PGOTF? Who is he? On the team? Not needed?

[Idog1976]

Well sadly as well all know we lost out on both CP3 AND Collison today. So who does that leave us with?

Homegrown if that's your thing we have Miller (getting old), Bayless (PG?), Johnson and Mills.

If you want to get crazy, and I do mean crazy unconventional we could look at Batum, Elliot Williams or Roy becoming PGOTF. All of those are as I said pretty crazy with the possible exception of Roy.

So then if you aren't satisfied by any of the above who do we target?

The only guy I see worth going after is Conley.

Anyone else out there worth looking at?

We really need to figure out some sort of consolidation move at this point.

Maybe something like this with a semi-protected pick or two coming our way?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2a3tnym

I know it's overpaying, but I was trying to work one out and it taint easy McGee unless you want to give up Joel and then we end up with too many players again.

We need to figure something out. Anyone think Flynn is worth looking at? Could Love be pried away along with Flynn?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

How many times?

You think I jest. No, I'm just deluded. We did pretty well with Blake. Koponen is a 6'5" Blake with better handles and better defense.

Failing that, I'm hoping that Armon Johnson fits the Alvin Williams/Eric Snow mold of overlooked-good-PG-on-a-college-team-with-a-better-regarded-scorer.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Here's the deal. We're all jonesing for Chris Paul (well, actually Deron Williams in my case, but let it pass). But he takes away from Roy's game. So what, you say HE'S CHRIS FUCKING PAUL!!!!!111!!! Well, it would also be the case that we gave up a lot to get him (and now we're not gonna anyway, but let that pass too). So it would be nice if he made our remaining players better rather than worse. And Kobe Bryant and Dwyane Wade both managed to win titles with pretty nondescript PGs, right? The starriest PGs who've won titles recently have been:
Chauncey Billups
Tony Parker
Rajon Rondo
But Rondo and Billups played with SGs who were much more "catch and shoot" kind of guys, and much less "gimme the ball and let me create".
Parker is the odd one out, because Ginobili's game is actually very similar to Roy's. But Parker is an oddity because he's French, and he's been with Popovich since he was a teenager. The Frenchiness means that he's not an American streetballer with an ego (bear with me, this is important). He doesn't think his manhood rests on him proving himself. He can do his thing, but he's also perfectly happy to have Manu be the point for large stretches of the game. I don't think Chris Paul is wired like that. Maybe Deron is, because of Sloan, but we've never seen it tested because the best ball-handling SG he's played with has been (no joke) Derek Fisher.

Conclusion: we need a PG who, like Derek Fisher for Kobe, magnifies Roy's strengths. (Or we need to trade Roy, but that's another story.)
Blake was almost that, despite his manifest weaknesses, which is why the Lakers have annointed him Fisher's successor. We need a Better Blake.
Maybe it's Mo Williams? I don't think I could stand the bad defense, but if we want him, we could have him for Miller and filler (poet!). Maybe it's Tony Parker himself. But at what cost? And his body has taken a beating with all those playoff games. But maybe, just maybe, it could be Koponen, who actually played Parker remarkably well in the Finnish victory over France last summer.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I like Conley well enough: he's quick, he can run a pick and roll, he can shoot from distance and he's not a terrible defender (though it's hard to tell whether or not he's good at it, considering how generally terrible his team is at defense). as for the trade you outlined that is paying too much in my opinion. Arthur is terrible and probably not going to get a lot better. Perhaps instead of your proposed deal the Blazers could trade Rudy, Bayless and a signed and traded Mills for Conley, which would clean up some log jams and give the Grizz some cheap young guards to look at.

Regarding Petko, I haven't seen him play a single minute since 2008 Summer League where he got to be Jerryd's caddy, so who knows.

 

[mook]

I think we don't have or necessarily need a "point guard of the future." I'm happy to recycle guys like Andre Miller, Billups, Nash and others who want to hop on board for a last shot at a ring.

Besides, Andre Miller is only 33. John Stockton (although admittedly far superior) lasted until 40 playing the same kind of ground-based, pass first style. Jason Kidd is still an above average starting PG at 36. Who's to say we don't have Miller here for another three or four years?

Miller isn't a great perimeter shooter, but he's decent from midrange and we've got good shooters at SG, SF and PF. Hell, maybe Aldridge develops legit three point range and transforms into Nowitzki-lite.

For the coming championship window, we've got a lot of guys basically within 3 or 4 years of each other in age. I'd like to have one extremely seasoned veteran starter. PG seems like the best place to stack one.

Maybe it isn't Miller. Steve Nash gets paid $10 mil this year and $11 mil next. If Phoenix completely falls apart (certainly possible) we might be able to trade for him with odds and ends. Nash seems like an incredibly bad fit for a McMillan team at first blush, but who's to say Nate will still be around then. Or that Nate wouldn't be willing to loosen it up a little at that point.

 

[Mediocre Man]

It's tough because on this team, with this offensive system, and this personel, we need a spot up shooter who is a lock down defender of quick penetrating PG's. But if Nate, or another coach, were to expand the offense, and Roy learned to trust his teammates more, then a PG like Rondo would be perfect. Chalmers, Westbrook and maybe even a guy like, but not, Delonte West.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Probably the best readily available PGs right now are Mo "All Star" Williams, and Jose "cautious" Calderon. Both are defensive sieves. I desperately want to move Bayless, because I think he ruins our second unit by being a ball-stopper, but I'm not sure either of them is the answer. If I had my druthers, I'd go for Calderon, because he's less selfish and a better passer than Mo Williams, and because, if we hang on to Rudy, I have a feeling he'd play a lot better with Calderon (although that would be one porous backcourt). Would the Raptors give up Calderon for, say, Przybilla and Bayless? I dunno. They seem to be doing an about face from All-slow-skilled-Euro to All-Absurdly-Athletic-American team (latest evidence: Belinelli for Wright), so maybe they might. I can just imagine the squeals of rage on this forum, though - not only not unloading "Trudy" but bringing in MORE Eurotrash!!?? And for JayBay?

(Wow, better stop. I'm becoming one of those sneerers.)

 

[espn_hall_of_famer]

I like Conley (and the mental boost it would give Greg to have his longtime pass-first partner out there). But I'm not too quick to jump on anything.

We have a top 10 PG in Miller and a veteran who will give us that veteran presence on the roster and in the huddle through the playoff run. It's not like we know Miller is gone at the trade deadline or going to get injured, etc. So we don't have to count on Bayless or Johnson right now. We can develop those guys hopefully for 82 games here and see if either breaks out. If neither do, then we look at the next batch of young PG's out there either via the top half of the lottery to attempt to trade into, or some other young player that might be available as a good long-term solution.

For now, just be thankful we have Miller there and healthy and don't need to do anything rash as we have all the pieces to go deep so long as Roy and Oden play 70+ games.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

It's tough because on this team, with this offensive system, and this personel, we need a spot up shooter who is a lock down defender of quick penetrating PG's. But if Nate, or another coach, were to expand the offense, and Roy learned to trust his teammates more, then a PG like Rondo would be perfect. Chalmers, Westbrook and maybe even a guy like, but not, Delonte West.

What I wouldn't give to hand the ball to Rondo and just tell the rest of the team to keep up. That would be sweet.

While I love Delonte West, insanity and all, he's not a PG. He played PG briefly in the down years in Boston, but then they got good.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Probably the best readily available PGs right now are Mo "All Star" Williams, and Jose "cautious" Calderon. Both are defensive sieves. I desperately want to move Bayless, because I think he ruins our second unit by being a ball-stopper, but I'm not sure either of them is the answer. If I had my druthers, I'd go for Calderon, because he's less selfish and a better passer than Mo Williams, and because, if we hang on to Rudy, I have a feeling he'd play a lot better with Calderon (although that would be one porous backcourt). Would the Raptors give up Calderon for, say, Przybilla and Bayless? I dunno. They seem to be doing an about face from All-slow-skilled-Euro to All-Absurdly-Athletic-American team (latest evidence: Belinelli for Wright), so maybe they might. I can just imagine the squeals of rage on this forum, though - not only not unloading "Trudy" but bringing in MORE Eurotrash!!?? And for JayBay?

(Wow, better stop. I'm becoming one of those sneerers.)

Calderon on offense would work pretty well, and I'd probably make the trade you outline here, but damn ... there's just no way Nate would put Calderon and Rudy on the court at the same time because of defensive reasons and we'd still be no closer to clearing the log jam at the 2 guard. Under your scenario this would be our backcourt:
Miller/Cal_eron/Armon
Roy*/Matthews/Ru_y/Williams

*to be perfectly fair there's no 'D' in 'Roy' either

 

[RR7]

I actually think, and mentioned it in a different thread, that someone like Jarrett Jack is pretty close to what we would need or want at the point, IMO. And KP got, maybe, slightly greedy, going for Jack on steroids. But, we were at a place where I think it was likely ok to take a chance like that. Not to say it has failed or anything. I still think Bayless can be the PGOTF for us. Barring that, I can see Armon Johnson being fairly similar to both as well. Similar enough to fit.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I actually think, and mentioned it in a different thread, that someone like Jarrett Jack is pretty close to what we would need or want at the point, IMO. And KP got, maybe, slightly greedy, going for Jack on steroids. But, we were at a place where I think it was likely ok to take a chance like that. Not to say it has failed or anything. I still think Bayless can be the PGOTF for us. Barring that, I can see Armon Johnson being fairly similar to both as well. Similar enough to fit.

Not too worry, we just drafted Jerryd Bayless on steroids in Eliot Williams

As for Johnson, I have some hope for him being a pretty effective backup at some point down the line, but we've been down this road before with young point guards, so I refuse to get completely suckered into thinking he'll stick until I see it with my own two eyes.

 

[RR7]

Good lord, Williams is Bayless on steroids? What does that make him from Jack? An overdose of steroids? I can't wait until we draft Elliot Williams on steroids. Look out! Unfortunately, that's probably Brandon Roy Jr. Still, I think we can sign him.

I'm not gonna get TOO excited about Armon. I just think we don't need a ton out of the PG position, and think we can get by with a second rounder playing it. I've felt we didn't really need a PGOTF. That we can keep on bringing in guys like Miller, in the Fisher mold, instead of finding one guy the same age as everyone else. So if he can knock down a shot, play competent D, and be alright getting to the line, I'm good with it. Doesn't have to excel at any.

 

[LameR]

Miller for the near future, we'll worry about the rest in a couple years when we know what Bayless/Johnson/Williams/Petko/next flavor of the month look like at the time.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

I was on this bandwagon a year before he was drafted but if Fez Hammersticks had his way in the 2009 draft I would have thrown anything to trade up to #3 or #4 to grab Steph Curry. The perfect PG next to Roy, IMO. Shoulda' coulda' woulda'

 

[MARIS61]

We are farther away from getting our PGOTF than we ever have been.

Neither Mildew nor Choad seems to know much about talent or players and Nate will refuse to play any truly creative PG they get him anyway.

Our management/coaching team is the team that needs a total rebuild now, not the players.

 

[andalusian]

At this point, Armon "Palace" Johnson has as goof a chance as anyone, long term.

 

[RR7]

I was on this bandwagon a year before he was drafted but if Fez Hammersticks had his way in the 2009 draft I would have thrown anything to trade up to #3 or #4 to grab Steph Curry. The perfect PG next to Roy, IMO. Shoulda' coulda' woulda'

Coulda'?

It's easy to just name very good players, and say we should get them. Actually having a reasonable method of getting them is another thing.

 

[STOMP]

Roy and LA are on the books for big dollars for many more years. Wes is due a nice chunk of change too. If Batum and Greg earn sizable extensions this year, what sort of dollars are left over for PG and the rest of the team? I don't expect them to be operating into lux tax land.

I'm aware that a new CBA is coming that may change matters but I wouldn't be surprised to see them going with some less expensive options to keep the team from going too deep into the red

STOMP

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I read into the Wes Matthews signing the exact opposite. Paul Allen dropped a serious chunk o' change on a guy who plays the same position as Roy, and so will forever be a backup. He did that knowing full well we are likely going to be paying whoppers to Batum and Oden, and already are paying through the nose for Aldridge and Roy.

I see that signing (and also a pretty hefty signing for Camby--again a backup) and I look at an owner with cancer, and I hear him saying in my head, "Fuck it. What else am I going to do with all this money?"

I have very little doubt right now that Allen is fully committed to paying whatever it takes to field the best team possible. It's 1999 all over again, and the purse strings are wide open. Let's hope this time we get a little more bang for our buck.

Possibly; he is donating most of his fortune to charity, so it's not like he's being stingy with it outside the Blazers.

 

[mook]

Possibly; he is donating most of his fortune to charity, so it's not like he's being stingy with it outside the Blazers.

I started another thread on the subject, so I deleted the post here.