Pat & Bazz

[Scalma]

since the all star break

Shabazz is shooting 34%, 31% from outside.

Pat: 28%, 23% from outside.

There’s no real stat I trust to measure individual defense, but from my naked eye, at least they’re not embarrassing themselves on that end. Shabazz in particular is still a pest defensively.

Terry is known to shorten his rotations in the playoffs, so Pat is most likely going to be out.

But in the meantime these two need to step up. Don’t want to make this into another Baldwin thread but since at least one of these guys won’t be playing in the playoffs, what’s the downside in cutting their minutes now and giving Baldwin a further look? Those two play about 33 minutes combined. Could easily find Wade 10-15, especially with Harkless out.

But back to my original point; step the fuck up.

 

[theprunetang]

I understand Pat struggling. He has definitely hit a wall. This is the first year of getting playing time on a nightly basis. He's probably fatigued. Not an excuse as I hope he steps it up as well. I can just understand. He's never gone through a full NBA season before.

 

[Scalma]

I understand Pat struggling. He has definitely hit a wall. This is the first year of getting playing time on a nightly basis. He's probably fatigued. Not an excuse as I hope he steps it up as well. I can just understand. He's never gone through a full NBA season before.

That’s fair. But you know what’s good for fatigue? Lol.

 

[Boob-No-More]

There’s no real stat I trust to measure individual defense, but from my naked eye, at least they’re not embarrassing themselves on that end. Shabazz in particular is still a pest defensively.

Both are definitely in a shooting slump - especially Pat.

However, both do other things that are helping the team win, especially on the defensive end.

Post all star break, Shabazzz has an insanely high 43.6% STL% which is first on the team by a long shot. Moe is 2nd at 30.2%. Aminu is 3rd at 27.3% and Pat is 4th at 20.6%.

Pat is 4th on the team in DRtg at exactly 100.0, trailing only Nurk (98.5), Dame (99.5) and Chief (99.8).

This one surprised me, but Pat is 5th in BLK% at 24.0% trailing only four of our defensive minded font court players (Nurk = 46.2%, Collins = 33.3%, Ed = 30.3%, Moe = 27.0).

I think the real key is they are part of the core rotation of players that Terry trusts, and I don't think that's going to change between now and the playoffs. I think he views the shooting slumps as temporary conditions, but as long as they are doing other things to help the team, I think he'll stick with the standard rotations, except during blowouts, until we clinch the third seed. Only then, will I expect to see more playing time for Baldwin.

BNM

 

[Scalma]

Both are definitely in a shooting slump - especially Pat.

However, both do other things that are helping the team win, especially on the defensive end.

Post all star break, Shabazzz has an insanely high 43.6% STL% which is first on the team by a long shot. Moe is 2nd at 30.2%. Aminu is 3rd at 27.3% and Pat is 4th at 20.6%.

Pat is 4th on the team in DRtg at exactly 100.0, trailing only Nurk (98.5), Dame (99.5) and Chief (99.8).

This one surprised me, but Pat is 5th in BLK% at 24.0% trailing only four of our defensive minded font court players (Nurk = 46.2%, Collins = 33.3%, Ed = 30.3%, Moe = 27.0).

I think the real key is they are part of the core rotation of players that Terry trusts, and I don't think that's going to change between now and the playoffs. I think he views the shooting slumps as temporary conditions, but as long as they are doing other things to help the team, I think he'll stick with the standard rotations, except during blowouts, until we clinch the third seed. Only then, will I expect to see more playing time for Baldwin.

BNM

Don’t know what site you’re using.

pats DRTG on the season is 111. 107 since the all star break.

His block % is good for 9th on the team.

His steal % is good for 13th.

Actually, if you look at his advanced numbers, he doesn’t really grade favorably anywhere.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/POR/2018.html

 

[Boob-No-More]

Don’t know what site you’re using.

pats DRTG on the season is 111. 107 since the all star break.

His block % is good for 9th on the team.

His steal % is good for 13th.

Actually, if you look at his advanced numbers, he doesn’t really grade favorably anywhere.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/POR/2018.html

The numbers I quoted are post all star splits, just like the shooting percentages you quoted. Same sample size.

I'm using nba.com. Basketball-reference doesn't give post all star splits for BLK% and STL%

BNM

 

[Scalma]

The numbers I quoted are post all star splits, just like the shooting percentages you quoted. Same sample size.

I'm using nba.com. Basketball-reference doesn't give post all star splits for BLK% and STL%

BNM

They do show post all star splits on some categories and those DRTG numbers you gave are different.

He’s had 6 blocks and 7 steals TOTAL since the all star break so those % numbers are off too.

 

[Boob-No-More]

They do show post all star splits on some categories and those DRTG numbers you gave are different.

He’s had 6 blocks and 7 steals TOTAL since the all star break so those % numbers are off too.

Don't shoot the messenger. Take it up with nba.com - the official site of the National Basketball Association. I'm only reporting their numbers.

BNM

 

[Scalma]

Don't shoot the messenger. Take it up with nba.com - the official site of the National Basketball Association. I'm only reporting their numbers.

BNM

Yeah well they suck then.

 

[jlprk]

The numbers I quoted are post all star splits

Here are some related statistics: "Post All-star Stats compared to Pre All-star Stats."

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketbal...-trail-blazers/team/profile/18/25/13-18-1-eff

The two Blazers in the thread title have dropped the most in efficiency.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Here are some related statistics: "Post All-star Stats compared to Pre All-star Stats."

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketbal...-trail-blazers/team/profile/18/25/13-18-1-eff

The two Blazers in the thread title have dropped the most in efficiency.

Thanks for posting that. However that site's version of eff is not an advanced stat. Its a simple summation of good minus bad basic per game traditional stats.

Pat has suffered the biggest decrease in minutes, so it's logical that his raw production, which is what that site measures, would also suffer the biggest decrease.

Also, the majority of both Shabazz' and Pat's decrease in eff is due to their decrease in scoring, caused by their recent shooting slumps.

It does show, however, that Pat's steals and blocks are both up, despite his minutes being down.

BNM

 

[jlprk]

However that site's version of eff is not an advanced stat. Its a simple summation of good minus bad basic per game traditional stats.

True, it uses the NBA.com definition. Non-advanced definitions are fine when comparing intra-team, but not inter-team.

Pat has suffered the biggest decrease in minutes, so it's logical that his raw production, which is what that site measures, would also suffer the biggest decrease.

Just click on the per-48 option.

http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketbal...-trail-blazers/team/profile/18/25/13-18-2-eff

 

[stampedehero]

I understand Pat struggling. He has definitely hit a wall. This is the first year of getting playing time on a nightly basis. He's probably fatigued. Not an excuse as I hope he steps it up as well. I can just understand. He's never gone through a full NBA season before.

You think fatigue? A bench player should not be fatigued. He is in a funk at the wrong time. I would give WB a lot of the season games. Bazz for playoff minutes for sure.

 

[Lanny]

I understand Pat struggling. He has definitely hit a wall. This is the first year of getting playing time on a nightly basis. He's probably fatigued. Not an excuse as I hope he steps it up as well. I can just understand. He's never gone through a full NBA season before.

I don't understand why you can say with certainty that he's hit a wall.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I don't understand why you can say with certainty that he's hit a wall.

I agree. Interestingly, he's played 17 more minutes so far this season (in 75 games) than he did in his senior season in college (in 38 games). That would seem to undercut the "wall" and "fatigue" claim.

 

[theprunetang]

I don't understand why you can say with certainty that he's hit a wall.

I have no certainty. I'm just a guy with an opinion.

 

[Boob-No-More]

If you look at Pat's month-by-month splits (.484, .400, .256, .352, .400, .242 3FG% by month this season), you'll see it's not really fatigue. Pat is just a streaky shooter. Some months he shoots like Kyle Korver and some months Andre Miller was better from downtown. March is just another down month for Patty Baseball. Hopefully, he gets going on a hot streak again during the playoffs.

BNM

 

[BBert]

I would guess that all the late night travel and odd hours is fatiguing. Also, with so many games I think many fans overlook the mental fatigue of the grind of the NBA. Again my guess, is that the mental fatigue for these athletes is a much bigger factor than the physical demands. That's where I believe rookies especially, and players who were not previously used to getting minutes, burn out during the season.

 

[theprunetang]

I would guess that all the late night travel and odd hours is fatiguing. Also, with so many games I think many fans overlook the mental fatigue of the grind of the NBA. Again my guess, is that the mental fatigue for these athletes is a bigger factor than the physical demands. That's where I believe rookies especially, and players who were not previously used to getting minutes, burn out during the season.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Scalma]

That’s not what I meant.

God please lock up the third seed asap so I at least get a break from this show.

 

[KingSpeed]

what’s the downside in cutting their minutes now and giving Baldwin a further look?

Baldwin was a -14 in 3:37 tonight. He is not ready to give us serious minutes in important games.

 

[Scalma]

Baldwin was a -14 in 3:37 tonight. He is not ready to give us serious minutes in important games.

1. That’s not an individual stat.

2. Three minutes is not a sample size.

3. He played serious minutes in an important game and scored more points than Connaughton has in the past three combined.

 

[KingSpeed]

1. That’s not an individual stat.

2. Three minutes is not a sample size.

3. He played serious minutes in an important game and scored more points than Connaughton has in the past three combined.

And we lost that game and he was a -2. Pat was a +3. And losing 14 points in 3.5 minutes is enough sample size to keep a guy off the court in my book. Remember when Nolan Smith gave up 18 points in 2.5 minutes? That ended up defining his NBA career.

 

[KingSpeed]

And it is an individual stat. Says how many points we gave up while HE was on the court.

 

[KingSpeed]

If shit falls apart when you enter a game, that's bad. When you play heavy minutes and lose to Memphis, that's bad. He's not ready for playing in important games with this team.

 

[Scalma]

And it is an individual stat. Says how many points we gave up while HE was on the court.

Most coaches don’t take that stat seriously. There’s a reason.

You want someone to blame for that bad stretch blame the guy that had selfishly had the ball in his hands.

 

[Scalma]

If shit falls apart when you enter a game, that's bad. When you play heavy minutes and lose to Memphis, that's bad. He's not ready for playing in important games with this team.

We lost to Memphis because of Wade Baldwin yeah good take there do you have any more?

 

[Scalma]

And we lost that game and he was a -2. Pat was a +3.

Precisely why no one that matters cares about that stat.

 

[Scalma]

“All of a sudden, the league slipped the plus/minus (into the boxscores) without any of us knowing about it,” Popovich said of a practice that began last season. “It’s the most meaningless thing on the whole sheet. I don’t know where (the idea) came from, who pioneered it, who slid it into the NBA, who thought it was cool.

”I’ve got no clue, but it’s the most useless thing there is on the whole stat sheet. It’s dangerous. It creates the wrong impressions for players. I hate it.”
/////

 

[KingSpeed]

Most coaches don’t take that stat seriously. There’s a reason.

You want someone to blame for that bad stretch blame the guy that had selfishly had the ball in his hands.

Stotts says he uses that stat as a factor in making decisions. It's not about who had the ball in his hands. There's defense. Blown coverages. And being out of position on offense.