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KingSpeed

KingSpeed

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I feel like I've given up on him. It just occurred to me now to check his unimpressive stat line, he hardly did anything. We go to him a couple times at the top of the game and that's it. I know he was in foul trouble but 4 pts and 1 rebound is still underwhelming for a guy his size. And he was a -14. Am I supposed to write off this season when it comes to him? Wait til next year to judge the guy?
 
give him time. he is inconsistent. you know, that happens to rookies(shouldnt happen to 6 yr vets).
 
You could probably look at it from the perspective of "touches in scoring position". You know, the PG's job?

It's not like he went 1-14 or something. He was 2-3 in 13 minutes. He was frequently the only Blazer in the paint (with 3 DET players) fighting for rebounds during those 13 minutes. When he was passed the ball in position, he got points or fouls on the other guy. When we jacked up shots that weren't going down, and not rebounding, then he was 1-on-3 getting boards. Kind of tough, even for a man-child.

And all the DET C's and PFs combined scored 25 points in 93 minutes. You're going to put that -14 on Greg? Are you actually serious? Do you need a play-by-play of those 13 minutes? I submit that a) if you're a big man who's not getting the ball in order to score, b) your teammates are not scoring, and c) your SF and guards are getting torched by the opposition, then you will accrue a large negative +/- number.

However, if one is using that +/- number to denigrate individual performances outside the context of what actually happened, then IMO that's misleading and trying to invent controversy. Just mho, that's all.
 
I hear ya Brian. I'm just wondering when the excuses stop. Next year, I guess.


Love the crab photo, BRoy. How did that guy get his hands on a crab costume?
 
KingSpeed said:
I hear ya Brian. I'm just wondering when the excuses stop. Next year, I guess.


Love the crab photo, BRoy. How did that guy get his hands on a crab costume?
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No clue. I'm guessing he made it.
 
Job One for the Pistons tonight was to attack Oden and get him in foul trouble. That's not the sign of a player who doesn't matter.

We all knew that foul trouble was going to be GO's biggest issue. When he can't get into a groove, he stays passive. It's the job of the PG to get him going at that point.
 
KingSpeed said:
I'm just wondering when the excuses stop.
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Excuses aren't necessary. He's been performing just fine on the season. He had a bad game tonight.

He'll be even better as he gets back his explosiveness, his stamina, gets older and gains more experience. These are all true. But even as is, he's having a perfectly fine rookie season.

Greg Oden: 15.8 PER
Derrick Rose: 15.8 PER

Rose has played more minutes, which is a mark in his favour. Oden has had more defensive impact (not considered to any significant degree in PER), which is a mark in his favour.

PER isn't the end-all and be-all, but it's a good measure of pace-adjusted efficiency. Oden has played well when he's been on the court. His main problem has staying on the court. Once he gets fouls under control, his box scores will start looking much better.
 
Thanks Minstrel. Good numbers to keep in mind.

It just occurred to me. Greg KILLED Golden State and Pau/Bynum just killed them too. Perhaps we're about to get a great game out of Greg on Saturday night! Hopefully, we win though. Greg's two best games have come with losses.
 
Name one big who hasn't had a great night against the Warriors? Even Marc Gasol had his monster game against them.
 
KingSpeed said:
Thanks Minstrel. Good numbers to keep in mind.

It just occurred to me. Greg KILLED Golden State and Pau/Bynum just killed them too. Perhaps we're about to get a great game out of Greg on Saturday night! Hopefully, we win though. Greg's two best games have come with losses.
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How about that Boston game at the RG? Greg had 13 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists and 3 steals in an upset victory. I'm not gonna worry about Oden's performance until next year. Right now, all I'm asking for from Oden is some flashes or glimpses of greatness.
 
Darkwebs said:
How about that Boston game at the RG? Greg had 13 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists and 3 steals in an upset victory. I'm not gonna worry about Oden's performance until next year. Right now, all I'm asking for from Oden is some flashes or glimpses of greatness.
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That's what I was asking, if I should just wait til next year. And yea, that Boston game was pretty good. Besides the GS game, I was thinking of his 15/15 game but I believe that was in OT. Clips, I think. Boston game was good though. Good point.
 
KingSpeed said:
That's what I was asking, if I should just wait til next year. And yea, that Boston game was pretty good. Besides the GS game, I was thinking of his 15/15 game but I believe that was in OT. Clips, I think. Boston game was good though. Good point.
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his 22/10(cant remember rebound total) game against new orleans, in his like 4th game in the NBA.
 
KingSpeed said:
Greg's two best games have come with losses.
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Disagree. I think his best game of the season was against Toronto. He ended up with 16/10 on 5 - 7 FG and 6 - 6 FT. The team looked to feed him the ball early, and instead of him getting in foul trouble, it resulted in his counterpart (Jermaine O'Neal) getting in foul trouble.

He was also very good in the GSW, LAC and BOS games, but beyond the stats, his court awareness and presence just seemed better in that Toronto game. I think getting him going early and not getting in early foul trouble helped him a lot mentally in that game. He seemed more confident and less hesitant. It also seemed to carry forward to the start of the Boston game.

The main thing to remember is he's a 20-year old rookie big man. Like most rookies, even ones not coming off micro fracture surgery, he's going to be inconsistent. He'll look dominant for a couple games and then totally lost for the next couple. The transition from college to the pros is always challenging for big men. Unlike high school and college, you're not always the biggest, strongest guy on the court. Instead of going up against kids your own age that you can physically dominate, you're going up against grown men who are just as big, or bigger, than you - and that have several years of NBA experience.

Give the kid time and be patient. He's already had some excellent games and been a big factor in some key wins. He's also stunk it up at times. It happens. He will continue to learn, and he will continue to recover from his surgery. At the very least, he's already helped improve two of the teams biggest weaknesses from last season: rebounding and interior defense. The rest of his game will come with time. Give him that time and you'll be rewarded for many years to come.

BNM
 
KingSpeed said:
That's what I was asking, if I should just wait til next year. And yea, that Boston game was pretty good. Besides the GS game, I was thinking of his 15/15 game but I believe that was in OT. Clips, I think. Boston game was good though. Good point.
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If you expect him to be consistent, yes you should wait until next year. What you call excuses are facts. It's easy to gloss over them and expect him to do better, but the fact is he's been out of basketball over a year and coming off of major knee surgery. Even without that he's a rookie so this year is a learning experience. We knew his biggest problem would be fouls even if he didn't have his knee injury. He'll get better, but depending on your expectations, yes, wait until next year.
 
not to mention, i dont know how many times last night i saw oden open in the paint off pick and rolls, etc, and never got passed to. i was screamin at the damn TV...lol
 
A few things pondered about our beloved center.

1. Throw him the fucking ball in the post. He is open nearly every time on pick and rolls.

2. The other team really struggles when Oden is fed the ball, and conversely when he is guarding the paint.

3. Oden really needs to learn how to play defense without fouling. He makes some really stupid fouls some times.
 
Ready, Shoot, KingSpeed!
 
I'll probably get slammed for saying this.. but it almost looks to me like Oden is fouling intentionally at times.

I wonder where his head is at... it seems like he doesnt want to be on the floor and maybe subconciously he is making these stupid fouls to get off the floor.

Anyone else get that feeling?
 
^no, why would anyone not want to play?
 
Boob-No-More said:
The main thing to remember is he's a 20-year old rookie big man. Like most rookies, even ones not coming off micro fracture surgery, he's going to be inconsistent. He'll look dominant for a couple games and then totally lost for the next couple. The transition from college to the pros is always challenging for big men. Unlike high school and college, you're not always the biggest, strongest guy on the court. Instead of going up against kids your own age that you can physically dominate, you're going up against grown men who are just as big, or bigger, than you - and that have several years of NBA experience.

Give the kid time and be patient. He's already had some excellent games and been a big factor in some key wins. He's also stunk it up at times. It happens. He will continue to learn, and he will continue to recover from his surgery. At the very least, he's already helped improve two of the teams biggest weaknesses from last season: rebounding and interior defense. The rest of his game will come with time. Give him that time and you'll be rewarded for many years to come.

BNM
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These two paragraphs of your post can be summarized as...

Greg is currently underwelming.

Your view actually agrees with Kingspeed, we should wait until next year. KS and I and everyone around here knows he'll be good down the road, but the simple fact of the matter, PER considered or not, he's not now. He is consistently being outplayed by Joel. I don't get excited by Greg being substituted into the game. The team doesn't play better when he's in the game. He still doesn't have nearly the explosiveness he had in college.
 
Hank The Dwarf said:
I'll probably get slammed for saying this.. but it almost looks to me like Oden is fouling intentionally at times.

I wonder where his head is at... it seems like he doesnt want to be on the floor and maybe subconciously he is making these stupid fouls to get off the floor.

Anyone else get that feeling?
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Maybe not intentionally, but subconciously maybe???

I remember back in high school I went to an open gym in North Portland. My 2 friends and I were the only white players there (this is not a racist post hang in there with me) All of us were starters on our highschool basketball team that was state champions the year before. Most of the guys playing were a little older, so no one "knew" us from playing or anything. We all got out there on different teams and for the forst game NO ONE passed any of us the ball. We all played soild defense, but on offense they ignored us. Well at some point during the game I stopped playing defense because I was frustrated being open every time down the floor and not getting the ball.

Maybe this is Gregs issue. He is tired of not getting the ball and in return is tired of getting pounded inside with no glory at the other end? The guards let players run by them and he has to pick them up. Then at the other end the guards jack up 3's or Aldridge shoots a 20 footer while he is standing under the basket.


Just an outlandish conspiricy theory on my part, but it could be????
 
Mediocre Man said:
Maybe not intentionally, but subconciously maybe???

I remember back in high school I went to an open gym in North Portland. My 2 friends and I were the only white players there (this is not a racist post hang in there with me) All of us were starters on our highschool basketball team that was state champions the year before. Most of the guys playing were a little older, so no one "knew" us from playing or anything. We all got out there on different teams and for the forst game NO ONE passed any of us the ball. We all played soild defense, but on offense they ignored us. Well at some point during the game I stopped playing defense because I was frustrated being open every time down the floor and not getting the ball.

Maybe this is Gregs issue. He is tired of not getting the ball and in return is tired of getting pounded inside with no glory at the other end? The guards let players run by them and he has to pick them up. Then at the other end the guards jack up 3's or Aldridge shoots a 20 footer while he is standing under the basket.


Just an outlandish conspiricy theory on my part, but it could be????
Click to expand...


I think this makes some sense... but it may even go deeper than that.

Oden is very disappointed in the way he is playing this year.. and he is having a tough time not living up to the expectations the fans had and he may have had for himself.

Nate is force feeding him minutes..maybe subconsiously he wants out..and picking up cheap fouls is the way to do that without admitting what is really going on in his mind.

who knows..
 
Blazer fans will be patient with Oden . . . no one is calling to trade him. But the original expectations have got to be lowered in many fans minds.

Yes rookies can be inconsistent (not all but many), yes Oden is coming off knee surgery, yes he is a young big man . . . but GO is also a tough player to figure out. I'm with KS in that all these "excuses" can only go so far before fans realize GO is a bit of an enigma.

I would have rather seen him go 2-11. To me that is more of rookie inconsistency . . . Durant and Rose either light it up or go down swinging . . . to just disappear from a game . . . has me scratching my head.
 
Another thought on Oden.... why not just play him through the foul trouble and if he fouls out, so what?

We have capable Bigs to play behind him in LMA, Joel, Frye and Ike.

He needs to stay on the floor and try to get into some kind of rythmn.
 
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