OT- Kevin Love SI article

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MickZagger

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Lee Jenkins wrote a great piece in the latest SI. I'm telling you a great read.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1179946/1/index.htm

McHale recognized the hands like vises and legs like Oregon sequoias, tools of a rebounding fiend.

After Love put up 25 points and 18 rebounds in a loss in San Antonio earlier this month, Spurs forward Antonio McDyess left the locker room uttering a familiar refrain: "He's not that tall. He's not that athletic. He just outworks everybody."
 
Weekly Kevin Love related brou-ha-ha in 3 ... 2 ...
 
I think this belongs in the Around The NBA thread...but I'm not a mod so what do I know.
 
Still...

A whole thread devoted to a player on a 6-win team just seems odd to me....
 
Still...

A whole thread devoted to a player on a 6-win team just seems odd to me....

I believe we've had a whole thread devoted to a player on a 5 win team in Blake Griffin.
 
Because he can jump high?

How many rookies have you seen average 20pts/12reb/3asts? He even averages 8 FTA/G. Already one of the best finishers in the league.

Special player. He can do almost anything he wants on the court. Not many players can say that.
 
He can't shoot at all though. He relies almost solely on his athleticism.
 
How many rookies have you seen average 20pts/12reb/3asts? He even averages 8 FTA/G. Already one of the best finishers in the league.

Special player. He can do almost anything he wants on the court. Not many players can say that.

He's 6 months younger than Love. He's about on par with Love production wise.
 
As a rookie he's blowing Love's rookie season out of the water. Not even close. He's also much more physically gifted and is much, MUCH harder to stop. He actually finishes at the rim. Love gets blocked a ton.

Love is a junkyard player. Nice...I guess.
 
As a rookie he's blowing Love's rookie season out of the water. Not even close. He's also much more physically gifted and is much, MUCH harder to stop. He actually finishes at the rim. Love gets blocked a ton.

Love is a junkyard player. Nice...I guess.

Love as a rookie was 19. Griffin as a rookie is 21, going on 22.

Rookie year PER's

Love- 18.3
Griffin- 21.3 (thus far)

I'd say as a 19 year old rookie, an 18.3 is on par with a rookie PER of 21.3 that Griffin has. Blowing it out of the water? Pshhhh ok. Griffin does dunk cool though!

No more soup for you! Come back, 1 year!
 
Love as a rookie was 19. Griffin as a rookie is 21, going on 22.

Rookie year PER's

Love- 18.3
Griffin- 21.3 (thus far)

I'd say as a 19 year old rookie, an 18.3 is on par with a rookie PER of 21.3 that Griffin has. Blowing it out of the water? Pshhhh ok. Griffin does dunk cool though!

No more soup for you! Come back, 1 year!

Look at you using PER as the defining statistic in comparing players. LOL.

You have no eye for the game.
 
Look at you using PER as the defining statistic in comparing players. LOL.

You have no eye for the game.

lol. I don't think you understand how PER works if your going to discredit it. Its always a convenient stat until it fucks up someone's argument.

I have a great eye for the game. I'm just not enamored with guys who jump really high. Cool beans!

Face it. Griffin is good. Love is just as good. Both great players on shitty teams. To say that Griffin's rookie year is blowing Love's out of the water, is, well just flat out wrong.

In fact, given age of the players during their rookie years, I'd say Love's is slightly better given his age. But, you're right. Griffin does jump higher.
 
lol. I don't think you understand how PER works if your going to discredit it. Its always a convenient stat until it fucks up someone's argument.

I have a great eye for the game. I'm just not enamored with guys who jump really high. Cool beans!

Face it. Griffin is good. Love is just as good. Both great players on shitty teams. To say that Griffin's rookie year is blowing Love's out of the water, is, well just flat out wrong.

In fact, given age of the players during their rookie years, I'd say Love's is slightly better given his age. But, you're right. Griffin does jump higher.

I'm not discrediting PER. It's just not the defining statistic some here like to use it as. It's not. PER says Outlaw and Rudy Gay were about equals a couple years ago which is laughable. Gay's game is much more diverse and it's not even close.

I question your eye for the game if you think Griffin and Love are equals. Griffin is a much more talented player with his physical abilities and his basketball abilities. Griffin can bring the ball up the court like a PG and dish it for an assist. He can get to the rim whenever he wants and actually finish unlike Love, who gets his shot blocked as much as anyone in the NBA. Griffin is better, period, and he's only a rookie.

If you can't recognize this then I'll stop here.
 
I'm not discrediting PER. It's just not the defining statistic some here like to use it as. It's not. PER says Outlaw and Rudy Gay were about equals a couple years ago which is laughable. Gay's game is much more diverse and it's not even close.

I question your eye for the game if you think Griffin and Love are equals. Griffin is a much more talented player with his physical abilities and his basketball abilities. Griffin can bring the ball up the court like a PG and dish it for an assist. He can get to the rim whenever he wants and actually finish unlike Love, who gets his shot blocked as much as anyone in the NBA. Griffin is better, period, and he's only a rookie.

If you can't recognize this then I'll stop here.

A couple things.

A couple years ago, Gay and Outlaw were about the same. Gay just recently started to figure it out. Outlaw was our 4th quarter closer.

Vlade Divac was great at running the court and creating plays for teammates. A great passer as well. Doesn't mean I would have rather had him than most C's.

You seem to ignore stats win they don't mesh well with your argument. Griffin is not better, like you want to believe, period. As I brought with actual numbers to support my opinion, Love at 2 years younger, had numbers just slightly below Griffin. In fact, Love his rookie year led the league in OReb%.

Griffin is cooler to watch. That doesn't make him better by any means.
 
Looks like I'll stop here. You just don't have the ability to see the game.
 
Hey Zags -

Are you going to be rocking your K-Love jersey tonight at the game? :)
 
I should probably stay out of this, as both sides already seemed firmly entrenched and unlikely to change their opinions.

Right now, I give the edge to Love.

In terms of scoring, they get their points in different ways, but are surprisingly close in both PTS/36 and scoring efficiency. I personally don't care how they score, as long as they do and do so efficiently. Griffin gets more dunks, but 2 points is 2 points. So, a 15 jumper counts the same on the scoreboard. Love has a higher TS%, but Griffin has a higher eFG%. Griffin gets to the line a little more, but he's a poor FT shooter. Love is a great FT shooter and actually MAKES more FT/G and more FT/36 than Griffin. So, in terms of scoring and scoring efficiency, these two are remarkably close and I call it a draw.

They are both excellent passers for big men. Griffin gets fractionally more AST/G and AST/36, but Love is a great outlet passer. Those outlet passes initiate a fast break that often leads to an easy basket - but someone else gets the assist. Again, this is close enough I'd call it a draw.

Defense is also a draw at this point. Griffin has the athleticism to be a better defender, but doesn't know how to use it yet. He leaves his feet to often and is often out of position on defense. He gets surprisingly few steals and blocks for someone so big and athletic - barely topping Love in both categories. Love lacks Griffin's lateral quickness and leaping ability (although Love is a better athlete than most people give him credit for). Love plays much better position defense and uses his wide frame to hold his position. Griffin has the potential to be better, but right now, I'd call this one a draw.

So, where does Love have the advantage - rebounding. Love is easily the best rebounder the NBA has seen since Dennis Rodman was in his prime. I always place a very high value on rebounding. A team that dominates the boards always has an excellent chance to win - even if they shoot poorly. Rebounds mean possessions. Unfortunately, both Love and Griffin are surrounded by poor teammates. So, those extra possessions often go to waste. Put Kevin Love on a good team and those extra posessions will help his team win a lot more close games. Griffin is a very good rebounder, but Love is the best rebounder the league has seen in over 10 years.

So, right now, today, I give the advantage to Kevin Love. Personally, I'd love to have either player on the Blazers. I doubt if either is attainable. Too bad, I think we could have gotten Love without giving up too much a year, or so ago. With the big numbers he's putting up this year, that ship has sailed. Even if he was available, the price would be much higher. As long as Griffin is on a cheap rookie contract, he won't be available. Once he becomes a free agent bound to command a max. contract, he may be available for the right combination of expiring contracts and cheap, young talent. Who knows what the Blazers will have to offer at that time.

BNM
 
I should also add that Love has a much higher ORtg (119) and WS/48 (0.180) than Griffin (107, 0.118).

Love's TRB% of 24.18 is the highest since Rodman's 25.61 in 1996-97. In fact, if you exclude Rodman, Love's current TRB% is the highest since they started keeping this stat back in 1970-71. That's quite an accomplishment, when you think about all the great rebounders the league has seen over the last 40 years (late career Wilt, early career Kareem, Moses Malone, Hakeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley, Ben Wallace, Dwight Howard, etc.).

BNM
 
Kevin Love also has a much higher ORtg and WS/48 compared to Amare Stoudemire. Looks like he's better than Amare now. :crazy:

I'm over this thread.
 
Kevin Love also has a much higher ORtg and WS/48 compared to Amare Stoudemire. Looks like he's better than Amare now. :crazy:

If they were equal in all other aspects, you would be right. However, unlike Blake Griffin, Amare Stoudemire is a significantly better, more efficient scorer, and blocks a lot more shots than Kevin Love. So, of course, he's a better player.

You shit all over MickZagger for using a single stat (PER) when comparing Griffin and Love, then after I present a whole boat load of stats comparing the two, you pick just two of the stats in isolation to make some smart ass nonsensical "argument" about Amare Stoudemire. Nice. Way to be consistent.

I'm over this thread.

Good! You weren't adding anything to it anyway. I prefer rational discussion over blind hatred any day.

BNM
 
Hey Zags -

Are you going to be rocking your K-Love jersey tonight at the game? :)

If you give me a ticket I'll buy a Love jersey and wear my Blazer shorts. I'll even paint my face in Blazer colors. I'll even sneak in a couple vegan sammies. The beers are on me.
 
If you give me a ticket I'll buy a Love jersey and wear my Blazer shorts. I'll even paint my face in Blazer colors. I'll even sneak in a couple vegan sammies. The beers are on me.

I'll take some hot wings and cold beers instead.
 

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