OT: Really?!!!!??

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Could you imagine what this place would be like if you guys couldn't complain!?!?
 
chris_in_pdx said:
Can you bargain away your First Amendment rights to an employer?
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I thought the 1st amendment only protected you from the Government taking away your right to free speech.
 
"Statements detrimental to the NBA"......that is complete horseshit.

This is an issue between Jackson and the Warriors. The NBA has NO business getting involved. At what point are people going to acknowledge that Stern is mentally unbalanced? :sigh:
 
oldmangrouch said:
"Statements detrimental to the NBA"......that is complete horseshit.

This is an issue between Jackson and the Warriors. The NBA has NO business getting involved. At what point are people going to acknowledge that Stern is mentally unbalanced? :sigh:
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The problem is that Jackson went public with the statements. He said it to a media outlet that he wanted to be traded. Players are allowed to request trades with their teams privately. Often its leaked when players request trades but because it isn't the actual player saying it to the public it isn't punishable.
 
oldmangrouch said:
This is an issue between Jackson and the Warriors.
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You said it yourself....as in not a public forum.

The 1st amendment argument is not applicable as somebody pointed out. Sure say what you want about your JOB situation, just be ready for your EMPLOYERS action on those words.

As also already stated...its in the CBA. He's a grown man (in age) and he agreed to it. Easy as that.
 
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chris_in_pdx said:
Can you bargain away your First Amendment rights to an employer?
Click to expand...

Absolutely. People with access to trade secrets in business or confidential information in the military do it every day.

Ed O.
 
chris_in_pdx said:
Can you bargain away your First Amendment rights to an employer?
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Yes, Chris, the first amendment refers to government. The state or fed government cannot arrest you for speaking on whatever. But employers can and do set rules of what their employers can and cannot say about the job/company in public.

All I can say is that will really make Jackson love being with the Warriors, won't it?
 
crandc said:
Yes, Chris, the first amendment refers to government. The state or fed government cannot arrest you for speaking on whatever. But employers can and do set rules of what their employers can and cannot say about the job/company in public.

All I can say is that will really make Jackson love being with the Warriors, won't it?
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For $28 million he better love it. That's the thing about guaranteed contracts - Jackson will pay that $25,000 and move on. In the NFL, you can cut a guy. I wish that were the case in the NBA. You can bet Jackson would keep his mouth shut if his contract wasn't guaranteed.

I don't think if Jackson were a FA this off season that he would have garnered enough interest for anybody to give him $28 million for 3 years.
 
crandc said:
All I can say is that will really make Jackson love being with the Warriors, won't it?
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It wasn't the Warriors who fined him. It was the NBA. He may not want to be a Warrior, but he can't really blame them for something they didn't do.

BNM
 
DaRizzle said:
You said it yourself....as in not a public forum.

The 1st amendment argument is not applicable as somebody pointed out. Sure say what you want about your JOB situation, just be ready for your EMPLOYERS action on those words.

As also already stated...its in the CBA. He's a grown man (in age) and he agreed to it. Easy as that.
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Here's the rub - the NBA isn't his employer! He works for the Warriors. If *they* want to punish him for violating his contract, that's *their* call.

There is no "detriment" to the NBA. The NBA has nothing to do with this. This is strictly a matter between a player and his team. As you say "easy as that."
 
What's all the bitching about? Jackson violated a rule in the Collective Bargaining Agreement, it's as simple as that. The CBA has all kinds of provisions that protect players against every offense in the book (drug violations can't even be reported to the public), and yet when this guy does something that makes the league look bad, he's supposed to get a free pass?

Nonsense.
 
Not sure why anyone thinks he shouldn't be fined. This was a clear violation of the NBA collective bargaining agreement. Jackson, like every other NBA player, receives certain benefits and protections provided by the CBA. With those benefits come the responsibility to hold up his end of the bargain. By demanding a trade through the media, he violated the terms of the CBA and the NBA has fined him accordingly. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

The real question is why was Jackson spouting his trade demands to the media? That's his agents job. Ever notice how when a player wants to be traded, it's always (well, almost always) the player's agent who is quoted by the media? Agents are not members of the NBA Player's Union, and are not, therefore, bound by the terms of the CBA. They are free to toss out trade demands at will with no fear of fine by the NBA. Jackson has a reputation for being a loose cannon with a big mouth, but his agent needs to communicate to him that all trade demands need to come from his agent's mouth, not Jackson's.

BNM
 
Shooter said:
What's all the bitching about? Jackson violated a rule in the Collective Bargaining Agreement, it's as simple as that. The CBA has all kinds of provisions that protect players against every offense in the book (drug violations can't even be reported to the public), and yet when this guy does something that makes the league look bad, he's supposed to get a free pass?

Nonsense.
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:sigh:

One more time. Jackson didn't "make the league look bad." That's just silly. This was between a player (employee) and team (employer). The league was not a party to the dispute and Stern should have kept his nose out of it.
 
oldmangrouch said:
:sigh:

One more time. Jackson didn't "make the league look bad." That's just silly. This was between a player (employee) and team (employer). The league was not a party to the dispute and Stern should have kept his nose out of it.
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Wrong. What if half the players in the league start demanding trades? What if the leading scorer on EVERY team demands a trade. What if ALL the players on one team start demanding trades. If such mutiny goes unchecked, it can, and will damage the NBA financially.

The league's income comes from fans who watch the games on TV, fill the arenas and purchase NBA branded merchandise. In these hard economic times, with people loosing jobs at record rates, the last thing the NBA needs is the public perception that it's players are a bunch of whiny, overpaid malcontents. When a guy who has a $28 million dollar guaranteed contract starts complaining to the media about HIS job situation, it damages the league's reputation, and hence, their bottom line.

Yes, when the Warrior's star player publicly demands a trade, it potentially hurts the team's bottom line (wouldn't you be less likely to purchase Blazers season tickets and team merchandise if Brandon Roy started demanding a trade?), but it also damages the league. Lower ticket sales and lower TV ratings in any market hurts the league's bottom line.

There is a reason this "no public trade demands" clause is in the NBA collective bargaining agreement. It is there to protect the league's image, and therefore, their bottom line. That clause was approved by the NBA Player's Union, and as a member of the Union, Jackson is bound by the terms of that agreement. He's not the first to be fined for public trade demands. So, this action is not without precedent and should not come as a surprise to anyone - including Jackson and his agent.

BNM
 
chris_in_pdx said:
Can you bargain away your First Amendment rights to an employer?
Click to expand...
Absolutely. You can get fired for saying, "Leave the heavy thinking to me. You just sit there and look pretty, Sugarpants."

Trust me, I know.
 
oldmangrouch said:
:sigh:

One more time. Jackson didn't "make the league look bad." That's just silly.
Click to expand...

The CBA, agreed to by the league, the team owners, and the players' union specifically prohibits players from asking to be traded in the media. All that matters is that Jackson broke a rule, and that he was fined for breaking that rule. You can say the rule is silly, but saying that enforcing the rule is silly is silly.
 
BlazerWookee said:
The CBA, agreed to by the league, the team owners, and the players' union specifically prohibits players from asking to be traded in the media. All that matters is that Jackson broke a rule, and that he was fined for breaking that rule. You can say the rule is silly, but saying that enforcing the rule is silly is silly.
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But, the rule isn't silly. It not only protects the league, but it protects the players (the Player's Union would not have agreed to it if it wasn't in the best interest of their members).

If a player's actions damage a team's image, impacts their season ticket sales, causes lower TV ratings, lower merchandise sales, etc. it hurts all teams and all players. Lower basketball related income (BRI), league wide, means a lower salary cap, which means a lower MLE, lower max. contracts, etc. Basically, less money for everyone. The salary cap is calculated as a percentage of BRI (57% to be exact). BRI goes down, the salary cap goes down and and so do players salaries. Anything a player does that results in one less ticket sold, one less jersey sold, etc. means less BRI. If I was an NBA player, I'd be pissed at any other player who does stupid stuff that limits my potential income.

BNM
 
My problem with this fine is that he is only getting it cause he is Stephen Jackson. Kobe didn't get a fine two summers ago when he was telling anyone who would listen that he wanted out of LA.
 
Nate4Prez said:
My problem with this fine is that he is only getting it cause he is Stephen Jackson. Kobe didn't get a fine two summers ago when he was telling anyone who would listen that he wanted out of LA.
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BINGO!!!!!
 
HispanicCausinPanic said:
BINGO!!!!!
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I don't agree. The reason he got the fine, is because he is on the Golden State Warriors, who are going out of their way to burn bridges with the only talent left on their team for some reason. There is a reason the Lakers are on top, and the Warriors, are near the bottom. Just look how they run their teams. One can weather the media storm and put out fires. One just creates more fires, and pours gas on it.
 
Boob-No-More said:
It wasn't the Warriors who fined him. It was the NBA. He may not want to be a Warrior, but he can't really blame them for something they didn't do.

BNM
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I know it was the NBA that fined him, but the fine is going to increase his unhappiness. And we have seen what an unhappy Stephen Jackson is like.
 
chris_in_pdx said:
Can you bargain away your First Amendment rights to an employer?
Click to expand...

No, because he isn't being prosecuted by the government (state, local, federal) for violating the law.

That said, the NBA Players Association did do this to some degree when they signed the CBA that allows for this type of speech to be fined. The difference is, the 1st Amendment right still stands, but a secondary "government" in the NBA has their own right to "prosecute" (via fines or even suspensions) this sort of free speech, as specifically agreed to by both parties in the CBA.
 
hasoos said:
I don't agree. The reason he got the fine, is because he is on the Golden State Warriors, who are going out of their way to burn bridges with the only talent left on their team for some reason. There is a reason the Lakers are on top, and the Warriors, are near the bottom. Just look how they run their teams. One can weather the media storm and put out fires. One just creates more fires, and pours gas on it.
Click to expand...

You have to be joking. The comments Stephen Jackson made were at a party in New York and then released to the media, to which the only people who cared was Warriors fans and New York fans. To think for one moment that the Warriors are at fault for this for not "putting out this fire" is just dumb. And for him to get fined for saying something detrimental to the NBA, compared to Kobe's talk radio, ESPN, newspaper appearances about how he wanted out of Los Angeles and not get fined, Kobe's actions were much more detrimental to the NBA cause every NBA fan paid attention and wanted to know where Kobe was going to go, or if he was going anywhere. Kobe/LeBron/Wade demanding trades is a good thing for the NBA cause they want the press, Stephen Jackson demanding a trade is bad for the NBA cause it's press about Stephen Jackson.
 
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