OT: Detroit Radio 97.1 reports Boozer for Rip trade in the works?

[ironcrotch]

They're talking about it right now - a big deal is supposedly coming soon? this was reported a week ago but apparently is picking up now.

Helps Utah get a good 2 guard, but don't see how this helps Detroit at all since they just signed CV but Rip and BG are kind of redundant.

http://www.wxyt.com/

ok - they WERE talkign about it, seems to have moved on.

 

[Mediocre Man]

They're talking about it right now - a big deal is supposedly coming soon? this was reported a week ago but apparently is picking up now.

Helps Utah get a good 2 guard, but don't see how this helps Detroit at all since they just signed CV but Rip and BG are kind of redundant.

http://www.wxyt.com/

Boozer is expiring. It helps Detroit a lot next season.

This can only help Portland. I'm not sure how, but people keep saying Portland will win no matter what.

 

[Minstrel]

This doesn't make sense for Detroit unless they're trying to blow it all up, which I don't think they are.

 

[Mediocre Man]

This doesn't make sense for Detroit unless they're trying to blow it all up, which I don't think they are.

Why doesn't it make sense for them?

Wouldn't this give them a lot of cap space next season for the big FA fest?


I think they, unlike other teams, relaize they aren't championship contenders with Rip instead of Boozer, so why not take the cap relief

Charlie V
Boozer
Prince
Gordon
Stuckey


How many dominant centers are there to abuse Villanueva

 

[number 10]

This doesn't make sense for Utah either, Hamilton is owed a lot of money and is rapidly declining. Unless they're planning on giving up both Boozer and Millsap and going with AK47 as their PF, I don't get it.

 

[BIG Q]

Probably means they will slide CV to SF and makes Prince available. No way Dumars will have $8 mil coming off of the bench when he is rebuilding.

 

[Mediocre Man]

This doesn't make sense for Utah either, Hamilton is owed a lot of money and is rapidly declining. Unless they're planning on giving up both Boozer and Millsap and going with AK47 as their PF, I don't get it.

They could get away with AK playing the 4.


Maybe Hamilton would come to Portland. He is 6'7", and could play SF?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Probably means they will slide CV to SF and makes Prince available. No way Dumars will have $8 mil coming off of the bench when he is rebuilding.

Wouldn't CV be able to play center?

 

[Minstrel]

Why doesn't it make sense for them?

Wouldn't this give them a lot of cap space next season for the big FA fest?

It would save them money, but the chances of landing an impact free agent are small, since most of them stay with their current teams. So they'd be substantially weakening their team for a very slim shot at acquiring a major free agent.

If that was their plan, I think they'd have refrained from locking in two rather mediocre free agents this year.

How many dominant centers are there to abuse Villanueva

I think a lot of centers would abuse Villanueva. Playing him at center and Boozer (an awful defender) at power forward would just beg teams to kill them inside.

 

[Mediocre Man]

It would save them money, but the chances of landing an impact free agent are small, since most of them stay with their current teams. So they'd be substantially weakening their team for a very slim shot at acquiring a major free agent.

If that was their plan, I think they'd have refrained from locking in two rather mediocre free agents this year.



I think a lot of centers would abuse Villanueva. Playing him at center and Boozer (an awful defender) at power forward would just beg teams to kill them inside.

Joel can opt out next season. I bet he would garner a lot of interest from Detroit. Joel also longs to be back in the great lakes region.

 

[Norman Dale]

I was wondering if the trade that Detroit made the other to free up cap space might be a part of a larger move via trade, not just a move to free up space to sign another free agent. I'm wondering if Portland might be able to jump in to this deal to free up money for Utah to keep Milsap. Here's what I've been hoping for:
Utah sends AK47 and Boozer to Detroit, Detroit sends Hamilton and Prince to Utah, and then Utah sends Prince to Portland for Outlaw and cap space. Utah then matches Milsap's offer.

 

[Tince]

Wouldn't CV be able to play center?

Yes in the sense that he's a horrible PF defender so it can't get much worse. No in more practical ways of thinking.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Yes in the sense that he's a horrible PF defender so it can't get much worse. No in more practical ways of thinking.

He played about even time at both PF and C last season for the Bucks.

His PER was better at PF, but not a lot better.


I think it would be ok for a year

 

[Tince]

He played about even time at both PF and C last season for the Bucks.

His PER was better at PF, but not a lot better.


I think it would be ok for a year

Well I hope for the two games against us he plays center. Depiste what PER's say, I've seen it plenty of times with my own two eyes, and it's not pretty.

CV is a lazy, no aggressive defender, who would be total undersized and underpowered to play against our centers.

 

[Sinobas]

Huh? Rip makes just as much as Boozer, but he'll be making it until 2013! They'll be in luxury tax hell forever! This can't be true, can it?

 

[Minstrel]

He played about even time at both PF and C last season for the Bucks.

His PER was better at PF, but not a lot better.

PER doesn't measure defense. Here are his opponents' PER by position:

At power forward, he gave up an 18.3 PER to his opponent.
At center, he gave up a 27.4 PER to his opponent.

The average PER is about 15.0, an All-Star caliber PER is generally 20.0+ and a superstar-caliber PER is generally 25.0+.

So, as a power forward, he's a poor defender and, as a center, he's amazingly bad. You can play him at center as long as you are willing to basically turn the average center you face into a top-tier superstar.

 

[Mediocre Man]

PER doesn't measure defense. Here are his opponents' PER by position:

At power forward, he gave up an 18.3 PER to his opponent.
At center, he gave up a 27.4 PER to his opponent.

The average PER is about 15.0, an All-Star caliber PER is generally 20.0+ and a superstar-caliber PER is generally 25.0+.

So, as a power forward, he's a poor defender and, as a center, he's amazingly bad. You can play him at center as long as you are willing to basically turn the average center you face into a top-tier superstar.

I understand he is not very good. I am saying they could do it for a year because they know they aren't winning this year anyway. They would get a huge salary to use next year if they did it. It's looking at the big picture.

 

[Idog1976]

I was wondering if the trade that Detroit made the other to free up cap space might be a part of a larger move via trade, not just a move to free up space to sign another free agent. I'm wondering if Portland might be able to jump in to this deal to free up money for Utah to keep Milsap. Here's what I've been hoping for:
Utah sends AK47 and Boozer to Detroit, Detroit sends Hamilton and Prince to Utah, and then Utah sends Prince to Portland for Outlaw and cap space. Utah then matches Milsap's offer.

Now THAT might have some legs. Utah would love to unload AK, who in turn would be a good replacement for Prince. Rip going to Utah would really up their firepower. Detroit gets better and has a nice expiring in Boozer to trade at the deadline or use for relief and/or FA 2010 signings.

I like it. But would Detroit and Utah go for it? Utah may not have much choice unless they want to REALLY pay for Millsap. On the other hand Utah probably doesn't want to do us any favors.

 

[Boise Blazer]

I think a lot of centers would abuse Villanueva. Playing him at center and Boozer (an awful defender) at power forward would just beg teams to kill them inside.

[video=youtube;1sl1ieOmUhQ]

What are you talking about? I think CV would be great against powerful centers!

 

[LittleAlex]

If that was their plan, I think they'd have refrained from locking in two rather mediocre free agents this year.

According to ESPN, Detroit was a big winner this off season.

Which made me think perhaps the guys at ESPN have a crack addiction.

 

[Minstrel]

I understand he is not very good. I am saying they could do it for a year

If they're willing to lose a lot, yes. But then...

because they know they aren't winning this year anyway.

If so, they wouldn't have spent big dollars on two rather mediocre free agents when there's a much better free agent class next year. Their actions this off-season say that they DO want to win this year.

 

[B-Roy]

I understand he is not very good. I am saying they could do it for a year because they know they aren't winning this year anyway. They would get a huge salary to use next year if they did it. It's looking at the big picture.

So basically, you want them to tank.

 

[Minstrel]

According to ESPN, Detroit was a big winner this off season.

Which made me think perhaps the guys at ESPN have a crack addiction.

Yeah, it seems like most off-season "winner/loser" analyses boil down to "number of famous names in vs. number of famous names out."

 

[Mediocre Man]

So basically, you want them to tank.

Why wouldn't they?


Let's say they absolutely blow this year and end up with a top pick.

Then have somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 million under the cap next summer.

A core roster of

Stuckey
Gordon
Prince
Villanueva
Maxiel

Then add in a high lotto pick and a couple of high end FA's, and you have rebuilt quickly.

 

[e_blazer]

Why would Utah, which was looking to dump Boozer's one year of remaining salary from their books, take on a long term large salary that would ensure that they pay luxury tax for the next several years?

 

[RR7]

I don't think just moving Rip for Boozer is going to get them 20 million in cap space, though. Their current roster, with the additions of Gordon and Villanueva is sitting right around 50 million. Take away Boozer's 12, and they are at 38. Adding in the cap hold of let's say a top 10 pick (Let's say #10) is another 1.8. They only have 7 players under contract. Add in 4 roster holds, and it is closer to 8 million in cap space. Still, I agree with you that they should move Rip and probably tank. I just think they should look for someone younger/more long term than Boozer. I think they should have tried to move him to Washington for the 5th pick. Butas is, they aren't good enough to do anything. I hat emore than anything teams that refuse to realize they blow, and continue to shovel shit on top of shit, because they worry people will stop showing up. People already stopped showing up there. You're not atitle contender. They should have traded Sheed last year at the deadline for anything they could get, and started the rebuild. Oh well.

 

[hasoos]

This doesn't make sense for Utah either, Hamilton is owed a lot of money and is rapidly declining. Unless they're planning on giving up both Boozer and Millsap and going with AK47 as their PF, I don't get it.

I don't agree with you on Hamilton rapidly declining. With the AI situation, the reality was he was put in a position where he was set up to fail. Bad coach. Bad GM decision. Bad team chemistry, as Chauncey Billups was key to getting Rip the ball where he was comfortable operating, with good timing on the passes, which is critical for off the ball, using screens to get open for shots type of play. So that being said, I think Hamilton has to fit your system, and you have to have guys which can get him the ball in the right spots. Declining fast though, is hardly warranted.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I don't think just moving Rip for Boozer is going to get them 20 million in cap space, though. Their current roster, with the additions of Gordon and Villanueva is sitting right around 50 million. Take away Boozer's 12, and they are at 38. Adding in the cap hold of let's say a top 10 pick (Let's say #10) is another 1.8. They only have 7 players under contract. Add in 4 roster holds, and it is closer to 8 million in cap space. Still, I agree with you that they should move Rip and probably tank. I just think they should look for someone younger/more long term than Boozer. I think they should have tried to move him to Washington for the 5th pick. Butas is, they aren't good enough to do anything. I hat emore than anything teams that refuse to realize they blow, and continue to shovel shit on top of shit, because they worry people will stop showing up. People already stopped showing up there. You're not atitle contender. They should have traded Sheed last year at the deadline for anything they could get, and started the rebuild. Oh well.

I am showing them with a little under 30 million next season if they traded Hamilton and let Boozer and Kwame walk. There would be cap holds, but I don't think I am that far off.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Boozer acknowledged on a Chicago radio station that a trade was in the works and he is very happy about it.


Edit: I just heard the interview. He actually didn't say that. He said he would be traded soon but that doesn't mean he thinks one is in the works. The SLC radio station made it sound like one was imminent

 

[RR7]

Teyshaun, Gordon, Villanueva, Stuckey, Daye, Maxiell adds up to 37.5 roughly.