Potential Upside Podcast- Ep 3 Allen Crabbe- What's Crabbe cost?

[Dan Marang]

Hey all-
The latest episode of the Potential Upside Podcast is up- in it we talk about my piece on Allen Crabbe, what he brings to the table, his contemporaries, what he'll cost and whether he'll be around for the long haul.

It's available at RipCityRadio's homepage: http://ripcityradio.iheart.com/onair/rip-city-mornings-56071/potential-upside-podcast-ep03-14322013/

Also available on iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/potential-upside-podcast-ep03/id1055412410?i=361443134&mt=2

 

[riverman]

Hey all-
The latest episode of the Potential Upside Podcast is up- in it we talk about my piece on Allen Crabbe, what he brings to the table, his contemporaries, what he'll cost and whether he'll be around for the long haul.

It's available at RipCityRadio's homepage: http://ripcityradio.iheart.com/onair/rip-city-mornings-56071/potential-upside-podcast-ep03-14322013/

Also available on iTunes: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/potential-upside-podcast-ep03/id1055412410?i=361443134&mt=2

Great job Dan! Question...I was listening from 2 rooms away while cooking early on and did you compare CJ to Ben Gordon? If you did, I thought it was an interesting comparison. I thoroughly enjoy these...and the members of the forum here appreciate anything that will distract me from posting in the threads.

 

[Dan Marang]

Great job Dan! Question...I was listening from 2 rooms away while cooking early on and did you compare CJ to Ben Gordon? If you did, I thought it was an interesting comparison. I thoroughly enjoy these...and the members of the forum here appreciate anything that will distract me from posting in the threads.

yeah I did- in a statistical sense. Their numbers are nearly identical, take a look for yourself.

http://bkref.com/tiny/zMSNQ

 

[PtldPlatypus]

yeah I did- in a statistical sense. Their numbers are nearly identical, take a look for yourself.

http://bkref.com/tiny/zMSNQ

I think it works better with single season rather than cumulative.

http://bkref.com/tiny/ibgTv

Also, I think it should be considered that Gordon was doing that as the unquestioned #1 option on that team, while CJ is doing what he does as the #2 guy.

 

[Denny Crane]

I suggested the Gordon comparison

I'm fine that you ran with it.

It's OK.

He signed the QO and became a FA with the Bulls. He then signed a 5 year $59M deal with the Pistons and ended up in a horrible situation.

 

[Dan Marang]

I suggested the Gordon comparison

I'm fine that you ran with it.

It's OK.

He signed the QO and became a FA with the Bulls. He ended up signing a 5 year $59M deal with the Pistons and ended up in a horrible situation.

Yes you did and thank you for that! I had 30 other players that matched up pretty well but I never picked up Gordon b/c I didn't adjust the assists/assist rate down far enough to pick him up.

I think it's a genuine question to ask... do you think CJ is Gordon 2.0? If so how can you move him for maximum return value? If not, what do you think his ceiling is?

 

[Denny Crane]

Yes you did and thank you for that! I had 30 other players that matched up pretty well but I never picked up Gordon b/c I didn't adjust the assists/assist rate down far enough to pick him up.

I think it's a genuine question to ask... do you think CJ is Gordon 2.0? If so how can you move him for maximum return value? If not, what do you think his ceiling is?

The knock on CJ, as with Gordon, is their height at the SG position. CJ has better handles, though Gordon probably should have been a PG from the start in the NBA and would have developed a better PG game.

Gordon had so many double digit scoring quarters and a few 20 point quarters (I believe). He was THE guy who had the ball at end of quarters and games for the last shot. He made a ridiculous number of buzzer beaters to win games. If you put the ball in his hands a lot, it ended up in the basket a lot.

The 2009 playoffs against the Celtics was one of the greatest series ever. The defending champion Celtics won 4-3 against a 41 win Bulls team led by Gordon. 4 of the games went into OT, including one 2OT and one 3OT. Gordon scored 42 in game 2, 26 in game 5, and 33 in game 7. Gordon wasn't exactly the #1 option on that team, as they had a healthy ROY Derrick Rose as his running mate. Gordon averaged 24.3 PPG in that series, Rose had 36 in game 1 and averaged 19.7.

 

[Denny Crane]

CJ has had four 30+ point games this season. In 2006-07, Gordon had three 40+ games and another twelve of 30+.

 

[Dan Marang]

The knock on CJ, as with Gordon, is their height at the SG position. CJ has better handles, though Gordon probably should have been a PG from the start in the NBA and would have developed a better PG game.

Gordon had so many double digit scoring quarters and a few 20 point quarters (I believe). He was THE guy who had the ball at end of quarters and games for the last shot. He made a ridiculous number of buzzer beaters to win games. If you put the ball in his hands a lot, it ended up in the basket a lot.

The 2009 playoffs against the Celtics was one of the greatest series ever. The defending champion Celtics won 4-3 against a 41 win Bulls team led by Gordon. 4 of the games went into OT, including one 2OT and one 3OT. Gordon scored 42 in game 2, 26 in game 5, and 33 in game 7. Gordon wasn't exactly the #1 option on that team, as they had a healthy ROY Derrick Rose as his running mate. Gordon averaged 24.3 PPG in that series, Rose had 36 in game 1 and averaged 19.7.

He wasn't "The Rainmaker" for nothing. Dude could score in bunches like no one else- something I've seen CJ do a few times. I think CJ has the potential to be more, but if a Godfather offer for him came down the pipe I'd have to listen to the offer if I'm NO. This is the gamble that the Blazers front office has to make, sticking w/CJ or moving him while his value is this high.

If you knew that CJ was going to be Ben Gordon- do you max him out and keep him? Or do you move him?

 

[Denny Crane]

Ben Gordon wasn't worth MAX. I don't think CJ is, either.

However, there may be so many teams with cap space to burn that bidding wars turn into ridiculously high contracts.

I do think NO should match any offer for CJ. I'd offer $12M or whatever NO is comfortable with and if he wants to go get a better offer, tell him we'll match.

 

[Denny Crane]

Also, BG didn't hesitate to drive to the basket.

 

[Denny Crane]

Look at the vertical.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

@Denny Crane please don't move the latest couple threads in this series to the sub forum. I didn't see like 7 responses on this one since it moved. Once you see no one has responded in at least 3 days and it drops off page one of the main forum then it is ok to move imo.

 

[riverman]

I had asked the question about CJ being cautious about going into the paint to avoid injury..thanks for addressing that. I think he does not want to risk getting paid as well.

 

[Dan Marang]

Also, BG didn't hesitate to drive to the basket.

this was the biggest difference in the BG v CJ comparison- and I almost didn't make it b/c of that. But it also helped illustrate that even with finishing at the rim/FTs he was ON PAR w/current CJ. That's what lead me to the whole CJ could be a 25-26PPG guy if he put that part of his game together. It's a big if, but that's part of the question as to whether or no CJ is "worth it" - so to speak.

 

[Dan Marang]

Look at the vertical.

typically a vertical like that hurts a jump shooter. Ultimately that's why I think Martell struggled with consistency. H was soon bouncy on his J- it was about as pure looking as I've ever seen but very inconsistent. I know many shooting "doctors"/coaches that prescribe a certain level for a repeatable jumper- actually Al Farouq is a perfect example of this- he toned his jumper down from last year to this year. He has a much more consistent base now - and you're seeing that in his 3 point percentage this year.

But as for BG- he made it work. Dude was pretty strong so that probably had something to do with it. Not to mention he could hit shots off balance, whereas come guys just can't do that.

 

[riverman]

Who's next? Aminu?

 

[Denny Crane]

typically a vertical like that hurts a jump shooter. Ultimately that's why I think Martell struggled with consistency. H was soon bouncy on his J- it was about as pure looking as I've ever seen but very inconsistent. I know many shooting "doctors"/coaches that prescribe a certain level for a repeatable jumper- actually Al Farouq is a perfect example of this- he toned his jumper down from last year to this year. He has a much more consistent base now - and you're seeing that in his 3 point percentage this year.

But as for BG- he made it work. Dude was pretty strong so that probably had something to do with it. Not to mention he could hit shots off balance, whereas come guys just can't do that.

He's 6' shooting over the 6'6" Ray Allen in that picture. The guy could jump out of the gym.

I tried to find a picture of a monster block he made. His head was close to basket level and his arm stretched to about top of the backboard.

 

[Orion Bailey]

When is the next Podcast Dan? I'm eager to hear what you have to say in light of the all star weekend and games that have followed.

 

[Dan Marang]

When is the next Podcast Dan? I'm eager to hear what you have to say in light of the all star weekend and games that have followed.

tomorrow... in fact- take a look at the new post in 3....2....1....