Reasons we lost, what we could of done to get the job done and the future

[MrSleeps]

Its really simple guys, one or two bounces and we win the cup but theres a reason we are here, and first mistake we did was trade gabby away and traded for nash, lets face it guys its ok to admit it, gabby was the scape goat, he was run out of town for no reason and if he was on our team with his 14 goals to nashs 2 we are raising the cup.... gabby would flurish in av's system and torts fucked this guy up for us. F U TORTS.

Our best players didn't play better then there best players, our top guys nash, stepan, giradi didnt play up to par, our top scores were hagelin, and zucc.. krieder did ok and is great on the PP but our our 2 mil dollar players were our best players, imagine if our stars stepped up., its promising for future but it is what it is.....

we are too small, we get bullied, and it shows when the kings push our guys around and score, eat some wheaties,

our special teams is so much better man, thank god..... our PP is light years better then last year and our PK somehow has a lot of SHG.

Moore is good keep him here no way why he has been on 7 nhl teams jesus

get a D that can get a shot on net and score, somebody like mathew shneider from back in the day would be amazing.

a center please, a real center, one who wins faceoffs and can set him his teamates, stepan is a 2nd or third line center.....

thats my rant

 

[Messiah717]

Nothing unreasonable in anything you said. The being said you have to consider where this team was before the New Year and where they ended up.

 

[Ranger71]

It was a great year based on the roster they had, and with the buyout and a few additions there's no reason they cant be right there with Boston in the East. AV knows what's still missing. We dont have any real high end prospects but Miller, Lindberg and maybe Haggerty/Fast could push for a spot. Who knows with McIlrath i'm not holding my breath.

 

[Messiah717]

It's tough because after you have seen them get there you realize what a long road it is. Getting back isn't easy for anyone.

 

[Ranger71]

I guess you could say they caught a break not getting Boston but i had them losing to Mtl.

 

[MrSleeps]

yes its true, we got some breaks to get here, but it happens every year, our road was easier then others, we made the best of our opportunities, but it doesn't mean we can't do it again, boston is on the decline, chara is getting older, they made a mistake by trading seguin away.... im not as worried as i once was about them, we should be in the top 3 of the east next year, im not sure how pitts going to look with a new coach and a decent goalie, if pitt gets somebody like ryan miller........ we are going to have our hands full... i mean there are good coaches out there that can be put in that situation and make that team scary....

so as we could of won game 1 and 2 against the kings and be up 3-2 it didn't work out for us... the kings are a great team lets not take anything away from them.... they had to go through hell to win the cup and getting 40+ shots every game is telling.... but thats just going to make our team better and more confident, we can hang with them and with a couple more pieces we can contend for a cup. it was a hell of a ride and nothing to be ashamed of

 

[strudwickisthebest]

i think they'll atleast be in the conference finals next year. Gained a ton of experience

 

[chuckd3534]

Agree with a lot, don't agree with some.

Our PP was awful against the Kings, 2-22. 7:30 in OT PP time and nothing. Our PP was awful all playoffs really outside of 3 or 4 games.

It may have come down to a bounce here or a break there, but you earn those bounces and breaks, they did and we didn't. That's the way it is.

At C, we will be okay. Richards will be an ex-Ranger within 10 days or less. We'll add someone to take his spot.

Nash is going to be an issue with his 5 goals in 41 playoff games. Not much we can do with him. At least we got 3 solid players for Gabby.

On D we MUST add a top 4 big physical dman...MUST. McDonagh will be a Norris finalist next season IMO. 17 points in 25 playoff games, and that is after his awful start. He will score 50 + points next season, no doubt in my mind.

Upfront we could use a big body at C and/or wing. We need another guy with size to go with Kreider and Nash (who is big but plays small).

Questions, what do we do with Stralman (I say gone), Brassard (back unless he gets a huge offer), MZA (back with a raise as a RFA), Kreider (back with a raise as a RFA), and Boyle (I say back around 2 mill per for 2 years).

Lastly, yeah we will be good next season, I think we all believed AV needed a year to get his team in place, so we were ahead of the curve this season. BUT the issue is how difficult it is to make this run back to back. It will be 6 years since a team went back to back to the SCF. It is not easy. Team is drained by this. Plus the East is getting better IMO. Going to be really difficult to make this run again next season.

 

[jamsim67]

If the Rangers are going to make another run next year, then they will have to get bigger and much more physical. Can't go through the playoffs taking more punishment than you are able to dish out. They lost to the Kings because they couldn't match them physicality wise. Yeah I know, with some breaks they could be up 3-2, or they could be celebrating right now. But you create, and finish a certain amount of your breaks, and we saw how that went. The Kings are BIG, and were able to go to the goal and as the game wore on, it became tougher for the Rangers to deny them. They didn't score pretty goals, they scored Stanley Cup Champion goals. Going to the net, and fighting for rebounds. For this team (any team really), getting to the finals is a great accomplishment. They played with heart, emotion and left it all on the ice. I look for them to get bigger, and better next season.

As for Gaborik, he went to a great situation, and in my opinion it was a situation he greatly deserved. He's in a system where he's not the only goal scorer, and the Kings can protect him from an opposition who decides to try and punish him for 60 minutes. IMO I think he would benefit under AV's system, but I seriously doubt he would have put up 14 playoff goals. If they switched teams, with Gaborik in New York and Nash in L.A. Nash would be the one benefiting. The Rangers need to get bigger, and stronger where they look to HIT, instead of looking to just bump.

 

[Malco]

How would Nash benefit, would him being on the Kings make the opposing teams net a lot wider?

 

[Messiah717]

Nash is not willing to play like Gaborik so I don't see how he would benefit.

 

[jamsim67]

For one thing it would make it a lot easier for him to go to the net, and get shots off of rebounds. Which is pretty much the way the Kings score. Everybody hits (hard), and they all go to the net, screening the goalie and creating trouble for opposing defenses.

 

[sorr]

Gaborik did well in LA because 1) he had frickin Kopitar as his center and 2) he wasn't depended upon as the #1 guy on that team. Hell, he's probably barely their 5th best player. (Behind Kopitar, Doughty, Quick, and maybe Carter.)

We lost because the team is too inconsistent on offense in terms of finishing and because our defensemen played like absolute horseshit in the finals. And even with that, we were pretty damn close.

I'm really hoping Kreider lives up to his potential and finds a way to be that consistent goal scorer we desperately need. A 30 goal season out of him next year would be nice.

 

[panzerporter]

AV showed what an overrated chump Torts was, Torts nonsense set the Rangers back a few years with player development and led to his quick dismissal in Vancouver. The fact that AV was able to get the team to buy into his system which was a full 180 from Torts' system is also testament to his coaching ability. I did have a problem with some of his personnel decisions with prospects but hope with a full offseason guys like Miller & McIlrath will work their way into the lineup. You can't knock a guy who did what no other coach had done for the Rangers in 20 years by taking them to the Cup.

I always liked Gabby, the guy played hurt when he could have easily sat in the press box and he kept his mouth shut when Torts did his finger pointing. Good for him getting his name on the Cup.

Defensively beyond McD & Girardi there are a lot of questions. Staal played like garbage after the Philly series as he enters the last year of his contract, Stralman turned down a more than generous $3 mil/year offer which I can't imagine Glen would sweeten, Klein is mediocre at best but can you justify paying him $2.9 per year for steady play when McIlrath or Allen are cheaper alternatives? J. Moore and Falk are also RFA's who are younger, can be resigned for less and seem to have more upside than Klein. Diaz is an UFA who I can't see them resigning if AV was so reluctant to give him postseason ice time.

I agree that Richards is soon to be an ex-Ranger, even Glen can't be that dumb. Glen has a lot of work to do this offseason, might have to put the fishing boat in dry dock or better yet retain the title of President and turn the GM responsibilities over to new blood. This should be an interesting summer.

 

[chuckd3534]

It will be an interesting summer for sure.

UFA's of note: Brassard, Pouliot, Boyle, D. Moore, Stralman
RFA's of note: Kreider, Zucc, J. Moore

I would expect all the RFA's will be back with raises. What about the UFA's though that is the question.

My guess is Brass back if he stays reasonable. Maybe a low 4 mill or so cap hit per season.
Pouliot I am not sure. I want to say yes, but he may get too much money. If we can get him in the low 2's yes. If he wants 3's I say no.
Boyle and Moore I would try and bring back. Moore in the 1's somewhere. Boyle around 2 or so.
Stralman I think will be gone, and hopefully replaced with a bigger more physical guy to complete the top 4.
And Richards is 10000000000% gone within 10 days or so. No doubt about it.

We'll see, but interesting for sure.

 

[mrmel29]

It will be an interesting summer for sure.

UFA's of note: Brassard, Pouliot, Boyle, D. Moore, Stralman
RFA's of note: Kreider, Zucc, J. Moore

I would expect all the RFA's will be back with raises. What about the UFA's though that is the question.

My guess is Brass back if he stays reasonable. Maybe a low 4 mill or so cap hit per season.
Pouliot I am not sure. I want to say yes, but he may get too much money. If we can get him in the low 2's yes. If he wants 3's I say no.
Boyle and Moore I would try and bring back. Moore in the 1's somewhere. Boyle around 2 or so.
Stralman I think will be gone, and hopefully replaced with a bigger more physical guy to complete the top 4.
And Richards is 10000000000% gone within 10 days or so. No doubt about it.

We'll see, but interesting for sure.

Chuck, agree on all rfa's. I think only question is if sather tries to save a little future money and attempts to tie up kreids for more than the usual 2 year bridge ala mcdonagh. Agree strahlman can be replaced both defensively and offensively, I hope brass and poulliot will both be back but wouldn't be shocked if one isn't. I hope they can resign moore cheap, Boyle will prob price himself out for what he does and I hope dorsett is gone. Team needs to incorporate miller on this team next year and hopefully fasth which could make a good 4th line with moore centering them. I really hope that AV follows bill parcells philosophy he had with dave meggett that he was playing him until he couldn't stand it anymore with Mcilreith next season. We need the kids size and toughness and to start protecting some of our stars like nash and stepan and mcdonagh from getting Run. to me klein and moore can both be easily replaced and should be for young tough d-men like big mac and allen. Like you I'd like to see another top4 nasty d-man brought in via trade or free agency but not as high on orpik as he is another concussion sufferer. However sather does it either needs to sign stasny or my preference over that would be to trade for kessler. We are very close.

 

[Ranger71]

Klein is a good value for what he is, a solid defensive guy. They should let Falk go he sucks and bring back Diaz as the 6/7.

 

[MrSleeps]

chuck if you take out that 0-40 pp droubt we go 13 for 61 roughly 21 percent, it was light years better then years past, it wasn't top tier like LA but it has poetential, krieder in front, mcd in the back take richards POS out, idk we scored some nice goals on the PP this post season and had some potential, of course every PP isnt going to go as planned i can easily take LA and point out some terrible PPs they had, im happy with what they have done so far,

i dont think miller has a spot here, i really don't, i really don't want him on the 4th line i think our 4th line had chemistry, i would use him as trade bait, he just isn't physical enough or big enough. isn't that what are are trying to be bigger stronger faster?

brassard zuc and pouliut need to stay guys, thats our best line...... why would we break them up

 

[papadoc080]

Can someone please explain to me how the non interference call/goal in game 2 that changed the series is an earned bounce or break. Or the Zucc penalty in game 5 that led to the tying goal was earned. I understand refs are human and make bad calls but those 2 calls were an embarrassment to the NHL. They changed the series. The Rangers would be playing Mon night if the NHL didn't desparately want LA to win. And helped LA get there.

 

[Messiah717]

Unfortunately, bad calls are made all the time. Focusing on them though is a losers mentality. The Rangers had plenty of opportunities to overcome those calls.

 

[chuckd3534]

You nailed it Mess, but that's what we are going to do in here. It's okay, like I said it is easier to focus on the questionable calls then to say wow we F'd up as a team.

Again, we forget we still had the lead after the game 2 call. We still had multiple PP's in OT. We still had multiple chances in OT. We have no clue if we win the game even if the call wasn't made (there seems to be this feeling of seeing the future that we win the game for sure if the questioable call never happens).

In game 5 we still had many chances to win. Hit a few posts. Had multiple PP's in OT. Played 2 full periods without scoring a goal after the questionable call. But the call is what cost us the game I guess.

We had more PP's than them in every game outside of game 1. We certainly got our fair share of calls. Maybe the difference was when the Kings got a call in their favor, they actually scored. When we got a call in our favor we didn't score. We were a terrible 2-22 on the PP in the Kings series. You want to know why we lost in 5 games, how about we point at that. 7:30 of PP time combined in the OT's in games 2 & 5. Let's look at the PP fellas. How about we score one in either OT and we are playing tomorrow night.

I happen to think the PP was pretty awful in the playoffs. You mention the 0-40 as the reason why Sleeps, well I go the other way. Outside of game 1 Philly, and two games against Pitt I think the PP was terrible and killed us. Again 2-22 against the Kings. If we score a PP goal in OT games 2 and/or 5 we have a way different series. So that is where my focus is, not on two questionable calls that still left us in the lead in game 2, and with many chances and a LONG time to play in games 2 & 5. And neither time did the questionable call put us behind in the game.

It's all good though, people have their own opinions and views on things, that is what makes this country great I think. People disagree, and that's what gets good healthy debate going, so I like that. No issues there.

 

[papadoc080]

Mess, why is it a loser mentality to stat the facts. LA won. I'm ok with that. They are a good team. But the 2 calls I mentioned were so blatantly bad, you can't think any thing other than the fix was in. If you or anyone else don't think that games and/or series are not sometimes fixed, you are very nieve Now I don't have proof that this was the case but when even the Broadcast team is screaming about how bad the calls are, you have to start thinking somethings up. LA may very well have won anyway. Im not denying that.

Do you really think 60 and 70 year old men referee for the love of the game. Maybe some do. But there are others that are on the take from the bookies. I know, you think Im crazy about this point. And quite frankly, until 1994 football season, I would have thought I was crazy too. But I had a personal experience with a Book where I put a bet in on a Sunday night game and the tix taker told me do it the other way. When I asked why, he said call him at home the next day. The next day, he told me his Uncle had delivered $500,000 cash in a briefcase to the refs locker room before the game. At the end of the 3rd quarter, I was losing by 23 1/2 points. Detroit scored 24 unanswered points on Minnie and I won by 1/2 a point. There were some terrible calls that helped me in the 4th It was the last game I ever gambled on.

Now I must admit that I didn't think about it until someone one this board pointed out that the refs were changing every game. And why not have the same refs so players know what they can and cant get away with. Maybe it was because the NHL wanted some games to be close and some games to always have a bad call in their back pocket to change the game if needed. Im not saying every game is done like this. And sometimes the team the Books need to get their money back are going to win anyway so the refs don't have to influence the game with a blatantly bad call. But it's there if needed.

So congrats to LA. I wont say they deserved it against us. But they won so congrats. In the 1st year of AV, we had an unbelievable season. And we have great things to look forward to in the next 2 to 4 years. We had a fantastic season that I don't think any of us thought would happen this quickly with AV. So Kudos to the Rangers also.

Edited because telling another poster not to post his or her opinion goes against what a message board really is. You can disagree with ones opinion without putting the poster down. Also it has nothing to do with the title of the thread. Your post was directed to Chuck. truebluefan

 

[chuckd3534]

Papa, I think you should settle down a bit. It is a message board. I know Dis and I are idiots, but there is no reason for that kind of attitude. It is okay if we don't all agree, I actually think it is better. If we had a board where we all agreed it would be pretty boring. I welcome all points of view and respect all points of view. If you notice everytime you call me, or any posters, names I do not come back at you calling you names, not sure I see the point in that. I don't have to act childish and call someone names on a message board because I disagree with them. It's all good buddy. I respect your POV 100%.

I just won't blame two calls for our loss. And I won't think we win for sure if not for those two calls. And I also realize that our PP was awful in the series. And we still had the lead after one call, and were tied after the other call, and in both cases there was a LOT of hockey left to play for us to score and win, so clearly we still could have gotten it done if we handled our business. Agree to disgaree there.

Where we agree 100% is kudos to us. We had a great season. AV did a great job. The next 3 years or so do look bright, and I do believe we are on an upswing. We are maybe a year ahead of the AV curve, so that is awesome and looks good moving forward. I am very proud of this team, as all Ranger fans should be. We agree 100% there for sure papa. Great point by you on that one. Kudos to the team for sure.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

Wow papa bringing in oliver stone to the nhl....sorry I am nieve to think that the nhl wants one team over another and that they place certain refs in position to be patsies. I may complain about a blown call and that leading to a huge swing in a game, but I do not believe for one moment a zebra wants to have a entire city wanting him dead.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[papadoc080]

Look it up Al. It was the Lions vs Vikings in 1994. A Sunday night game. Even happened in the NBA a few years ago. You and I would never know. Its done very hush hush. And its not done very often. But in the case I gave you, the Books had gotten crushed that weekend and had to make their money. $500,000 is nothing to them but its plenty to change the outcome of a game with a few bad calls. So why not hockey too.

 

[panzerporter]

Sorry to disagree Sleeps but to say Miller has no place after only 56 games seems like a very small sample to base your decision. Miller's only 21 and as a 1st rounder deserves the Pouliot treatment from AV: give him a full season to make mistakes he hopefully learns from without having to worry about the threat of a healthy scratch and after a year AV should have a better idea of what he has. As far as size goes only Boyle, Kreider, Pouliot and Nash are bigger than Miller and they're all done growing.

 

[jamsim67]

Can someone please explain to me how the non interference call/goal in game 2 that changed the series is an earned bounce or break. Or the Zucc penalty in game 5 that led to the tying goal was earned. I understand refs are human and make bad calls but those 2 calls were an embarrassment to the NHL. They changed the series. The Rangers would be playing Mon night if the NHL didn't desparately want LA to win. And helped LA get there.

Their is no way I will say that the referees had a good series, but it's been that way since the beginning of competitive sports. The Rangers had there opportunities (way to many), and couldn't take advantage of them. That's why the season is over. They had a real good season, longer than any of us could have imagined, now we look forward to next year when they will get the players to possibly win it all.

 

[MrSleeps]

im not saying miller isn't good, hes a good kid no bad works hard,k good ethic, im saying on this team right now he doesn't have a spot.... who would you rather have him take a spot of, the new center we get? brassard who centers our best line? stepan?? only way i can see him is if we trade stepan then i say yes bring him up. why waste talent and keep him in the farm doing nothing, we can trade him get a good center, if its spezzas, thorton whoever, why not???????? you got to trade good players to get good players, if its stepan that people want to get a center do it too but miller is more appealing to teams, we can always draft that type of player jt miller isn't one of a kind hes a third line center on a team. it is what it is, if you think he is a top 6 foward your not looking deep enough, hes not going to be better then krieder hes not going to be better then brassard.

 

[NYR31]

Can someone please explain to me how the non interference call/goal in game 2 that changed the series is an earned bounce or break. Or the Zucc penalty in game 5 that led to the tying goal was earned. I understand refs are human and make bad calls but those 2 calls were an embarrassment to the NHL. They changed the series. The Rangers would be playing Mon night if the NHL didn't desparately want LA to win. And helped LA get there.

Actually, there is nothing more the NHL wants than Original 6 teams winning Cups. The big teams are what brings the most fans and ratings to the league, which translates into the most revenue opportunity.

 

[NYR31]

In the playoffs we had by far the most PP opportunities. Total PPO's were 100+, well ahead of 2nd place, LA, who had 85. On a per-game basis, we averaged 4.12 PPO per game, with 2nd highest @ 3.85 (ANA). This is from teams that played more than 10gms.

The refs did all they could to help us.