20 of profit. If they cut the price by 10%, they'll be making $.10 profit, no? Close to that $1/$2 deal.

If your understanding of elasticity of demand is true, then why do we need ACA at all? Wouldn't insurance companies be cutting their prices so 2,000 guys would switch?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Moda health insurance pays 40 million dollars to endorse the Blazers and we want to blame Obama for the health care industry raising prices?

 

[Denny Crane]

Moda health insurance pays 40 million dollars to endorse the Blazers and we want to blame Obama for the health care industry raising prices?

A good read: http://www.thelundreport.org/content/moda’s-vast-pool-resources-makes-rose-garden-affordable

 

[PtldPlatypus]

If your understanding of elasticity of demand is true, then why do we need ACA at all?

We don't. What I'm saying is that the article is blaming the government for what is essentially free-market dynamics. But I've never been in favor of the ACA, even a little bit.

 

[Denny Crane]

We don't. What I'm saying is that the article is blaming the government for what is essentially free-market dynamics. But I've never been in favor of the ACA, even a little bit.

There aren't free market dynamics though.

I see TV commercials for insurance all the time. It only takes 7.5 minutes to save money! Or you can use those other guys where it takes 15 minutes.

These guys are undercutting each other to get auto insurance business.

Why isn't this true for health insurance? Because there aren't free market dynamics. The buyer isn't the insured. The patient isn't paying the bills - so they don't shop for lower prices.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

There aren't free market dynamics though.

I see TV commercials for insurance all the time. It only takes 7.5 minutes to save money! Or you can use those other guys where it takes 15 minutes.

These guys are undercutting each other to get auto insurance business.

Why isn't this true for health insurance? Because there aren't free market dynamics. The buyer isn't the insured. The patient isn't paying the bills - so they don't shop for lower prices.

Amusing that the example you use of the free market at work in insurance is the area of the industry where government has stepped in and required people to purchase it. Are you now arguing in favor of the individual mandate?

 

[barfo]

There aren't free market dynamics though.

I see TV commercials for insurance all the time. It only takes 7.5 minutes to save money! Or you can use those other guys where it takes 15 minutes.

These guys are undercutting each other to get auto insurance business.

Why isn't this true for health insurance? Because there aren't free market dynamics. The buyer isn't the insured. The patient isn't paying the bills - so they don't shop for lower prices.

Why should someone who isn't paying the bills shop for lower prices? Someone is paying the bills and they are shopping for lower prices. You might not see commercials for lower rates on health insurance, but there is price competition. Much of health insurance is purchased by employers, and employers don't shop based on TV commercials (as much). That doesn't mean they don't do price comparisons.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Amusing that the example you use of the free market at work in insurance is the area of the industry where government has stepped in and required people to purchase it. Are you now arguing in favor of the individual mandate?

The government doesn't mandate life or fire or other insurance, and the same market forces exist there.

See: http://www.progressive.com/lp/ps-ge...true&adid=12731310111&adpos=1t1&psd=c&adnet=g

Life insurance is almost certain to pay out huge sums on every policy. More payout than health insurance a lot of the time.

 

[Denny Crane]

Why should someone who isn't paying the bills shop for lower prices? Someone is paying the bills and they are shopping for lower prices. You might not see commercials for lower rates on health insurance, but there is price competition. Much of health insurance is purchased by employers, and employers don't shop based on TV commercials (as much). That doesn't mean they don't do price comparisons.

barfo

Why should someone who isn't paying the bills get any product or service at all?

Geez.

That's what's wrong with the whole mess. ObamaCare doesn't address "CARE" it addresses "making us all pay big bucks to insurance companies."

 

[barfo]

Why should someone who isn't paying the bills get any product or service at all?

Because they are contributing their labor to those that are paying for it, and this is part of their compensation?

EDIT: there are plenty of things wrong with the employer-based system we have, and I'd like to see it abolished. But it's simply not accurate to say that because the employees don't need to care about the cost of insurance, there's no free market at work in the insurance industry.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Because they are contributing their labor to those that are paying for it, and this is part of their compensation?

EDIT: there are plenty of things wrong with the employer-based system we have, and I'd like to see it abolished. But it's simply not accurate to say that because the employees don't need to care about the cost of insurance, there's no free market at work in the insurance industry.

barfo

The patient isn't making the choices.

The auto insurance buyer is choosing his insurer and the guy to fix dents.

Insurance is not actual care. ACA is not about care, or even controlling prices.

There is no free market at work in health insurance. There is a market, but it is a distortion. Not free. Poisoned by government.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

The patient isn't making the choices.

The auto insurance buyer is choosing his insurer and the guy to fix dents.

Insurance is not actual care. ACA is not about care, or even controlling prices.

There is no free market at work in health insurance. There is a market, but it is a distortion. Not free. Poisoned by government.

I'd rep you for this, but I don't rep mods or higher ups.

 

[maxiep]

[video=youtube;2AMHnzN24EM]

Hilarious that the morons that voted for him bought this line.

 

[riverman]

There's still a middle class?