OT: What's Up with Utah

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Boob-No-More

Why you no hire big man coach?
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Are the Jazz REALLY this terrible on the road? They just lost to Washington and New Jersey (and neither game was really all that close) and now they are getting absolutely SPANKED by the Celtics 72 - 48.

I know they've struggled on the road in past seasons, but prior to this road trip, their road record this season (12 - 6) was excellent. How did they get this bad this quickly on the road? Is it just a little slump, or has the rest of the league figured out some fatal flaw that lets even bad teams beat the Jazz on the road?

BNM
 
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I haven't watched enought Jazz games in the past couple weeks. But, I know that team seriously lacks depth.
 
Are the Jazz REALLY this terrible on the road? They just lost to Washington and New Jersey (and neither game was really all that close) and now they are getting absolutely SPANKED by the Celtics 72 - 48.

I know they've struggled on the road in past seasons, but prior to this road trip, their road record this season (20 - 10) was better than their home record (22 - 15). How did they get this bad this quickly on the road? Is it just a little slump, or has the rest of the league figured out some fatal flaw that lets even bad teams beat the Jazz on the road?

I think the differences between Boozer and Al Jefferson are really starting to show - Believe it or not - but they were better defensively with Boozer and I do not think they have the same kind of finisher with Jefferson. Jefferson is more of a back to the basket kind of guy - but I do not think he really thrives in the pick and roll offense they are running with Deron - Boozer was much better for that there. They have a system - and the pieces do not fit as well as they did in the past.
 
I think the differences between Boozer and Al Jefferson are really starting to show - Believe it or not - but they were better defensively with Boozer and I do not think they have the same kind of finisher with Jefferson. Jefferson is more of a back to the basket kind of guy - but I do not think he really thrives in the pick and roll offense they are running with Deron - Boozer was much better for that there. They have a system - and the pieces do not fit as well as they did in the past.

But, they had a 12 - 6 road record at the start of this road trip. It's like the wheels suddenly fell off. They went from a good road team to a horrible one overnight.

And, they were never a great road team when they had Boozer, either (21-20 last year and 15-26 the year before).

BNM
 
But, they had a 12 - 6 road record at the start of this road trip. It's like the wheels suddenly fell off. They went from a good road team to a horrible one overnight.

And, they were never a great road team when they had Boozer, either (21-20 last year and 15-26 the year before).

I do not follow them close enough to see what is happening now specifically, maybe they miss Okur who I think just came back and is not up to speed? but my opinion in general is that their team is downgraded from last year - the loss of Wes, the Al-Jeff for Boozer trade - I expected them to be good but not as good as last year.
 
Al Jefferson was a stat monster on a bad team.

Carlos Boozer was a stat monster on a good team.

I'm not at all surprised that Jefferson is struggling with better teammates. Being "The Man" on a terrible team is easy. As they say, 'somebody has to get the stats'.

He's barely at break even in terms of Ortg/Drtg (109/107), especially considering his team is in first place.
 
I do not follow them close enough to see what is happening now specifically, maybe they miss Okur who I think just came back and is not up to speed? but my opinion in general is that their team is downgraded from last year - the loss of Wes, the Al-Jeff for Boozer trade - I expected them to be good but not as good as last year.

Raja Bell has been a significant downgrade over Wesley Matthews as well. Matthews was a 12 PER last year, but Bell is barely at a 9 this year.

Bell/Jefferson has proven to be a significant downgrade over Matthews/Boozer. The strange part is the record is on pace to be better in terms of W/L, yet the actual stats say they should be 24-18 right now instead of 27-15.
 
But, they had a 12 - 6 road record at the start of this road trip. It's like the wheels suddenly fell off. They went from a good road team to a horrible one overnight.
Weren't most of those wins uncanny 4th quarter comebacks? Maybe it's simply a matter of them returning to normal through three quarters.
 
They're trying to copy Portland here. Lose to crappy teams on the road baby! lose em!
 
Well Utah managed to play the Celtic even after my initial post and lost by "only" 24.

Even more inexplicable; the Hawks lost to the Hornets by 41 (100 - 59) tonight - AT HOME. How does a team that's 13 games over 0.500 lose by 41 at home?

BNM
 
also, much of the BOS game UTH was without Deron-is-Deron. Earl Watson and Ronnie Price playing 41 combined minutes against Rondo probably didn't help
 
Jefferson happened.

Rudy Gay, Al Jefferson, Zach Randolph, Kevin Love are all the same kinda player...

Shitty defense, always on bad team, never saw a shot they didn't like, and are stat padders with a me first attitude.
 
Jazz had lots of big comeback wins on the road early in the year. It masked the fact that they were getting into those hollow to begin with. Now teams are closing the door on them and not letting them back in.
 
Jazz had lots of big comeback wins on the road early in the year. It masked the fact that they were getting into those hollow to begin with. Now teams are closing the door on them and not letting them back in.

could on say the Blazers toxic offers (Milsap) happened? it caused them tp get rid of Maynor for nothing and perhaps not sign a few others, and then not signing Wes, killed their depth
 
Okay, so I just watched the replay of the Philly/Utah game. The reason they suck right now is simple, horrible defense and turnovers. They also have no bench.
 
"they have no bench"

pot calling kettle?

If he had said "ha! that team sucks! they have no bench! Blazers ROOL, JAZZ DROOLZ!" you might have a had a reason in making your post. But since he was making an observation that had nothing to do with the Blazers, you just did an epic fail.
 
If he had said "ha! that team sucks! they have no bench! Blazers ROOL, JAZZ DROOLZ!" you might have a had a reason in making your post. But since he was making an observation that had nothing to do with the Blazers, you just did an epic fail.

"Par for the course" would also have worked.
 
They also have no bench.

This is what happens when your owner is more concerned about the bottom line than the standings. Utah HAD a very deep team with a great bench, but lost their depth due to financial constraints.

They let Boozer walk to Chicago and got nothing back. That makes Millsap the starter. Millsap was the best back-up PF in the league. He's doing almost as well as a starter as Boozer did last season, but now they no longer have a great power forward coming off the bench and their starting front court is undersized.

They also let Kyle Korver walk, again to Chicago, and again, nothing in return. There goes their 3-point shooting and instant offense off the bench. Korver was great for them last season. He had a PER of 13.9, which is pretty good for a bench player, but his most significant contribution was his league leading 0.536 3FG%. That's tough to replace. They used a lottery pick (9th) on a "meh" rookie (Gordon Hayward PER = 9.0, 0.391 3FG% - not bad, but a long way from 0.536) in an attempt to get a cheaper version of Korver. This is a big downgrade.

They also traded Ronnie Brewer to Memphis for a future 1st round pick, further weakening their bench. Chicago also signed Brewer as a free agent (current PER = 13.4, but most impressive is his DRtg of 98! Look how well Chicago is doing now with the acquisition of these three former Jazz players they signed as free agents. Chicago spent the money Utah would not, and it is paying dividends in the form or wins.

We stole Wesley Matthews from them. Again, they got nothing back and had to sign 34-year old Raja Bell to try replace him. With a PER of 9.0 (compared to 15.7 for Matthews), Bell is one of the worst starting SGs in the league. Matthews is a much better player than the current version of Raja Bell. Bell was once known as a lock down defender, but those days are long gone. His current DRtg is 112, compared to Matthews at 108. Bell's WS/48 of 0.058 is less than half of Matthews at 0.125. This was another major downgrade for Utah.

Last season, they also gave Eric Maynor (and Matt Harpring) to OKC for some scrub named Peter Fehse who has never played one second of NBA basketball.

These were all cost cutting measures that destroyed Utah's depth. It hurt their starting line-up and decimated their bench. Frankly, I'm surprised their record is as good as it is (or was). Utah has been relatively injury free so far this season. But, their lack of depth seems to be catching up with them. They have lost all four games on their current road trip, three to teams with losing records, and have looked like absolute shit. Let's hope they continue to struggle and we can eventually pass them in the standings.

BNM
 
So basically what we did with bayless and Webster? We made our bench shit.
 
Our bench would be fine if we didn't have so many injuries.

Exactly. We didn't give away any starters, like Utah did (Boozer and Matthews). We moved a couple bench players that would have been out of the rotation if not for all the injuries. If we had a healthy Roy, Camby and Oden, we'd have plenty of depth. Matthews would be getting almost all the back-up SG and SF minutes and Aldridge wouldn't need to play 40 MPG with so much more depth up front. If we had Oden and Camby, a three man rotation of Oden, Camby and Aldridge at the C and PF positions would be one of the best in the league. Give Oden 32 MPG, Camby 30 and Aldridge 34. Aldridge can play spot minutes at center and Camby can back up both positions.

Yeah, right now I'd rather have Webster over Babbit and Bayless over nothing (currently), but who knows what the NO pick will turn into? And, while our bench may lack depth due to the injuries, we are currently 5 games over 0.500. This shows just how deep of a team Pritchard built. Oden hasn't played a minute and Roy has missed half our games and wasn't the same player when he did play. And, now Camby is out, but the team is still 5 games over 0.500. We may not be deep now, but we sure as hell are when everyone is healthy. Utah can't even say that. Talented, yes. Deep, no.

BNM
 
Update: The Jazz lost to the Lakers by 29 tonight. That's five straight losses, by an average margin of 15.8 PPG. And three of those losses were to teams with losing records - the infamous "road trip of shit" to Philadelphia, New Jersey and Washington.

Yeah, we lost to the Kings at home last night. It happens. Let's just hope we don't go into a multi-game slide like Utah is in right now. They are now only 2.5 games ahead of us in the standings.

BNM
 
This is what happens when your owner is more concerned about the bottom line than the standings. Utah HAD a very deep team with a great bench, but lost their depth due to financial constraints.

They let Boozer walk to Chicago and got nothing back. That makes Millsap the starter. Millsap was the best back-up PF in the league. He's doing almost as well as a starter as Boozer did last season, but now they no longer have a great power forward coming off the bench and their starting front court is undersized.

They also let Kyle Korver walk, again to Chicago, and again, nothing in return. There goes their 3-point shooting and instant offense off the bench. Korver was great for them last season. He had a PER of 13.9, which is pretty good for a bench player, but his most significant contribution was his league leading 0.536 3FG%. That's tough to replace. They used a lottery pick (9th) on a "meh" rookie (Gordon Hayward PER = 9.0, 0.391 3FG% - not bad, but a long way from 0.536) in an attempt to get a cheaper version of Korver. This is a big downgrade.

They also traded Ronnie Brewer to Memphis for a future 1st round pick, further weakening their bench. Chicago also signed Brewer as a free agent (current PER = 13.4, but most impressive is his DRtg of 98! Look how well Chicago is doing now with the acquisition of these three former Jazz players they signed as free agents. Chicago spent the money Utah would not, and it is paying dividends in the form or wins.

We stole Wesley Matthews from them. Again, they got nothing back and had to sign 34-year old Raja Bell to try replace him. With a PER of 9.0 (compared to 15.7 for Matthews), Bell is one of the worst starting SGs in the league. Matthews is a much better player than the current version of Raja Bell. Bell was once known as a lock down defender, but those days are long gone. His current DRtg is 112, compared to Matthews at 108. Bell's WS/48 of 0.058 is less than half of Matthews at 0.125. This was another major downgrade for Utah.

Last season, they also gave Eric Maynor (and Matt Harpring) to OKC for some scrub named Peter Fehse who has never played one second of NBA basketball.

These were all cost cutting measures that destroyed Utah's depth. It hurt their starting line-up and decimated their bench. Frankly, I'm surprised their record is as good as it is (or was). Utah has been relatively injury free so far this season. But, their lack of depth seems to be catching up with them. They have lost all four games on their current road trip, three to teams with losing records, and have looked like absolute shit. Let's hope they continue to struggle and we can eventually pass them in the standings.

BNM

With the death of Larry Miller, it makes it tough to plan for the future.
 
I guess it's safe to say that Millsap and Jefferson's All Star chances are slipping away.
 
and Bayless over nothing (currently), but who knows what the NO pick will turn into?



that would be closer to a second round pick than the lottery. yeah at the time management was figuring it would be a late lottery pick, but still bayless' proven ceiling as a productive player was much higher than an average late lottery pick. at his age you don't give up on a player like that just because of inconsistency and/or confidence issues. that trade was inexcusable.
 
Salt Lake City is pretty small for the NBA. Is Charlotte or New Orleans smaller? I give a pat on the back to the Jazz for being so good year after year. They deserve a mediocre year every decade or two.
 

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