Pre-draft Sports-Two grudge match: Lamb v Rivers

[PtldPlatypus]

This is the first in a series of several threads I'm planning on starting regarding specific players that are perceived as similar.

Let's keep this simple--between Jeremy Lamb and Austin Rivers:

• Which one has a higher ceiling (more potential, upside, etc.)?
• Which one has a higher likelihood of reaching their perceived ceiling?
• What specifically about each/either one do you not like?
• If they are the 2 BPA at 11, which would you take?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I was able to see them both play several games and I think Rivers is fool's gold. He plays with confidence, but aside from one big shot against NC, he has failed to impress me.

I'd take lamb between the two of them.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Lamb
Lamb
Lamb = Nothing. Rivers = Too small, not a good enough athlete
Lamb

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Lamb
Lamb
Lamb = Nothing. Rivers = Too small, not a good enough athlete
Lamb

So what you're saying is...you like Lamb?

 

[Mediocre Man]

So what you're saying is...you like Lamb?

I think he will be the best SG taken in the lottery.

 

[illmatic99]

I like both, but prefer Rivers. His ability to get to the basket and great handle are things that we sorely lack. And the poise with which he plays reminds me of Brandon.

 

[Blaze01]

First, I would be happy with either (or even Bradley Beal)...all 3 would be a significant upgrade IMO over what we currently have.

What I like about Lamb....His athleticism...his size....his wingspan...his ability to score

What I like about Rivers...his moxy....his ability to breakdown his defender and get into the paint...his willingness to be the go-to guy (and deliver)...

So, I have been advocating drafting Rivers for awhile b\c I think his game along with his desire to be that go-to guy are going to translate to the NBA....but one thing brings me to pause a moment....I think he is going to be an isolation player in the NBA....much like he was at Duke, and much like Roy was in POR...probably not as good as Roy, but who knows...but the question I have to everyone is, do you want to go back to that type of offense? I do not...I don't think it is ultimately conducive to winning an NBA title which is what this is all about...I don't think having a team stand around and watching one player go ISO all the time is a path to the NBA championship.

Of course a lot of this will be dependent on the coach POR eventually hires, and if they draft Rivers, his willingess and ability to play within a system...and he woun't have to do it all the time, and certainly you do want players who when you do need a bucket, you can give the ball too and llet then create for themselves or other players.....

I think both will be good NBA players....I am intrigued by the possible length POR will have with a Lamb, Batum, Aldridge trio...add Henson\P.Jones to that mix and a FA PG, and you might have something there...a tough team to match up with....Rivers though IMO likely will end up the better scorer\ISO player of the two....

So bottom line...I would be happy with either...but in the thread of rating prospects I recently listed them as Beal...Lamb...Rivers, all very closely grouped, but I would take Lamb...the guy is just a freak athletically and has good measureables, those generally translate pretty well....

 

[Pinwheel1]

First, I would be happy with either (or even Bradley Beal)...all 3 would be a significant upgrade IMO over what we currently have.

What I like about Lamb....His athleticism...his size....his wingspan...his ability to score

What I like about Rivers...his moxy....his ability to breakdown his defender and get into the paint...his willingness to be the go-to guy (and deliver)...

So, I have been advocating drafting Rivers for awhile b\c I think his game along with his desire to be that go-to guy are going to translate to the NBA....but one thing brings me to pause a moment....I think he is going to be an isolation player in the NBA....much like he was at Duke, and much like Roy was in POR...probably not as good as Roy, but who knows...but the question I have to everyone is, do you want to go back to that type of offense? I do not...I don't think it is ultimately conducive to winning an NBA title which is what this is all about...I don't think having a team stand around and watching one player go ISO all the time is a path to the NBA championship.

Of course a lot of this will be dependent on the coach POR eventually hires, and if they draft Rivers, his willingess and ability to play within a system...and he woun't have to do it all the time, and certainly you do want players who when you do need a bucket, you can give the ball too and llet then create for themselves or other players.....

I think both will be good NBA players....I am intrigued by the possible length POR will have with a Lamb, Batum, Aldridge trio...add Henson\P.Jones to that mix and a FA PG, and you might have something there...a tough team to match up with....Rivers though IMO likely will end up the better scorer\ISO player of the two....

So bottom line...I would be happy with either...but in the thread of rating prospects I recently listed them as Beal...Lamb...Rivers, all very closely grouped, but I would take Lamb...the guy is just a freak athletically and has good measureables, those generally translate pretty well....

This is a pretty good assesment. I woudl be happy with either. Lamb appears to be the safer choice, at least for the first 43 minutes of the game. To me it does not necessarily depend on the offense we run because in the last 2-5 minutes of close games it comes down to someone who can score from a set play. Look at the end of the Laker/OKC game this weekend OKC was fine when Westbrook drove to the basket, but not so good with Durant milking the clock down each time only to take a fade away 3 pointer at the buzzer. You have to take it to the basket in those situations.

So I guess the choice depends on who you surround the SG with? If we already had a PG or SF who could create his own shot then I would say Lamb is definitely the choice. But we don't and they are hard to come by.

But of course since rosters are very fluid through the years you can't just pick someone based on who we have now. Things change quickly as we all painfully know.

Lamb is the safer choice but Rivers has a higher ceiling. Tough call but I guess I would go with the safe bet. The personal interviews will be an important factor in this as well.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Lamb. As others above mentioned Rivers is undersized for a two and doesn't have a point guard bone in his body. My guess is that his ceiling will be some kind of off-the-bench spark-plug scorer in the mold of Jason Terry but without the dead eye shooting.

To borrow a metaphor: Rivers is all hat and no cattle.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I would be UNhappy with both. Rivers because he's too small and too slow and can't play PG. If he could shoot A LOT better he might be Stephen Curry. If he was more athletic, he might be Monta Ellis. As it is, he's neither. Give him a few years bouncing around the NBA and some team might turn him into Jason Terry.
Lamb just seems to be a loser. Name a team with him on (including the USA team he was on) that has performed up to expectations. We don't need another slightly sulky gunner. We should be focusing on defense, not on one-on-one scorers.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I would be UNhappy with both. Rivers because he's too small and too slow and can't play PG. If he could shoot A LOT better he might be Stephen Curry. If he was more athletic, he might be Monta Ellis. As it is, he's neither. Give him a few years bouncing around the NBA and some team might turn him into Jason Terry.
Lamb just seems to be a loser. Name a team with him on (including the USA team he was on) that has performed up to expectations. We don't need another slightly sulky gunner. We should be focusing on defense, not on one-on-one scorers.

How about last years UConn National championship team?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

How about last years UConn National championship team?

Okay, that one I'll give you. But that just seems to show that Lamb isn't even as good as Kemba Walker.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Okay, that one I'll give you. But that just seems to show that Lamb isn't even as good as Kemba Walker.

Lamb had a good freshman year because he had a good PG. This year he had chuckers, and suffered from it. That's my opinion anyway

 

[RR7]

Lamb had a good freshman year because he had a good PG. This year he had chuckers, and suffered from it. That's my opinion anyway

??? His freshman year, he had Walker on his team putting up 18 shots a game. Lamb was the next closest with 9.1. This year they had 4 guys over 8 shots a game, with him leading the team at 13.4. Last year he had chuckers, well, chucker. This year not so much.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Jeremy Lamb displays the unnerving intensity that characterizes his drive to be great:

 

[Mediocre Man]

??? His freshman year, he had Walker on his team putting up 18 shots a game. Lamb was the next closest with 9.1. This year they had 4 guys over 8 shots a game, with him leading the team at 13.4. Last year he had chuckers, well, chucker. This year not so much.

The stats are there to prove your point, but I watched a lot of his games, and his PG's never got him the ball.

http://www.nbadraft.net/jeremy-lamb-silence-critics

 

[HailBlazers]

Jeremy Lamb displays the unnerving intensity that characterizes his drive to be great:

Yea, and it's always great to judge a book by it's cover.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Well, since we're talking about a person and not a book. Body language does in fact tell you a lot about somebody. Lamb's demeanor in that picture is pretty indicative of his style of play which I would generously call "laid back."

 

[RR7]

Well, since we're talking about a person and not a book. Body language does in fact tell you a lot about somebody. Lamb's demeanor in that picture is pretty indicative of his style of play which I would generously call "laid back."

His look there is more stoned.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Well, since we're talking about a person and not a book. Body language does in fact tell you a lot about somebody. Lamb's demeanor in that picture is pretty indicative of his style of play which I would generously call "laid back."

I don't know? I mean you could find a picture of just about anyone that looked spent

 

[HailBlazers]

For example..

 

[Mediocre Man]

For example..

View attachment 2815

Exactly. Durant, what a slacker

 

[RoyToy]

Roy looked like he was laid back and was even called lazy by a couple coaches (I believe Romar), but then they realized that was just his game.

I think it worked out OK for him.

 

[RoyToy]

As far as Lamb

His role greatly increased in his sophomore season. Not only was he asked to carry the team essentially, but he averaged 37min a game doing so. Hard not to wear out doing that.

His efficiency was still off the charts, though. Shot 60% on 2pt shots.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I don't know? I mean you could find a picture of just about anyone that looked spent

I agree, but my point is that in Lamb's case he does have a rep for being kind of "disengaged." No biggie, I'd still draft him at 11 if he's still on the board; he's a talent.

 

[BBert]

Jeremy Lamb displays the unnerving intensity that characterizes his drive to be great:

LOL

 

[MickZagger]

Lamb crumbles when he gets defensive pressure. I'm just not a fan.

 

[jlprk]

In that picture, I just see someone uncomfortable wearing contact lenses.

 

[Rhal]

Beal and Williams have eerily similar college careers.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Elliot-Williams-5153/stats/
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Bradley-Beal-5759/stats/
Both good defenders and both great athletes and a little undersized for there NBA positions. Beal doesn't have any big holes in his game like Elliot did coming out and of course didn't need MF surgery off the bat. But the fact they are both very similar sours me on Beal a bit even with Williams injury history. I'd rather trade away our pick instead of drafting him or take a different player. We won't be in the running for him anyhow.