Plain and simple

[JD30]

2 things stand out for not getting it done this year that most people are just glossing over:

-as much as St Louis was responsible for the run last yr...he was just as much responsible for them losing this yr. He had chances upon chances but did nothing and got way too much ice time on PP which was horrible.

- Certain lines and guys get hot and cold in playoff series BUT the lack of grit/attitude from this roster is the main reason for not getting it done ! Our top players (Lundqvist, McD this yr...Gaborik in past ) get run over year after year with a roster unable to answer. We have no toughness (I'm not talking just fighters) to make the opposition think twice...no shift that we can send out a line to just go bang the shit out of the other team's top line to get momentum, no big D to make opponents pay down low- thats why we sucked at home. Without those gritty players, you get like Orpik and Ovechkin taking runs at our best guys with no answer. Even "tough guy" Stamkos felt empowered to take some runs. Injuries from these hits mount up and we're left playing our "puck possession" strategy in a 7 game series over and over. When you remove guys like Pouliot, B Boyle from last yr, and going back, a guy like Prust, you need to replace their role with a similar gritty player. Glass showed nothing and Hagelin, Fast and Zuccarello are all same role player/mold that quickly wear down in playoffs.

This team is not about the future, so lets stop talking about draft picks...that time of sacrifice has happened and young guys are already in place. The time to "go for it " is here. Whoever is running this team (sather or gorton or whoever) has just forgotten what it takes to win playoff series....and it's been shown to the Rangers for past 3 years. When challenged in a series they have no answer. Playing six "puck moving" , "finesse first" defense may work out against Montreal and Pitt but they will eventually get pounded and worn down by teams like Wash, Boston and now Isles. Having no consistent grit in your bottom 6 forwards is the final recipe for disaster the Rangers have seemed to perfect in what will be looked at in years to come as "the time we should have won it"

 

[strudwickisthebest]

Fast didn't wear down in the playoffs at all.. Zucc plays like he's 6'5

 

[kreidertime]

Chicago has gone for it every year and has acquired many picks, prospects and kept their picks. So it's pretty clear what Sather did isn't not smart. They didn't win. If they won you could have made a case for his moves. They won nothing.

 

[JD30]

not winning was not a result of the moves Sather made. It was a result of moves he did not make...not adding the dimension of grit and toughness. As far as draft picks etc, any pick outside of first 10 picks that quickly makes an NHL roster only show how good your scouts are. Since Toews went 3 in 2006 and Toews went #1 in 2007, the Blackhawks have had over 15 players chosen in rounds 1 and 2 not considering last years draft. Of those 15 or so players in that time frame , only Teravainen(18th pick) and Saad(2nd rd 13th pick) are NHL players. They also wasted a 1st round pick on Kevin Hayes b/c they couldnt sign him. During that same time 2006 til now , the Rangers have had 13 players who were 1st and 2nd round picks- Anisimov, Stepan, Kreider, Del Zotto, and JT Miller are all NHL players but obviously not Toews and Kane. So comparing the Blackhawks and Rangers shows both teams kept their picks.

All I'm saying is there is a time to focus on building a team around top players and a time to focus on getting the right pieces to a team ready to win. Whether it's Sather or a combination of Sather and Vigneualt, they have not gotten those gritty/tough players to blend with the talent they have...and it cost them. Too many guys are trying to play multiple roles and just cant do it. Kreider hasnt succeeded trying to be a speed type goal scorer and banger/masher at same time...looks lost at times. McD is not next coming of Leetch and a shut down guy at same time...another guy who looks lost at times. Roles arent clearly defined b/c roster has a few too many holes (no one to win faceoffs, no tough D to punish other team, no grit in bottom six) that have not been addressed or are trying to be filled by guys not able to do so.

 

[kreidertime]

You don't have to sell me that this team is soft. Especially on D. I've been saying for a while he needs to develop McIlrath. Not to mention add a couple of physical, role player forwards or prospects that can contribute on offense instead of useless Glass.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

Chicago has gone for it every year and has acquired many picks, prospects and kept their picks. So it's pretty clear what Sather did isn't not smart. They didn't win. If they won you could have made a case for his moves. They won nothing.

They could do that with toews and kane

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[Ranger71]

Chicago also picked up Hossa and drafted Keith/Seabrook and made better secondary moves than Sather has. That's where a big difference is made, in the bottom six.

 

[kreidertime]

Stop with the Toews and Kane stupidity. 2 people don't win cups. It helps to have a couple franchise guys. The Rangers have one in Lundqvist. They were supposed to have another in Nash. Nash hasn't delivered and that falls on the GM because he's the one who decided he was the missing piece. The Hawks put a lot around their franchise players and you don't want to give them any credit for it.

 

[NYR31]

AGree with Dump. Stop with the K ane/Toews retardation. Go look at the Penguins with Crosby/Malkin. Do they compete every year for the Cup? no. they're not a very good team.

 

[kreidertime]

Now, I've always said that almost all the teams who win have tanked seasons and gotten 1 or 2 franchise players. That being said, the Lightning still didn't win jack with Hedman and Stamkos until they stole Johnson who wasn't even drafted, took Palat in the 7th round and then Kucherov like 17th in the first round. Without them, they don't even get out of the first round. You have to build around a couple of top players.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

Again lets not forget the death of the cherapov (sp) kid did set back this franchise. Also i guess we get no credit for Hayes?
No building blocks to help the franchise players...i guess zucc isnt helpful. But what ever this team sucks i guess

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[theProdigy223]

AGree with Dump. Stop with the K ane/Toews retardation. Go look at the Penguins with Crosby/Malkin. Do they compete every year for the Cup? no. they're not a very good team.

I don't think it's retardation, I think the Toews and Kane discussion puts everything in context. You can't point to the Blakhawks and say "this is how we should have built our team" because we didnt have two lottery picks to get two franchise players. We had to trade first rounders to get franchise talent here.

What does make sense is to say "Look at the Hawks, look at the Lightning, that's how you build a STRONG SUPPORTING CAST around the franchise players that they took in the lottery and didnt have to give anything up for." Then you can compare them to the Oilers and Penguins, who have no clue how to build a team around the superstars they drafted in the lottery.

It's not the Toews and Kane talk that's nonsense, it's the Hawks talk in general. Comparing their team to ours is apples to oranges.

 

[NYR31]

Prod, my response was mainly to Al's point that "the Hawks can do it because they have Towes and Kane", because there are other teams (ie Pens) who have 2 studs as well but they don't win anywhere as much. Like you said, it's the supporting cast. If the Hawks didn't have that it would not matter they have T & K.

 

[Messiah717]

We all thought Nash was the missing piece. Stop the stupidity in every thread with the thought that Sather made some idiotic decision to bring him here.

 

[kreidertime]

We all thought Nash was the missing piece. Stop the stupidity in every thread with the thought that Sather made some idiotic decision to bring him here.

Again, stop with the stupidity of looking at what people said in the past when they are evaluating the future. The Nash deal has been idiotic at this point in time because they haven't won anything and he's been pathetic in the playoffs almost all the time.

 

[Messiah717]

Again, stop with the stupidity of looking at what people said in the past when they are evaluating the future. The Nash deal has been idiotic at this point in time because they haven't won anything and he's been pathetic in the playoffs almost all the time.

Again, if you want to evaluate everything in hindsite that's fine but it's completely stupid.

 

[kreidertime]

Nobody cares about at the time. We care about the end result. The end result was that the moves haven't worked and the farm is depleted as are our picks.

 

[Messiah717]

Nobody cares about at the time. We care about the end result. The end result was that the moves haven't worked and the farm is depleted as are our picks.

So you loved moves at the time but you want to be right so bad you now think everything is terrible. We get it but it doesn't make it any less stupid.

 

[Ranger71]

If they had kept Dubinsky, AA, Callahan and Erixon who's done nothing plus a few late 1sts they probably don't make it as far as they have the last 2y. They were right in the LA series but didn't make the plays and convert. There's no guarantee bringing another forward over Nash is going to make plays in a game 7 either.