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jam, it is not like Nash is still on freaking blue jackets. He may not be surrounded by the great elite depth but he still has stepans, richards, supposedly the best goalie in the league and this great young defensive core.
 
You have to put better players around your stars, and that is where Sather gets an F. Yeah, he can bring in high priced free agents, but when you don't put anybody around them it equals bad to mediocre teams.
 
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How many third period goals did nash scored last year? Now he sucks. ..

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All I will say is this jam. If you are happy with what we are getting from Nash in the playoffs, and this season so far, and you feel it is all because he has no one around him, fair enough. I couldn't disagree more, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I feel he needs to be MUCH better than what we have since since the playoffs started. You feel he is fine it's simply the fact that he has no one around him (I guess Stepan, Kreider, Richards all stink). We agree to disagree jam. All good.
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
How many third period goals did nash scored last year? Now he sucks. ..

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He scored a bunch of 3rd period goals last season. And he had a very strong regular season. No doubt about it. And since the playoffs started last season he has been virtually invisible. That's reality.

Again, if you guys feel like what he has done since the playoffs is good enough, that is cool. I happen to think we need a ton more from our stud 7.8 mill cap hit star. We can agree to disagree on this. Nash has not played well since the playoffs started outside of a game here or there. That's the way I see it.
 
chuckd3534 said:
He scored a bunch of 3rd period goals last season. And he had a very strong regular season. No doubt about it. And since the playoffs started last season he has been virtually invisible. That's reality.

Again, if you guys feel like what he has done since the playoffs is good enough, that is cool. I happen to think we need a ton more from our stud 7.8 mill cap hit star. We can agree to disagree on this. Nash has not played well since the playoffs started outside of a game here or there. That's the way I see it.
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You can say that about every ranger right now not just nash. Even hank..I guess he is soft too

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And BTW...that doesn't mean he won't get better. Doesn't mean he is awful. Doesn't mean we never should have traded for him. Doesn't mean his career in NY is a failure. Doesn't mean we should trade him. Simply means he needs to get his act together and play like the 7.8 mill stud that he is supposed to be. That simple.
 
Have no fear, AVs summer reshaping will soon be here. :)
 
chuckd3534 said:
We agree to disagree jam. Great players who are all world and are supposed to be studs do a LOT more than what Nash is doing. I guess Tavares has a bunch of studs? Crosby have a loaded line when 1/2 the Pens are hurt? Come on man. You want to make excuses for Nash being invisible since the playoffs last season, good for you dude. I will not. We need more. That simple.
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Chuck I don't want to give Nash a pass, but it's hard to go after one player when they all stink. It has to be hard for a goal scorer, when he is the only true goal scorer on the team ... He's a marked man. We went through the same thing with Gaborik. Instead of going after more offense, I'd like to see them bring in some legitimate defenders, with size, stregth and who can shoot. Believe me, your goal scorers will benefit from something like that.
 
BigDaddyAl1973 said:
You can say that about every ranger right now not just nash. Even hank..I guess he is soft too

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100% put Hank in there also. He has been terrible recently. Just the way it is. We need way more than what he has given us this season. Again just reality. But it is very difficult to really get on Hank when he has carried us for 7 seasons now. He gets the huge benefit of the doubt, and the right to have one down season after all he has done carrying us for years.

I get your feathers are ruffled AT because of your Torts man love, but I am enjoying this back and forth with you. It is making me laugh.
 
jamsim67 said:
Chuck I don't want to give Nash a pass, but it's hard to go after one player when they all stink. It has to be hard for a goal scorer, when he is the only true goal scorer on the team ... He's a marked man. We went through the same thing with Gaborik. Instead of going after more offense, I'd like to see them bring in some legitimate defenders, with size, stregth and who can shoot. Believe me, your goal scorers will benefit from something like that.
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100% agree, they pretty much all stink...no doubt about it. But when you are the guy. The 7.8 mill stud. The star...guess what...you have to take responsibility for your crappy play more than a Pouliot or Brassard. That's just the way it is.

And since the playoffs Nash has done almost nothing. He needs to step it up. That simple to me.
 
My feathers aren't ruffled..I'm even keel about all of this. All year last year it was all we needed wad a different coach. Not so easy. Its all on the players always had been.

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chuckd3534 said:
All I will say is this jam. If you are happy with what we are getting from Nash in the playoffs, and this season so far, and you feel it is all because he has no one around him, fair enough. I couldn't disagree more, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I feel he needs to be MUCH better than what we have since since the playoffs started. You feel he is fine it's simply the fact that he has no one around him (I guess Stepan, Kreider, Richards all stink). We agree to disagree jam. All good.
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I'm sure he feels he needs to be better as well, but it's hard to be better when you aren't given room to skate because the opposing team does not respect anybody else on the ice (and for good reason).
 
Unless things start changing quickly we could end up with the 3rd to 5th pick in the draft
 
But Al, you simply are not giving AV a chance and you know it. He is coaching a team made up of players that mesh way better with a Torts style than an AV style. That's the way it is right now.

I was very fair to Torts. I didn't like all the ripping of him. He took us where no other coach has under useless Sather, but it was time IMO.

And even if you didn't feel it was time, we are where we are now. So enough with the Torts stuff. Give AV a chance with a group of players that are better suited for the way he wants his teams to play. He has no shot at that this season.

Like I said, if we go through the miny re-build this summer, and next season we are where we are right now, I will be right on board with you. For now you have to be fair Al, and clearly you are not being fair and you know it.

This team would be better with Torts coaching it, I don't doubt that, but that's because it is made in a Torts style. Let's see what AV can do when the team is made more in his style. Then I will judge AV. Not in a season where we did NOTHING this summer and left AV with a team much more suited to play for the prior coach.
 
chuckd3534 said:
100% agree, they pretty much all stink...no doubt about it. But when you are the guy. The 7.8 mill stud. The star...guess what...you have to take responsibility for your crappy play more than a Pouliot or Brassard. That's just the way it is.

And since the playoffs Nash has done almost nothing. He needs to step it up. That simple to me.
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What would make Nash more effective, is if he found a way to get his linemates more involved offensively. But that's a problem with this team, since nobody knows how to make their way to the front of the net. And when they happen to get to the front of the net, it's rare that they can stay there for to long.
 
jamsim67 said:
I'm sure he feels he needs to be better as well, but it's hard to be better when you aren't given room to skate because the opposing team does not respect anybody else on the ice (and for good reason).
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A lot of stud, star, huge cap hit players have to deal with that jam, and they do a lot more than Nash has done since the playoffs last season. We just won't agree on this. Rick Nash is not the only star in the NHL that is targeted by the other teams D and has to do a lot of stuff on his own. He needs to be much better. That is very clear to me.
 
jamsim67 said:
What would make Nash more effective, is if he found a way to get his linemates more involved offensively. But that's a problem with this team, since nobody knows how to make their way to the front of the net. And when they happen to get to the front of the net, it's rare that they can stay there for to long.
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Rick Nash is not the only stud star player that has at best mediocore talent around him...he just isn't. And it isn't like we have a bunch of scrubs. He has played a lot with Kreider and Stepan, and outside of the Canuck game I didn't see much from him.

Anyway, we agree to disagree. I think he needs to be much better. You think it is more due to his surrounding cast. We agree to disagree. All good.
 
chuckd3534 said:
A lot of stud, star, huge cap hit players have to deal with that jam, and they do a lot more than Nash has done since the playoffs last season. We just won't agree on this. Rick Nash is not the only star in the NHL that is targeted by the other teams D and has to do a lot of stuff on his own. He needs to be much better. That is very clear to me.
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And a lot of stud, star, huge cap hit players do deal with it, but most of them have better supporting casts around them. One goal scorer is not going to get it done on any team.
 
Not sure about your last line. Now Nash is the only goal scorer on the team. I guess OV had a bunch of studs. Tavares has a bunch of studs. Crosby has a bunch of studs when 1/2 his team is suspended or hurt. You are overpaying that card IMO.

At any rate, Rick Nash is not near our biggest issue, we can all agree on that. I simply put think he needs to be much better than his pretty much invisible play since the playoffs started last season. Even with that said we have many much bigger issues than Rich Nash doing nothing, outside of a few games, for a long time now. He is clearly not the main reason, or even in the top 5 reasons, why we are maybe the worst team in the NHL at the moment,
 
Nash has 6 goals in 19 games this season (about a 25 goal pace over 82 games).
Nash had 1 goal in 12 playoff games last season.

In his last 31 games he has 7 goals. I'm sorry we need a lot more than that from him. He is not the biggest issue we have. He is not right at the top of the list of biggest issues we have. But simply put he has to do more. And guess what...I fully expect he will, but he has to do it.
 
At any rate, Rick Nash is not near our biggest issue.

yes he is, chuck. He is one of the main reasons why they suck right now. You just listed why above.
 
I think we have bigger issues than Nash, we are maybe the worst team in the NHL at the moment, but I hear you Step. We do need more...no doubt there.
 
We can complain all we want about the grinders and not enough scorers. At the end of the day, you have to have your biggest stars, studs whatever you wanna call them to perform. Lets face it, hank and nash, cally, steps have not performed this season plus you add girardi being an idiot and all other d-men sucking except for mcd and maybe stralman then you have a disaster on your hands.
 
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