Passed Tax Measure Having Desired Effects

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Had some friends over last night for desert & hot tub. Due to the business tax measure the company he works for (150+ employees) is making plans to move to Nevada. The vast majority of the employees are not going with them and will join the ranks of the unemployed.

In addition, due strictly to the new tax, the parent company of mine will have 3 rounds of layoffs and jettison over 200 employees.

I know this is what the libs wanted, but it's painful to see from my perspective.

See, the message that was not gotten thru is that for S corps, the bill has little effect, for the most part. But for C corps, it's devastating and many companies will be leaving. The reason being is that C corps are now being taxed on revenue and not profit. As an example, the parent health care company that owns our little group brings in about $1.5 billion in revenue. However, since we lost $30 million last year our taxes would be based on the loss. But now we have to pay tax on the $1.6 billion coming in the door- or an additional $16 million in tax on top of the $30 million loss. We can absorb it via permanent layoffs like a lot of other C corps, but some will have to close or move.

Oregon is a whacked out state.

 

[barfo]

Had some friends over last night for desert & hot tub. Due to the business tax measure the company he works for (150+ employees) is making plans to move to Nevada. The vast majority of the employees are not going with them and will join the ranks of the unemployed.

In addition, due strictly to the new tax, the parent company of mine will have 3 rounds of layoffs and jettison over 200 employees.

I know this is what the libs wanted, but it's painful to see from my perspective.

See, the message that was not gotten thru is that for S corps, the bill has little effect, for the most part. But for C corps, it's devastating and many companies will be leaving. The reason being is that C corps are now being taxed on revenue and not profit. As an example, the parent health care company that owns our little group brings in about $1.5 billion in revenue. However, since we lost $30 million last year our taxes would be based on the loss. But now we have to pay tax on the $1.6 billion coming in the door- or an additional $16 million in tax on top of the $30 million loss. We can absorb it via permanent layoffs like a lot of other C corps, but some will have to close or move.

Oregon is a whacked out state.

BP, BP, BP. Shouldn't you at least try to get your facts straight before you post nonsense like this?

A corporation with revenue of $1.5 billion and no profits would pay the $100,000 minimum tax. Not $16 million. $100,000.

Your company is going to lay off 200 people to pay a $100,000 tax bill? People at your company earn $500 per year?

I mean really. Look it up. Jesus.

barfo

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

BP, BP, BP. Shouldn't you at least try to get your facts straight before you post nonsense like this?

A corporation with revenue of $1.5 billion and no profits would pay the $100,000 minimum tax. Not $16 million. $100,000.

Your company is going to lay off 200 people to pay a $100,000 tax bill? People at your company earn $500 per year?

I mean really. Look it up. Jesus.

barfo

I'll be really honest, barfo, this is what I was told by someone in the CFO's office. I do admit I really don't know. However, my friend's company is moving for the same reason so I'm presuming these people know what they're talking about. Maybe they're both lying to me, I really don't know.

As to looking it up and reading the bill, yeah I probably should but really don't have the time. So if you;re right and everyoine else is wrong, then that's one point for you.

 

[Paxil]

Companies use excuses to lay people off all the time. Mine used 9/11... started laying people off before it could have had any impact... etc... I've heard plenty of excuses... economy... profits... please shareholders you name it. Mostly it is just cleaning house. It is easier for them to point the finger at something else because to deflect anger.

The cost of moving a company is significant... way more significant that the extra tax could be... but like barfo I highly doubt there *is* any significant impact. Moving when your are having financial troubles may not be too bright... GI Joes was partly put under by on untimely change of their name to Joes.

 

[e_blazer]

This chart is helpful in determining the impact of Measure 67 on taxes for a given business:

http://www.ocpp.org/2009/20091102Measure67DecisionTree_fnl.pdf

 

[Paxil]

The way I am reading that is worst case 1.3% additional tax.... so if they paid 100K in taxes that would be what... an increase of $1300?

 

[maxiep]

Just a little more...

 

[Buzz Killington]

Lots of companies move to nevada.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

This chart is helpful in determining the impact of Measure 67 on taxes for a given business:

http://www.ocpp.org/2009/20091102Measure67DecisionTree_fnl.pdf

Well, that really makes me think I wasn;t getting the straight scoop and that Barfo may very well be right.

 

[Minstrel]

So then we liberals aren't getting the layoffs we all wanted from this new tax?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

So then we liberals aren't getting the layoffs we all wanted from this new tax?

Maybe not. But keep pitching.

 

[Minstrel]

Maybe not. But keep pitching.

Will do! Thanks for the encouragement. Eventually, we'd like to get to the point where all your friends pretend to you that they're laying people off, not just one.

Then, this will be a great nation.

 

[ABM]

Then, this will be a great nation.

IMO, the current liberal leaders are systematically working towards heavily damaging this nation....economically speaking. We're gonna struggle paying just the interest along on the mounting deficit.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

IMO, the current liberal leaders are systematically working towards heavily damaging this nation....economically speaking. We're gonna struggle paying just the interest along on the mounting deficit.

Deficits don't matter, don'tcha know?

 

[ABM]

Deficits don't matter, don'tcha know?

I blame the Bush Republicans for starting this mess...and the current Dems for "potentially" sending it into the stratosphere.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I think the Obama administration has set us on a path of no return to compete financial ruin.

 

[GriLtCheeZ]

I blame the Bush Republicans for starting this mess...and the current Dems for "potentially" sending it into the stratosphere.

Where is the debate on the perfect tax rate? It does seem that on one side it's always CUT CUT CUT taxes and in the other side it's always (as maxiep said) "just a little more."

It's always OREGONIANS AGAINST JOB KILLING TAXES vs "Won't somebody think of the poor children!"

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Our company laid off 2 people because of the business climate . . . the layoff came literally less than 48 hours after the tax measured passed.

Liberals can call it a lie . . . which I find ironic given the deceptive campaign techniques to pass the measures.

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

Our company laid off 2 people because of the business climate . . . the layoff came literally less than 48 hours after the tax measured passed.

Liberals can call it a lie . . . which I find ironic given the deceptive campaign techniques to pass the measures.

"Business climate?" well, Oregon is rated 14th best state business climate in the country as far as regulation & taxes...so their comment more likely means "we aren't selling enough".

 

[The_Lillard_King]

"Business climate?" well, Oregon is rated 14th best state business climate in the country as far as regulation & taxes...so their comment more likely means "we aren't selling enough".

When was that rating taken? And I would love to see a poll of business owners and where they rank Oregon when it comes to business climate.

There is a serious division in this state between businesses and public employees. And every time the public employees' union win a victory via election(which is often), it further divides these two groups . . . especially the way they go about campaigning.

It's fuuny because somehow public employees are painted as the underdogs. One poster even posted that measures got passed and the the little guys overcame all the big money spent to fight this. The truth is the pulic employees union is the bully with all the cash and influnece and lillte business guy has very little influence on a political scale.

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

When was that rating taken? And I would love to see a poll of business owners and where they rank Oregon when it comes to business climate.

There is a serious division in this state between businesses and public employees. And every time the public employees' union win a victory via election(which is often), it further divides these two groups . . . especially the way they go about campaigning.

It's fuuny because somehow public employees are painted as the underdogs. One poster even posted that measures got passed and the the little guys overcame all the big money spent to fight this. The truth is the pulic employees union is the bully with all the cash and influnece and lillte business guy has very little influence on a political scale.

It was a study from 2007-8 I believe. Just checked it out the other day because everyone in every state always believes their government is the worst/most wasteful. I'm sure this year's tax increase will hurt a little, but compared to most other states Oregon has a favorable climate for business.

Of course a poll of business owners towards local government would be negative...business owners always hate government. I grew up from age 11 working weekends in the manufacturing company my father started so I know all about governmental burdens...and why business owners hate them..and how ridiculous they can be. But, the argument that Oreogn is driving business away because of their "poor business climate" doesn't really hold a lot of water. Businesses move from one place to another all over the country...especially when localities pony up sweetheart deals for them.

I'm not a fan of PERS...I got into a big fight with an old gf of mine. She was a teacher and I was telling her PERS and the fact that they didn't have to make any contribution to the insurance costs for her family were out of line with the "real world"...she got very pissed...but I was right.

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

Here is the research for FY 2010.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/bp59.pdf

Oregon is ranked 14th best this year in corporate tax climate. For the past 4 years they were in the top 10. So, looking at this I can understand why business is concerned.

1 - Taxes went up slightly in FY 2010 and will go up more in FY 2011 with the new laws passed.
2 - The trend is towards higher taxes

But honestly...it's not like we are ANYWHERE near being bad as far as business taxation...we're not even close to average at this point. It will be interesting to see where OR ends up being ranked next year...

 

[Denny Crane]

Where is the debate on the perfect tax rate? It does seem that on one side it's always CUT CUT CUT taxes and in the other side it's always (as maxiep said) "just a little more."

It's always OREGONIANS AGAINST JOB KILLING TAXES vs "Won't somebody think of the poor children!"

These days, when the tax rates get too high, the masses start sending tea bags in the mail to their congressmen.

 

[Sug]

I'll be really honest, barfo, this is what I was told by someone in the CFO's office. I do admit I really don't know. However, my friend's company is moving for the same reason so I'm presuming these people know what they're talking about. Maybe they're both lying to me, I really don't know.

As to looking it up and reading the bill, yeah I probably should but really don't have the time. So if you;re right and everyoine else is wrong, then that's one point for you.

What company?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Here is the research for FY 2010.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/bp59.pdf

Oregon is ranked 14th best this year in corporate tax climate. For the past 4 years they were in the top 10. So, looking at this I can understand why business is concerned.

1 - Taxes went up slightly in FY 2010 and will go up more in FY 2011 with the new laws passed.
2 - The trend is towards higher taxes

But honestly...it's not like we are ANYWHERE near being bad as far as business taxation...we're not even close to average at this point. It will be interesting to see where OR ends up being ranked next year...

I don't think it is just the tax rate that have business owners upset with the state. It is the powerful political influence of the public employees that is really upsetting.

I don't know, but don't think, that other states have such a powerful public employees union. And the killer is they are incredibly effective on the political level. For some reason I have a hard time understanding, public employees are entitled to bumps each year no matter what the ecomonic situation. And if the gov't can't pay for these bumps, I guess corporations and wealthy people will.

But whatever, I can't imagine our company is leaving and it's not like they layed off hundreds here.

 

[MARIS61]

Maybe they're both lying to me, I really don't know.

They are most definitely lying to you.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

BTW-the kicker rebate is next to be taken away.

Let's see how posters feel when their own pocket is about to be picked to go to a rainy day fund . . . which really means go to support PERS and public employees salaries.

 

[Blazer_Hippie]

BTW-the kicker rebate is next to be taken away.

Let's see how posters feel when their own pocket is about to be picked to go to a rainy day fund . . . which really means go to support PERS and public employees salaries.

Yeah, "rainy day fund" when referred to in politics is just a lie. I'd like anyone to come up with an example of a government that was able to hold onto the concept long-term. It lasts a while then they start coming up with ways to raid it...if you doubt...go do some research on social security

The kicker is a bit odd...but it seems to me like it would be political suicide to stop it. Maybe we'll get a chance to see here in the near future...

 

[maxiep]

BTW-the kicker rebate is next to be taken away.

Let's see how posters feel when their own pocket is about to be picked to go to a rainy day fund . . . which really means go to support PERS and public employees salaries.

C'mon, it's just a little bit more...

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

What company?

Can't state it publicly as I'd be violating a trust.