Outlaw led the team in assists tonight.

[KingSpeed]

Can we put the "black hole" label to rest?

 

[B-Roy]

No, he tied with Sergio and Roy.

 

[bigbailes]

me and his .8 assts/gm had a good laugh at that.

4 assts. in 37 minutes and you are ready to drop the black hole tag? in the first two games he combined for 3.

 

[LameR]

I'll admit that I'm cringing when he gets the ball less often.

 

[Miksaid]

If we can get excited over Batum after one good performance, and slam Blake for a couple of his own, then we can just as easily forgive Travis for his past deficiencies after his performance tonight (where his stats refute the "black hole" theory). I don't necessarily agree with this, but if our opinions of players can change so quickly then that luxury should extend to ALL our players, including Travis, who doesn't seem to have the same level of support amongst us.

And just for the record, I am a Batum believer. He should start .

 

[bigbailes]

the difference here is the sample size with a batum vs outlaw. batum is new and fresh, someone who we still have to learn. outlaw is established and has earned a rep. can that rep change? sure but it's going to take more than 4 assts. in one game and 8 in three to do that.

and for the record i like outlaw, even when he gets the ball, puts his head down, drives to the right and jumps into the air while fading away to force a shot.

 

[Sedatedfork]

Love Trout, but I think he is probably the odd man out. Batum is overachieving and Rudy is showing that he can probably fill that instant offense role if asked to. Martell is locked up for a few years. There are only so many minutes. He may not be a black hole, but his Blazer days are probably numbered.

 

[MARIS61]

TO is fine, and here to stay and play.

 

[PapaG]

me and his .8 assts/gm had a good laugh at that.

4 assts. in 37 minutes and you are ready to drop the black hole tag? in the first two games he combined for 3.

Rudy has been a disappointment to me with his passing. He has 5 assists in 3 games and is averaging 27/min game. It turns out that he is the black hole so far this season.

 

[Furball]

Rudy has been a disappointment to me with his passing. He has 5 assists in 3 games and is averaging 27/min game. It turns out that he is the black hole so far this season.

You can't get an assist if people don't make shots. Rudy is not playing point guard, but he does a great job of moving the ball around. If this was hockey, he would have a lot of assists as a lot of his passes have led to assists for other people.

 

[PapaG]

You can't get an assist if people don't make shots. Rudy is not playing point guard, but he does a great job of moving the ball around. If this was hockey, he would have a lot of assists as a lot of his passes have led to assists for other people.

It's not hockey, and he has 5 assits in 3 games, two of them losses. He's been a great offensive spark, but if Outlaw is going to be criticized for assisting more than others, I'll point out other examples of being a ballhog.

 

[Nate4Prez]

It's not hockey, and he has 5 assits in 3 games, two of them losses. He's been a great offensive spark, but if Outlaw is going to be criticized for assisting more than others, I'll point out other examples of being a ballhog.

Rudy was also that only guy who could score last night, shot 8-15 and 2-5 3pt.

No offense Eric, but this is a really stupid thread. It was created just so you can push your agenda of making people believe Outlaw is better than he is. Everyone on here likes Outlaw, I have his jersey, but everyone (with the exception of Maris, PapaG, and Eric) realizes what his value is to this team and what his value is elsewhere in the league. I could make threads after every game saying, "Joel lead the team in rebounds" and go on to say he should start over Oden. So stop taking data from single games and making players look better than they are. You did it all last year with Jarret Jack and Devin Harris, two players who shouldn't even be compared with each other.

Also, I have never seen anyone on here refer to Outlaw as a "black hole"

 

[Ed O]

It's not hockey, and he has 5 assits in 3 games, two of them losses. He's been a great offensive spark, but if Outlaw is going to be criticized for assisting more than others, I'll point out other examples of being a ballhog.

Rudy has played in the three games in his NBA career. Criticizing him, as a rookie, for his lack of passing in those first three games shows just how far you're bending over backwards to defend Outlaw against imagined slights.

Ed O.

 

[alex42083]

If Outlaw leads us in assists every night, I get a feeling we're going to be losing a lot of games since that's not his role. Travis' role is hit the open jumper, grab defensive boards and block an occasional shot.

 

[Nate4Prez]

Rudy has played in the three games in his NBA career. Criticizing him, as a rookie, for his lack of passing in those first three games shows just how far you're bending over backwards to defend Outlaw against imagined slights.

Ed O.

The best part is that these are imagined slights against Outlaw lol

If Outlaw leads us in assists every night, I get a feeling we're going to be losing a lot of games since that's not his role. Travis' role is hit the open jumper, grab defensive boards and block an occasional shot.

+1

Travis knows that and he does a pretty good job of it. I wish the posters here would figure that out.

 

[Minstrel]

Outlaw co-leading the team in assists with 4 says bad things about the team, not good things about Outlaw. 4 assists should never be the leading total.

And as far as Travis goes, 4 assists being a high-water mark for him doesn't refute the idea that he's a black hole. Zach Randolph has had games with 4 assists too.

 

[BalancedMan]

Hey, even Zach gets five assists in a game every once in a while.

 

[PapaG]

Rudy has played in the three games in his NBA career. Criticizing him, as a rookie, for his lack of passing in those first three games shows just how far you're bending over backwards to defend Outlaw against imagined slights.

Ed O.

I agree with most of what you are saying but, this thread was created to point out that Travis had 4 assists last night, and it also makes me think you aren't in touch with your own board if you call my slights of Outlaw "imagined".

Did I imagine that you argued in favor of an Outlaw/Kyle Lowry trade on BBF?

 

[Ed O]

I agree with most of what you are saying but, this thread was created to point out that Travis had 4 assists last night, and it also makes me think you aren't in touch with your own board if you call my slights of Outlaw "imagined".

What slights are there? That he's a limited player? That he's not the starter when our whole team is healthy? That he's not untouchable?

Those are slights?

Did I imagine that you argued in favor of an Outlaw/Kyle Lowry trade on BBF?

Yes. Although I chalk it up to a poor memory on your part.

Here's the thread, so you can revisit it and get in touch with reality.

You claimed "A Travis Outlaw for Kyle Lowrey deal, straight up, would be an embarrassment for Pritchard and an absolute steal for Memphis."

I disagreed, pointed out that Lowry might be a better player than Outlaw right now (note the "might" part... it's kinda important)... but stated that I wasn't sure that I would trade Outlaw for any PG on Memphis's roster, including Conley. Of course, you didn't understand that position at the time, so I'm not shocked your memory distorts the position I actually took.

Ed O.

 

[MAS RipCity]

Travis has been very unselfish so far this season. His role is to shoot, so yea he will put up shots. But so far, I have seen him take maybe 1-2 bad shots a game, for the most part his 3 has been cash and he took it strong to the hole the last two games (should have sealed the SA game but no foul called)

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Rudy has played in the three games in his NBA career. Criticizing him, as a rookie, for his lack of passing in those first three games shows just how far you're bending over backwards to defend Outlaw against imagined slights.

Ed O.

Naw, I think it's been a long summer with little to talk about except Greg's rehab. So, if some people are
extrapolating after a few games, it's understandable.

 

[STOMP]

No offense Eric, but this is a really stupid thread. It was created just so you can push your agenda of making people believe Outlaw is better than he is. Everyone on here likes Outlaw, I have his jersey, but everyone (with the exception of Maris, PapaG, and Eric) realizes what his value is to this team and what his value is elsewhere in the league.

no offense, but this is a really stupid post. Now here's guessing that you're taking offense nonetheless... which would be my point.

You don't speak for everyone here by a longshot so why play pretend? I certainly don't agree with you here and I'm sure that there are many others who don't see it your way either. "Everyone here realizes what his value is elsewhere in the league"??? I don't even have a good guess as to what thats supposed to mean.

STOMP

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Love Trout, but I think he is probably the odd man out. Batum is overachieving and Rudy is showing that he can probably fill that instant offense role if asked to. Martell is locked up for a few years. There are only so many minutes. He may not be a black hole, but his Blazer days are probably numbered.

If Batum were raining 3s, I'd say he was overachieving. All he's really done is play with energy. He can bring
that every night. He's not overachieving.

In my hoped-for future rotation, Frye is the odd man out not Batum.

 

[STOMP]

And as far as Travis goes, 4 assists being a high-water mark for him doesn't refute the idea that he's a black hole. Zach Randolph has had games with 4 assists too.

would taking only 12 shots in 37 minutes help refuting that nonsense? Unlike Zach, Travis moves the ball many more times then not. Zach would seemingly only give up the ball if he could get an assist.

STOMP

 

[Nate4Prez]

no offense, but this is a really stupid post. Now here's guessing that you're taking offense nonetheless... which would be my point.

You don't speak for everyone here by a longshot so why play pretend? I certainly don't agree with you here and I'm sure that there are many others who don't see it your way either. "Everyone here realizes what his value is elsewhere in the league"??? I don't even have a good guess as to what thats supposed to mean.

STOMP

You ignored the whole purpose of my post. To say Travis' tying assist stat, with two other players, is noteworthy is outrageous, and it's especially not thread worthy. This is a thread started just to make TO sound better than he is, which doesn't need to be said cause no one here has put a slight on Outlaw. Most people realize who is, and what he is worth to this team.

Secondly, I said no offense cause if I would have said "Eric, this thread is stupid" I would come off as an ass hole, which is not what I intended to say at all. I enjoy 90% of what Eric has to say, but if I disagree I will have it be made known cause after all, this is a discussion forum. I meant I didn't mean to offend him.

Thirdly, you saying you cant comprehend what "Travis' value is elsewhere in the league" makes a lot of sense considering you said "play pretend." You do know that if someone is "play pretending" it means they are not pretending?

STOMP

 

[Minstrel]

would taking only 12 shots in 37 minutes help refuting that nonsense?

I don't think it's nonsense. Taking fewer shots can be a sign of not being a black hole, or it can be a sign of not knowing how to play as a lower-order option. The problem I see with Outlaw is that he is at his best playing the role of first option, but he's not good enough to be the first option on a top team.

Unlike Zach, Travis moves the ball many more times then not. Zach would seemingly only give up the ball if he could get an assist.

I don't think either player is a literal black hole, that once you throw it in to them, they will never pass it. I think Randolph simply has poor passing skills, so doesn't do a lot of it, unless there's a clear chance for him to do so. I think Outlaw doesn't really know how to integrate his game in with other scorers, so he follows his instinct...which is to try to put the ball in the hoop. Yes, he will pass, but not often for a focal point player and not very well.

 

[STOMP]

I don't think it's nonsense. Taking fewer shots can be a sign of not being a black hole, or it can be a sign of not knowing how to play as a lower-order option. The problem I see with Outlaw is that he is at his best playing the role of first option, but he's not good enough to be the first option on a top team.

the nonsense I referred to was that he was being labeled a black hole along with the ridiculous oft repeated contention that he shoots every time he touches the ball. That shoe does not fit. If you're arguing that he should be a black hole because thats how you feel he's at his best, thats a different matter.

I don't think either player is a literal black hole, that once you throw it in to them, they will never pass it. I think Randolph simply has poor passing skills, so doesn't do a lot of it, unless there's a clear chance for him to do so. I think Outlaw doesn't really know how to integrate his game in with other scorers, so he follows his instinct...which is to try to put the ball in the hoop. Yes, he will pass, but not often for a focal point player and not very well.

ZR was the definition of a black hole IMO... as the ball rarely came out of the post once it went in. He always could have passed it back out onto the perimeter, he rarely did though. Thats not a talent issue, thats a selfish issue. He did look for wide open cutters if his personal attack plan was shut down, but if none were there he launched his J.

STOMP

 

[KingSpeed]

No, he tied with Sergio and Roy.

All three of them led the team.

 

[Sedatedfork]

If Batum were raining 3s, I'd say he was overachieving. All he's really done is play with energy. He can bring
that every night. He's not overachieving.

In my hoped-for future rotation, Frye is the odd man out not Batum.

Given Batum's age and lack of experience, I am really impressed with his poise on the floor. He is playing a lot better than I thought he would -- particularly after the summer league. I just don't think TO is going to be happy with the opportunities he is going to get competing with Webster, Batum, and Frye for minutes. Of the 4 players he seems to have the most value, so I think that he might be trade bait.

Edit: Oh and just so I don't confuse any futher, I was saying I think TO is the odd man out. Not Batum.

 

[KingSpeed]

Rudy has been a disappointment to me with his passing. He has 5 assists in 3 games and is averaging 27/min game. It turns out that he is the black hole so far this season.

I know you're kidding. Rudy is constantly looking for the open man. They just don't always lead to buckets.