Potentially an issue with the VP debate

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maxiep

maxiep

RIP Dr. Jack
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Gwen Ifill is writing a book "The Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama", which by all accounts is a flattering portrait of the candidate. Furthermore, Random House is releasing the book January 20, 2009--the day our new president inaugurated. Here's a link:

http://www.pbs.org/weta/washingtonweek/gwen/

http://www.randomhouse.com/catalog/display.pperl/9780385525015.html

Granted, while the book is only tangentially about Sen. Obama, this book will sell dramatically better if he's elected than if he isn't. I happen to think Ms. Ifill is an excellent journalist and I've always enjoyed her work on the News Hour and Washington Week. That being said, there's little doubt where her sympaties lie and with this book she now has a financial incentive as well as a political incentive to be for one candidate over the other.

I'm surprised both parties agreed to have her moderate the VP debate.
 
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GOP just laying the foundation for the whine-fest after Palin makes herself look silly on Thursday night.

This argument is a little silly. It's not like she's Rush Limbaugh or Al Franken. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't really see how she could subtly moderate a debate in one candidate's favor. Both candidates get the same question, same time to respond, and the same opportunities for rebuttal. Unless she cuts Palin off and doesn't do the same for Biden.

If anything now, she's likely to overcorrect and slant her moderation in Palin's favor so she doesn't appear to be favoring Biden.

Just another spin attempt from the GOP. They've known for a long time who the moderator was and about her involvement in this book. They just decided to bitch about it the day before the debates. How convenient.

-Pop
 
Its not spin, its a legitimate gripe. Moderators should be neutral in their approach to debates. This moderator has financial gain to be had by having Obama win, therefore is not appropriate to have be a moderator.
 
Picking on Palin by either Biden or the moderator would be the worst thing for the Obama campaign. In fact, don't expect Biden to attack Palin or belittle her.

Personally I think Biden is in a no win situation and this debate is going to be more about whether Palin can redeem herself and put these latest interivews off of voters minds.
 
Biden has to absoultely destroy Palin, based on the negative hype that she gets. Nothing short of making her cry on stage would be a victory for him IMO.

You see, when you lower expectations, any reasonable performance is seen as a plus. Just like what happened when she made her speech.
 
Xericx said:
Biden has to absoultely destroy Palin, based on the negative hype that she gets. Nothing short of making her cry on stage would be a victory for him IMO.

You see, when you lower expectations, any reasonable performance is seen as a plus. Just like what happened when she made her speech.
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I agree about the low expectations.

But Obama's camp is already playing this debate by letting the press know that Biden does not plan on attacking Palin. I heard that Obama's camp has told the press this on the radio coming to work. I'm sure that move is to lower expectations of Biden crushing Palin.
 
The problem is that the press is having a field day painting Palin as totally fucking stupid. She may be...but the thing is, any semblance that she can speak at all would be a slap in that critcism. All of these attacks and youtubes and punches at Palin right now are actually lowering all expectations for her at this debate. Kind of the reverse of what you expect.
 
Xericx said:
The problem is that the press is having a field day painting Palin as totally fucking stupid. She may be...but the thing is, any semblance that she can speak at all would be a slap in that critcism. All of these attacks and youtubes and punches at Palin right now are actually lowering all expectations for her at this debate. Kind of the reverse of what you expect.
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Hey, we are on the same page on this one. I agree and think that this debate will cahnge the polls.

If Palin comes across that she is capable of thinking on her feet and expressing herself decently, that will change a lot of current perception about Palin. At the same time if she reinforces what some have concluded after the interivews, that is something she probably won't be able to overcome in the remaining weeks.

Intersting note: only several people in my office have seen the Palin interviews, most have heard the commentary about them but haven't seen them . . . and they are predicting record amount of people watching a VP debate tomorrow.
 
The thing is, if the moderator at all appears biased, it will look like a "fix". I think the moderator being black will also have some kind of subliminal effect on much of "middle america" if she appears to be throwing curve balls to Biden and trying to trap palin.

The GOP would be best serve to publicize this moderator's potential biases as much as possible.
 
Ifill will either be criticized by the GOP for being unfair to Palin due to an obvious conflict of interest, or she will be criticized by Dems for being unfair to Biden in an effort to seem "objective".

The easy answer is for her to recuse herself and let Jim Lehrer, who did a great job on Friday night, moderate the debate.
 
Xericx said:
The problem is that the press is having a field day painting Palin as totally fucking stupid.
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Palin's doing that to herself.

But I understand the Republicans have to grasp at straws at this point, and really the only thing they've got is to try to blame the media. Some people are falling for it, but any reasonable person can see that Palin's being asked completely reasonable questions for someone who aspires to one of the highest offices in the nation.

Nobody's picking on her. There's no conspiracy. But when you get asked a legitimate question about the bailout package, and you start rambling incoherently about health care reform and free trade and job creation, the natural response is "What the fuck is she talking about?"

America expects their vice presidential candidates to be able to put together a competent thought about current issues. And when one of them can't, the media is going to cover it.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't feel sorry for the Republican ticket. McCain knew what he was getting when he picked Palin. He gambled and picked a completely interesting but inexperienced candidate with a shady political history who doesn't speak well in impromptu situations. He'd never admit this, but my guess is if he could go back and pick a different running mate, he would.

-Pop
 
PapaG said:
Ifill will either be criticized by the GOP for being unfair to Palin due to an obvious conflict of interest, or she will be criticized by Dems for being unfair to Biden in an effort to seem "objective".

The easy answer is for her to recuse herself and let Jim Lehrer, who did a great job on Friday night, moderate the debate.
Click to expand...

That would be the easy answer, but to further her career and book sales, she is going to stay the moderator.
 
SodaPopinski said:
Palin's doing that to herself.

But I understand the Republicans have to grasp at straws at this point, and really the only thing they've got is to try to blame the media. Some people are falling for it, but any reasonable person can see that Palin's being asked completely reasonable questions for someone who aspires to one of the highest offices in the nation.

Nobody's picking on her. There's no conspiracy. But when you get asked a legitimate question about the bailout package, and you start rambling incoherently about health care reform and free trade and job creation, the natural response is "What the fuck is she talking about?"

America expects their vice presidential candidates to be able to put together a competent thought about current issues. And when one of them can't, the media is going to cover it.

You'll have to excuse me if I don't feel sorry for the Republican ticket. McCain knew what he was getting when he picked Palin. He gambled and picked a completely interesting but inexperienced candidate with a shady political history who doesn't speak well in impromptu situations. He'd never admit this, but my guess is if he could go back and pick a different running mate, he would.

-Pop
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From the ones I've seen, they seem directed to "quiz" her unreasonably in respect to other candidates. I mean do you really think they'll ask Biden to name several supreme court cases? What's next, a geography quiz? Asking how much a gallon of milk is?
 
Xericx said:
From the ones I've seen, they seem directed to "quiz" her unreasonably in respect to other candidates. I mean do you really think they'll ask Biden to name several supreme court cases? What's next, a geography quiz? Asking how much a gallon of milk is?
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Did you see her answer to what newspapers she read or how being next door to Alaska gives her foriegn policy experience? Couric even said I'm going to give you one more chance to explain that statement that everyone is calling BS on.

Is that unreasonable?
 
it's_GO_time said:
Did you see her answer to what newspapers she read or how being next door to Alaska gives her foriegn policy experience? Couric even said I'm going to give you one more chance to explain that statement that everyone is calling BS on.

Is that unreasonable?
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Would they ask Biden what Newspapers he reads?

I don't think so, the way the questions are phrased are in a way as to insult the person answering the question.
 
Xericx said:
Would they ask Biden what Newspapers he reads?

I don't think so, the way the questions are phrased are in a way as to insult the person answering the question.
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The Palin template, as constructed by the liberal media, is basically as follows: Prove that your are not stupid, because we all know you are.

It's a losing battle. McCain's campaign should have never allowed her access to any of these in the Obama camp reporters, and I find it funny that CBS had to edit answers, because the taped interviewed does not jibe completely with the actual transcript.

At this point, McCain should just say that the Wall Street Journal, NY Post, FoxNews, and Rush Limbaugh can have access to him, and the ABC/NYT/Katie Couric should stick to lobbing softballs at their own candidate. At least that way, no one will be questioned thoroughly. :)
 
Xericx said:
Would they ask Biden what Newspapers he reads?

I don't think so, the way the questions are phrased are in a way as to insult the person answering the question.
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I suppose if he came from a small state and voters were curious about his background and knowledge about national affairs. I can tell you that would be one of teh easiest questions Biden would have to answer.

Do you think it is fair to challenge her on the bridge to nowhere and her foreign policy experience based on the fact she raised these topics in the speech? Do you think it is fair to question a VP canidate what they think about a 700 billion bailout plan?

Personally I think the interviewing media walks on eggshells around her to avoid allegations of sexism . . . of course i've only caught the Gibson interivew and parts of the Couric interivew. And the McCain campaign is daring CBS to run the 4th part of the Palin interview in it's entirety . . . so I don't have a real clear picture of how the media has been handling her, but I don't see anyone picking on her any more than any other canidate . . . of course I've never heard another canidate saying "I'll get back to you on that one"
 
PapaG said:
The Palin template, as constructed by the liberal media, is basically as follows: Prove that your are not stupid, because we all know you are.

It's a losing battle. McCain's campaign should have never allowed her access to any of these in the Obama camp reporters, and I find it funny that CBS had to edit answers, because the taped interviewed does not jibe completely with the actual transcript.

At this point, McCain should just say that the Wall Street Journal, NY Post, FoxNews, and Rush Limbaugh can have access to him, and the ABC/NYT/Katie Couric should stick to lobbing softballs at their own candidate. At least that way, no one will be questioned thoroughly. :)
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McCain's campaign chose the reporters that Palin talked to. They have no one to blame but themselves if they don't like the interviews.

barfo
 
PapaG said:
Ifill will either be criticized by the GOP for being unfair to Palin due to an obvious conflict of interest, or she will be criticized by Dems for being unfair to Biden in an effort to seem "objective".

The easy answer is for her to recuse herself and let Jim Lehrer, who did a great job on Friday night, moderate the debate.
Click to expand...

Agreed, although I would prefer that it not be someone that is close with Ms. Ifill.
 
Xericx said:
From the ones I've seen, they seem directed to "quiz" her unreasonably in respect to other candidates. I mean do you really think they'll ask Biden to name several supreme court cases? What's next, a geography quiz? Asking how much a gallon of milk is?
Click to expand...

From what I've read, she's taken the most heat for her response to the question about her foreign policy experience and her response to the question about the $700 billion bailout.

Those don't seem like unreasonable questions to me, given that the economy and our national security are frequently 1 and 2 on the list of the most important issues to Americans.

-Pop
 
barfo said:
McCain's campaign chose the reporters that Palin talked to. They have no one to blame but themselves if they don't like the interviews.

barfo
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I agree. Thanks for repeating my agreement on this matter.
 
What I don't get is why the Obama campaign doesn't ask for a replacement to avoid the appearance of impropriety. It would be smart politics. Chances are Joe Biden is going to do really well tomorrow night, so why give the GOP a reason to complain?
 
maxiep said:
What I don't get is why the Obama campaign doesn't ask for a replacement to avoid the appearance of impropriety. It would be smart politics. Chances are Joe Biden is going to do really well tomorrow night, so why give the GOP a reason to complain?
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It's possible that neither side actually views this as a problem. Is there any indication that this is seen as a problem more widely than this forum?
 
PapaG said:
The Palin template, as constructed by the liberal media, is basically as follows: Prove that your are not stupid, because we all know you are.

It's a losing battle. McCain's campaign should have never allowed her access to any of these in the Obama camp reporters, and I find it funny that CBS had to edit answers, because the taped interviewed does not jibe completely with the actual transcript.

At this point, McCain should just say that the Wall Street Journal, NY Post, FoxNews, and Rush Limbaugh can have access to him, and the ABC/NYT/Katie Couric should stick to lobbing softballs at their own candidate. At least that way, no one will be questioned thoroughly. :)
Click to expand...

Yah, like that liberal media member George Will...
 
Minstrel said:
It's possible that neither side actually views this as a problem. Is there any indication that this is seen as a problem more widely than this forum?
Click to expand...

It's a story tonight on CNN, MSNBC and FOX. I haven't yet watched the networks or PBS, but the story is getting traction. My opinion is that moderators should endeavor to be like Adam Smith's Invisible Hand: You don't even notice the moderator, but they guide the debate to the optimal point. Ms. Ifill has become part of the story, and therefore is a needless distraction.

However, I don't think it really matters. This election is over.
 
My take is that the book is being mis-represented as being pro-Obama. It's not from everything I've seen.

There's been a real conflict in the black community between generations - the older group that lived through the civil rights movement of the '60s, and the young generation that didn't. The issues are deep: the younger generation uses the "N" word as a term of endearment, while the older generation thinks the word should be banned or use it an outright insult. The older generation plays the victim card and race card constantly, while the younger generation seems above race.

Her book is about this struggle, and Obama does represent a real change for the community. It's fair, and it doesn't mean she's rooting for him to win, though she probably is.
 
Xericx said:
Its not spin, its a legitimate gripe. Moderators should be neutral in their approach to debates. This moderator has financial gain to be had by having Obama win, therefore is not appropriate to have be a moderator.
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You're confused.

It's a book, nothing more.

Her entire career will be much more financially affected by how the debate is remembered, and her control of it, than who wins the Presidency.

And whether moderated by her, or by a mental patient with hand puppets, Palin's empty head will still appear empty each and every time she speaks.

Astounding that the Repugnants have not dumped her yet to minimize the damage before it's too late.
 
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