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soul driver

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source: netsdaily.com

JO is a waste of time and money and I hate Zach. this would be a huge step backwards after the kidd trade IMO
 
I smell a 3 team trade.

Carter to NYC, Randolph to Indiana, JO to NJ.

FYI, I rather just keep VC, I want no part of of JO or Zach Randolph.
 
I'd like to hope Thorn could get a better deal in clearing space if that is his intentions.

Although Frank is going to love the more traditional offensive sets.

-Petey
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GM3 @ Feb 18 2008, 11:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I smell a 3 team trade.

Carter to NYC, Randolph to Indiana, JO to NJ.

FYI, I rather just keep VC, I want no part of of JO or Zach Randolph.</div>
Absolutely! Why do we need cancer in the locker room? Plus Randolph can teach Sean how to be a real thug. He's no Magloire who sits patiently the whole season. Just leave Carter be.
 
why would we get JO now though? I mean, when we had Kidd, I could see. but now?
 
Does anyone realize how cluttered the frontcourt would be and how weak the backcourt would be?
 
ZBo's contract expires in 2011.

In other words - no ****ing way.

As far as contracts go, O'Neal's isn't terrible (in the context of ZBo, Carter and Hughes), especially if he plays. Expires next year, and we could either move him to a contender or a rebuilding team, depending on how he's playing.

A Carter for O'Neal deal sounds better and better the more I hear it.

O'Neal and a pick or two for Carter and Mags? That sounds great to me.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Feb 18 2008, 11:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ZBo's contract expires in 2011.

In other words - no ****ing way.

As far as contracts go, O'Neal's isn't terrible (in the context of ZBo, Carter and Hughes), especially if he plays. Expires next year, and we could either move him to a contender or a rebuilding team, depending on how he's playing.

A Carter for O'Neal deal sounds better and better the more I hear it.

O'Neal and a pick or two for Carter and Mags? That sounds great to me.</div>

O'Neals contract is larger than Carter's, just expires a year earlier. The one reason I want no part of JO is that he will bitch and moan once hes here and will most likely mean less time for Boone and Sean.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (L @ Feb 18 2008, 11:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Does anyone realize how cluttered the frontcourt would be and how weak the backcourt would be?</div>
EXACTLY!!!!!! I swear Rod better not do this trade, if anything Vince will play better because he rested his ankle and Kidd is gone, since the two weren't getting along. Both these trades make no sense were gonna have a overcrowded front court and we will struggle to score 90 points, we know damn well RJ cant lead a team on offense. This trade will make me a pissed nets fan.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>if anything Vince will play better because he rested his ankle and Kidd is gone</div>

Because we all know how much VC loves carrying a mediocre team?

JO is an upgrade over VC and his contract is a year shorter. He's only a year removed from averaging 20/10 with 2-1/2 blocks.

The effectiveness of guys like Carter and Jefferson is really going to take a hit in Kidd's absence. Stylistically, Devin Harris is a slashing guard. Having a Jermaine O'Neal there to open lanes for him and clean up the mess is a good thing. Otherwise Harris is driving the lane without protection (especially with Collins gone).

It also gives you the option of starting Marcus Williams and Harris together.

With Kidd gone the countdown to VC crying and asking out is already ticking. If you can flip him for an All-Star-level big man, do it! Otherwise the best you can hope for is a Lakers/Grizz style salary dump.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (speeds @ Feb 18 2008, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>if anything Vince will play better because he rested his ankle and Kidd is gone</div>

Because we all know how much VC loves carrying a mediocre team?

JO is an upgrade over VC and his contract is a year shorter. He's only a year removed from averaging 20/10 with 2-1/2 blocks.

The effectiveness of guys like Carter and Jefferson is really going to take a hit in Kidd's absence. Stylistically, Devin Harris is a slashing guard. Having a Jermaine O'Neal there to open lanes for him and clean up the mess is a good thing. Otherwise Harris is driving the lane without protection (especially with Collins gone).

It also gives you the option of starting Marcus Williams and Harris together.

With Kidd gone the countdown to VC crying and asking out is already ticking. If you can flip him for an All-Star-level big man, do it! Otherwise the best you can hope for is a Lakers/Grizz style salary dump.
</div>

In a vacuum (i.e. ignoring all other factors), there is less than a 50% chance that JON makes a team better than Vince. Both can put up pretty but hollow stats, however, at least Vince has been clutch before.

Now on the Nets, there is zero chance that JON makes the team better. JON would need a fountain of youth and a personality makeover to be enough of an upgrade in the Nets front court that makes up for the huge drop off in the Nets back court.

Unless of course you are talking in terms of the Nets lottery chances, then yes, JON makes the Nets "better"
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (speeds @ Feb 18 2008, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>if anything Vince will play better because he rested his ankle and Kidd is gone</div>

Because we all know how much VC loves carrying a mediocre team?

JO is an upgrade over VC and his contract is a year shorter. He's only a year removed from averaging 20/10 with 2-1/2 blocks.

The effectiveness of guys like Carter and Jefferson is really going to take a hit in Kidd's absence. Stylistically, Devin Harris is a slashing guard. Having a Jermaine O'Neal there to open lanes for him and clean up the mess is a good thing. Otherwise Harris is driving the lane without protection (especially with Collins gone).

It also gives you the option of starting Marcus Williams and Harris together.

With Kidd gone the countdown to VC crying and asking out is already ticking. If you can flip him for an All-Star-level big man, do it! Otherwise the best you can hope for is a Lakers/Grizz style salary dump.
</div>
Marcus starting is actually a very bad scenario.
When we trade VC, I wanna at least know if we would get a all-star calibur big and a semi-decent shooting guard in return. VC for JO or Randolph straight up puts us at a real hole at the SG position.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (speeds @ Feb 18 2008, 12:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>if anything Vince will play better because he rested his ankle and Kidd is gone</div>

Because we all know how much VC loves carrying a mediocre team?

JO is an upgrade over VC and his contract is a year shorter. He's only a year removed from averaging 20/10 with 2-1/2 blocks.

The effectiveness of guys like Carter and Jefferson is really going to take a hit in Kidd's absence. Stylistically, Devin Harris is a slashing guard. Having a Jermaine O'Neal there to open lanes for him and clean up the mess is a good thing. Otherwise Harris is driving the lane without protection (especially with Collins gone).

It also gives you the option of starting Marcus Williams and Harris together.

With Kidd gone the countdown to VC crying and asking out is already ticking. If you can flip him for an All-Star-level big man, do it! Otherwise the best you can hope for is a Lakers/Grizz style salary dump.
</div>
Oh yea and how about JO?? You really think hes gonna carry the team? This guys been out for like weeks with a knee injury and you think bring him into a overcrowded front court, that will stop the growth of guys like Sean and Boone will help??
 
I think right now I'd rather just give Vince for expirings and picks. Some combo like this

Post-Kidd deal.

Memphis-NJ:
Miller and Lowry for Magloire (expiring), Boki (expiring), Marcus Williams, 2 2nds (1 from Dallas deal, 1 future 2nd from Nets)

Next ORL-Nets is a 2 part deal since it doesnt work if it isnt. Before Deal nets cut one of KVH, Ager or Diop. (KVH unless league does not allow it)

Part 1:
Vince and Darrel Armstrong for Arroyo, Garrity, Dooling, 08 1st, Future 1st.

Part 2:
Trenton Hassel for JJ Redick and Maurice Evans

Nets New Roster:
Starters: Harris, Mike Miller, RJ, Nenad, Boone
Bench: Sean Williams, Diop (expiring), Swift, Arroyo (expiring), Lowry, Dooling (expiring), Garrity (expiring), JJ Redick, Maurice Evans (expiring), Ager


A great way to start over with tons of money coming off the cap at the end of the year.
 
If we get rid of Carter for ANOTHER big man who the hell is our shooting guard???? Ager?!?
 
As an Indianapolis resident, I'd rather listen to O'Neal bitch and moan than Carter bitch and moan.

I do think I'd do everything in my power to unload Carter if I were the Nets though.
 
How do we go from having so many guards and not enough good big men to having so many big men and no guards at all? And why do we want a 30 year old rape artist anyway“

Then again I guess we have to clear out some guards to make way for LeBron in 2010
 
Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.</div>
He would
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Feb 18 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.</div>
He would
</div>

Pretty big assumption that he would be healthy enough to play
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.</div>
Who's in the four man rotation? As I see it we have 6 big guys who should get minutes and 7 if you include Boki. Boone, Williams, Swift, O'Neal, Diop, and Krstic are all good big men. We would be crazy deep at F/C but it's stupid to get so many big men. Especially with the game changing into a small line-up run n gun type of game.

BTW with Kidd gone who's the new Captain of the team?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J-HoAgZ @ Feb 18 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.</div>
Who's in the four man rotation? As I see it we have 6 big guys who should get minutes and 7 if you include Boki. Boone, Williams, Swift, O'Neal, Diop, and Krstic are all good big men. We would be crazy deep at F/C but it's stupid to get so many big men. Especially with the gfame changing into a small line-up run n gun type fo game.

BTW with Kidd gone who's the new Captain of the team?
</div>
Boki would not play down low since we are short gaurds. Carter still will play a lot of PG since Marcus is still learning.

As for Jermaine, he only plays 30 minutes before the injury. I doubt he would come out and play more than that.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J-HoAgZ @ Feb 18 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.</div>
Who's in the four man rotation? As I see it we have 6 big guys who should get minutes and 7 if you include Boki. Boone, Williams, Swift, O'Neal, Diop, and Krstic are all good big men. We would be crazy deep at F/C but it's stupid to get so many big men. Especially with the game changing into a small line-up run n gun type of game.

BTW with Kidd gone who's the new Captain of the team?
</div>
I have a feeling the team will be RJ's...which would be great cause he's vocal enough to be a leader.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J-HoAgZ @ Feb 18 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.</div>
Who's in the four man rotation? As I see it we have 6 big guys who should get minutes and 7 if you include Boki. Boone, Williams, Swift, O'Neal, Diop, and Krstic are all good big men. We would be crazy deep at F/C but it's stupid to get so many big men. Especially with the gfame changing into a small line-up run n gun type fo game.

BTW with Kidd gone who's the new Captain of the team?
</div>
Boki would not play down low since we are short gaurds. Carter still will play a lot of PG since Marcus is still learning.

As for Jermaine, he only plays 30 minutes before the injury. I doubt he would come out and play more than that.
</div>
I thought Carter is gone for O'neal? (If the trade happens)
 
This is just a rumor that will never be true. Thorn is trying to make the team faster not slower. The deal for mike miller is more believable.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 18 2008, 12:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican @ Feb 18 2008, 12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.</div>
He would
</div>

Pretty big assumption that he would be healthy enough to play
</div>

Doesn't matter, Frank loves playing injured players big minutes...no matter how poorly they're playing.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J-HoAgZ @ Feb 18 2008, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (J-HoAgZ @ Feb 18 2008, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe @ Feb 18 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Like I said before, I'd trade Carter for O'Neal if we could get Mike Miller.

Jermaine would not take away minutes from Boone and Williams because we would have a nice four man rotation.</div>
Who's in the four man rotation? As I see it we have 6 big guys who should get minutes and 7 if you include Boki. Boone, Williams, Swift, O'Neal, Diop, and Krstic are all good big men. We would be crazy deep at F/C but it's stupid to get so many big men. Especially with the gfame changing into a small line-up run n gun type fo game.

BTW with Kidd gone who's the new Captain of the team?
</div>
Boki would not play down low since we are short gaurds. Carter still will play a lot of PG since Marcus is still learning.

As for Jermaine, he only plays 30 minutes before the injury. I doubt he would come out and play more than that.
</div>
I thought Carter is gone for O'neal? (If the trade happens)
</div>
Sorry I'm extremely tired and I meant Boki to the 2 as well.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 18 2008, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Unless of course you are talking in terms of the Nets lottery chances, then yes, JON makes the Nets "better"</div>

Exactly. He makes the team worse and the contract situation better - it's Kiki's Denver plan all over again!

The key is clearing cap space for Summer 2010 when EVERYONE becomes a free agent. If we've got a new arena and some nice young parts in Harris, Boone, Swat, we could be in a very good situation going after a LeBron or Wade.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Feb 18 2008, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Feb 18 2008, 01:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Unless of course you are talking in terms of the Nets lottery chances, then yes, JON makes the Nets "better"</div>

Exactly. He makes the team worse and the contract situation better - it's Kiki's Denver plan all over again!

The key is clearing cap space for Summer 2010 when EVERYONE becomes a free agent. If we've got a new arena and some nice young parts in Harris, Boone, Swat, we could be in a very good situation going after a LeBron or Wade.
</div>

You guys who are talking about cap space are forgetting one thing: a free agent signing the magnitude of what you're talking about is very unlikely to be done in the absence of a S&T because the incoming player wants (and will get) a maximum deal. Very few teams -- and none who could compete seriously for a title the next year -- would be able to sign such a player outright because they are going to have to have very good, reasonably high-salaried players already in place. That means their payroll will already be close to cap limits, especially after the value of all trade exceptions and the MLE are added (which the CBA requires for free agent signing purposes if the team is under on outright salary). That means you won't have the necessary cap space to sign someone at 20M+ per year. You are going to have to do it via trade, which will require sending a lot of salary back. That's where the contract of someone like Carter or Jefferson will be invaluable. You can combine that salaried player with other consideration to facilitate the FA coming in a S&T.

Otherwise you are going to have to totally gut the team and say, "LeBron, please come rebuild with us. We know you are leaving your home state, where you are deified, because you want to win a title now. You can come here and babysit our roster, which consists primarily of young players still on their rookie contracts and a couple of good vets with 3-6 years experience. Then, with luck, we might have a championship caliber roster around you in 4 years."

Why and the heck would he do that? He could just stay in Cleveland. You are going to need at least a couple of highly regarded veteran players, who will ergo be earning big salaries, to attract a big time free agent with the promise of imminent, realistic championship aspirations. And that means you're going to need at least one other high-salaried player to send the other way.

All this run to dump Carter immediately is seriously misguided. If you're not removing one of the vets that could be key in attracting James, you may be removing the very contract that might be necessary to acquire him down the road. More importantly, if you are not still trying to win now, you seriously damage your credibility with young players in whom you are trying to instill a culture of winning and who need as much forging in the fires of the playoffs as possible. There's an important message for Williamses and Krstics and Boones and Harrises to get RIGHT NOW and that is that they are a playoff caliber team without Jason Kidd. If you want Sean Williams to be a valuable piece to a championship in 3 years, then you better let him get his feet wet as soon as possible.

Then there is the fact that Carter is bound to have one of the best months of his career sometime between now and the end of the season. He's had a number of player of the month awards in Jersey, and most have followed some perceived crisis with the team and particularly with his production. He will be extremely motivated by Kidd's departure, and at the very least you build his trade value by letting him play through to the end of the season.

The biggest mistake this team could make right now is trading Carter, especially for a thug like Randolph or a chronically injured O'Neal.
 

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