(OT) Rumor from Boston Globe: Amare for Al Jeff + #6

[illmatic99]

The WTF rumor of the day: http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/2009/06/jefferson_on_mo.html

An NBA executive told the Boston Globe today that the Minnesota Timberwolves is working a deal with the Phoenix Suns that would send former Celtics forward Al Jefferson and their sixth pick in next week's NBA Draft for All-Star Amare Stoudemire.

Is David Kahn worse than McHale? Wonder if this deal would help us get Nash...

 

[cdub503]

doesnt make sense with the other rumor of him trying to get number 2 draft and 6

 

[Tince]

Al Jefferson is a solid player and not near the headache Amare is. I don't think Minnesota should have to add in the 6th pick though.

 

[Minstrel]

doesnt make sense with the other rumor of him trying to get number 2 draft and 6

I don't think it supports or contradicts that one. Building around Rubio and Amare as your point guard/big man tandem could make some sense, if you want to institute a fast-paced offense. We know Amare has flourished in fast-paced offenses and that seems to fit Rubio fine.

 

[Wheels]

if this went down.. Minny gets fleeced.

 

[Nikolokolus]

if this went down.. Minny gets fleeced.

I tend to agree ... especially since it seems like Amare is the kind of guy who would like to head to a bigger market when he's a free agent next year.

 

[Ed O]

For some reason Amare has been discounted tremendously on this board... he's one of the best players in the NBA, and while Al Jefferson is very good he's not nearly as good as Amare.

Amare is only about 26 months older than Jefferson, too, so it's not like the Wolves would be trading for a guy who's too long in the tooth.

Ed O.

 

[alex42083]

And suddenly Amare thinks not being the No. 1 option on Phoenix isn't so bad...

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

...... Minnesota doing this deal would be idiotic. But then again, they traded Mayo....

 

[Nikolokolus]

For some reason Amare has been discounted tremendously on this board... he's one of the best players in the NBA, and while Al Jefferson is very good he's not nearly as good as Amare.

Amare is only about 26 months older than Jefferson, too, so it's not like the Wolves would be trading for a guy who's too long in the tooth.

Ed O.

I totally agree that Amare is being undersold as a player if we're just talking about talent. But my impression of Amare' is that he's headed for a bigger market when he hits free agency next year (based on comments, quotes, etc.) I think Minny runs a serious risk of being left with nothing at all in 12 months if they trade for the guy.

 

[Wheels]

I totally agree that Amare is being undersold as a player if we're just talking about talent. But my impression of Amare' is that he's headed for a bigger market when he hits free agency next year (based on comments, quotes, etc.) I think Minny runs a serious risk of being left with nothing at all in 12 months if they trade for the guy.

couldnt have said it better myself.

 

[Tince]

For some reason Amare has been discounted tremendously on this board... he's one of the best players in the NBA, and while Al Jefferson is very good he's not nearly as good as Amare.

Amare is only about 26 months older than Jefferson, too, so it's not like the Wolves would be trading for a guy who's too long in the tooth.

Ed O.

He's being discounted because of his attitude and lack of production when his team isn't in a run and gun style of offense. I agree with you he is a great talent, but Lamar Odom is a great talent too. If Amare will only play hard and produce in a old PHX style system and is going to piss and moan unless everything is structured around him, then it doesn't matter how much talent he has.

 

[illmatic99]

For some reason Amare has been discounted tremendously on this board... he's one of the best players in the NBA, and while Al Jefferson is very good he's not nearly as good as Amare.

Amare is only about 26 months older than Jefferson, too, so it's not like the Wolves would be trading for a guy who's too long in the tooth.

Ed O.

Maybe so, but the difference in talent between the two is not worth the 6th pick. That is, presuming Amare signs an extension prior to being traded.

 

[Ed O]

I totally agree that Amare is being undersold as a player if we're just talking about talent. But my impression of Amare' is that he's headed for a bigger market when he hits free agency next year (based on comments, quotes, etc.) I think Minny runs a serious risk of being left with nothing at all in 12 months if they trade for the guy.

Has that ever happened in the history of the NBA?

A team acquiring a major player in a trade and then having him leave as a FA a year later?

McDyess is one example I can think of, I guess... I just don't find it very likely that Minnesota would be both unable to re-sign him and unable to get value for him. It should be a consideration/fear, but I think if I were a Minnesota fan I'd rather have my GM operating out of hope than out of fear.

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

He's being discounted because of his attitude and lack of production when his team isn't in a run and gun style of offense. I agree with you he is a great talent, but Lamar Odom is a great talent too. If Amare will only play hard and produce in a old PHX style system and is going to piss and moan unless everything is structured around him, then it doesn't matter how much talent he has.

Amare has produced in a way that Odom has only dreamed of. Career PER:

Odom: 17.0
Amare: 22.6

Stoudemire has produced at an MVP level (or near it) for the last three seasons that he's been healthy (26.6, 23.3, 27.6). Odom has not had ONE season like that... and in fact has never had a single season over 18.9 (his second in the NBA).

Ed O.

 

[The Professional Fan]

I may be wrong, but Jefferson seems so Z-Bo to me. Empty stats, though Jefferson, IMO, is the better player between the two.

If I could have Jefferson or Amare? I choose Amare. Every time.

 

[Wheels]

I may be wrong, but Jefferson seems so Z-Bo to me. Empty stats, though Jefferson, IMO, is the better player between the two.

If I could have Jefferson or Amare? I choose Amare. Every time.

 

[Minstrel]

I totally agree that Amare is being undersold as a player if we're just talking about talent. But my impression of Amare' is that he's headed for a bigger market when he hits free agency next year (based on comments, quotes, etc.) I think Minny runs a serious risk of being left with nothing at all in 12 months if they trade for the guy.

Amare was unhappy in Phoenix because he felt he was being de-emphasized for an aging, declining Shaq. In Minnesota, he'd be the clear first option, the feature big man. In addition and perhaps more important, no team could offer him as much as Minnesota could.

People talk about how players want to bolt small cities and such, but ultimately money talks. Precious few big-time free agents leave the team that holds their Bird rights, assuming that team wants to retain them. And it's purely because the NBA makes bidding wars impossible and the most money is always at home (again, for max deal players that the team wants to keep).

And as a "soft" factor, if Minnesota really does trade Love for the #2 pick and selects Rubio, you have to think Amare would like to play with a potentially elite fast-break and pick-and-roll point guard.

There's a chance Minnesota could lose him, but I'd place the chance of that very, very low.

 

[Da_O]

Amare doesn't get underrated, he's right where he should be. His defense is so bad it nearly negates everything he does offensively. He is the poorest defender I have ever seen in the NBA.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I may be wrong, but Jefferson seems so Z-Bo to me. Empty stats, though Jefferson, IMO, is the better player between the two.

If I could have Jefferson or Amare? I choose Amare. Every time.

In your opinion, is the difference worth the 6th pick?

 

[Tince]

Amare has produced in a way that Odom has only dreamed of. Career PER:

Odom: 17.0
Amare: 22.6

Stoudemire has produced at an MVP level (or near it) for the last three seasons that he's been healthy (26.6, 23.3, 27.6). Odom has not had ONE season like that... and in fact has never had a single season over 18.9 (his second in the NBA).

Ed O.

Their consistency, effort, and useage of their talent are all in question. That's the comparison. I'm sorry I didn't make that more clear.

Amare has proven to be high maintenance and has yet to prove he can be an "MVP" type player outside of the PHX system with one of the NBA's greatest PG's along his side.

 

[Tince]

In your opinion, is the difference worth the 6th pick?

I think that would be a good deal for PHX since he's probably leaving in a year away.

 

[Da_O]

Amare doesn't get underrated, he's right where he should be. His defense is so bad it nearly negates everything he does offensively. He is the poorest defender I have ever seen in the NBA.

I'd even rank him below Z-bo. I'm very realistic when it comes to Stoudemire, too realistic for many people. The truth is that when a player is mediocre or poor at rebounding, defense, passing, decision-making, ball-handling, and creating his own offense, then his positive value is relatively limited. Yes, he is an incredible assisted finisher/shooter on the pick-and-roll/pop, a nice weapon to load. However, the best player on a good team can't be a one-trick pony, which is why the Suns are 6-13 (.316) over the last five seasons when Stoudemire has played without Nash.

Edit: I feel like ranting some more, I still feel like Diaw is the better player and the Suns were stupid to get rid of him. I'd rather have him than a player that's limited on both offense and defense, where as Diaw brings versatility.

 

[Tince]

I'd even rank him below Z-bo. I'm very realistic when it comes to Stoudemire, too realistic for many people. The truth is that when a player is mediocre or poor at rebounding, defense, passing, decision-making, ball-handling, and creating his own offense, then his positive value is relatively limited. Yes, he is an incredible assisted finisher/shooter on the pick-and-roll/pop, a nice weapon to load. However, the best player on a good team can't be a one-trick pony, which is why the Suns are 6-13 (.316) over the last five seasons when Stoudemire has played without Nash.

Lol, someone thinks highly of themselves.

I don't know if I'd go as far as you, but I'm closer to you than most people on the board when it comes to Amare.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

If they deal Love for the #2 and take Thabeet, Minnesota could have a very interesting frontcourt.

PF: Stoudemire
C: Thabeet

I like that if I'm Minnesota. Thabeet complements Amare perfectly. A lot more than Kevin Love would, IMO.

 

[Tince]

If they deal Love for the #2 and take Thabeet, Minnesota could have a very interesting frontcourt.

PF: Stoudemire
C: Thabeet

I like that if I'm Minnesota. Thabeet complements Amare perfectly. A lot more than Kevin Love would, IMO.

Do you say that from a offense/defense perspective?

Strictly on the offensive end, I think Amare is way better off being along side Love opposed to Mutombo, err Thabet. Amare would most likely be playing center, and easily be able to explode by his defender. Love's passing would help him get the ball on any post-to-post play. Love also can hit the outside shot, where Thabet will clog up the middle, leaving his defender the opportunity to help.

However, an Amare/Love combo on defense might be one of the worst in the NBA...

 

[cdub503]

if i am minnesotas GM and (assuming you can get #2 with just love and keep 6) id get rubio, and one of the better big men that isnt thabeet because you know hes not going any worse than top 5 most likely or you could pray to god that rubio slips to 6 and swap them and if he gets swooped up get maynor curry or any of the other slew of pgs in this draft

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

if i am minnesotas GM and (assuming you can get #2 with just love and keep 6) id get rubio, and one of the better big men that isnt thabeet because you know hes not going any worse than top 5 most likely or you could pray to god that rubio slips to 6 and swap them and if he gets swooped up get maynor curry or any of the other slew of pgs in this draft

How about we send Minnesota Lamarcus, Bayless and our #32 for Al Jefferson and their #6?

We can then package Sergio and the #6 to move up one or two slots to nab Rubio.

Finally, we trade Travis plus a couple Second Round picks to move up a bit to nab DeJuan Blair.

We still have our #24 pick (best available SF).

Sign Andre Miller as a free agent with our cap space.


Oden / Pryz / Randolph
Jefferson / Blair
Batum / Webster / SF with #24 pick
Roy / Rudy
Miller / Blake / Rubio

 

[axs88]

How about we send Minnesota Lamarcus, Bayless and our #32 for Al Jefferson and their #6?

We can then package Sergio and the #6 to move up one or two slots to nab Rubio.

Finally, we trade Travis plus a couple Second Round picks to move up a bit to nab DeJuan Blair.

We still have our #24 pick (best available SF).

Sign Andre Miller as a free agent with our cap space.


Oden / Pryz / Randolph
Jefferson / Blair
Batum / Webster / SF with #24 pick
Roy / Rudy
Miller / Blake / Rubio

Jefferson is somewhat of a blackhole offensively... I'd still consider it if it weren't for the fact that he tore his ACL last season. We don't know how he's gonna look after that.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Has that ever happened in the history of the NBA?

A team acquiring a major player in a trade and then having him leave as a FA a year later?

Danny Manning - acquired by the Hawks, leaves for the Suns. And that's just off the top of my head.