revisiting Kevin Pritchard

[blazedanugz]

once the "golden boy" of the franchise. HOW BAD DID THIS GUY FUCK UP?? no wonder he got fired....

love broy but that crashed and burned
oden..need a i say more
rudy....laughable
sergio...not in the league anymore.
jarrett jack and brandon rush for bayless???? how bad does that trade look now?
babbitt..........................................
no wonder he hasnt gotten another job

one thing he gets a pat on the back for is batum. but thats it

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

traded future all-star and 2nd round in the playoff franchise player Zach Randolph for less than zero.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

This is bullshit hindsight-ism. He traded Telfair for Brandon Roy. He traded Tyrus Thomas for LaMarcus Aldridge. Nuff said. Blame God for Oden's knees, but every GM in the league would've made that pick. Every one.

 

[HailBlazers]

once the "golden boy" of the franchise. HOW BAD DID THIS GUY FUCK UP?? no wonder he got fired....

He actually, literally asked to be fired. Felt so guilty about the strife in the organization he asked PA to fire him. Good GM, but apparently lacked the backbone to handle the Vulcan Clusterfuck.

 

[Mediocre Man]

This is bullshit hindsight-ism. He traded Telfair for Brandon Roy. He traded Tyrus Thomas for LaMarcus Aldridge. Nuff said. Blame God for Oden's knees, but every GM in the league would've made that pick. Every one.

This is a false statement. None of us have any idea what the other GM's would have done after they saw the medical records Portland did. Remember, Portland and OKC were the only teams privy to look at certain medical records. While on paper most all other teams would have picked Oden, none of us have any idea what other teams would have done if they saw how bad his knees really were, like Portland did

 

[Minstrel]

Pritchard took a high-risk/high-reward approach. Had the risks paid off, a Roy/Oden/Aldridge/Batum core would have been utterly amazing. His philosophy was clearly to try to maximize upside rather than go with safer picks.

It's possible that he took the wrong risks or bad risks. Roy still strikes me as a good risk, despite how it turned out. Oden may not have been, but it's pretty impossible to tell. Obviously, anyone skeptical of the move will point to the end result as confirmation, but even good risks can have bad results. I can't evaluate how expected it should have been for Oden to end up like this. I don't think many, if anyone, envisioned this.

I'm generally all for a high-risk/high-reward strategy, because it takes superstars to win championships (generally) and low-risk superstar talents are very rare.

 

[PapaG]

once the "golden boy" of the franchise. HOW BAD DID THIS GUY FUCK UP?? no wonder he got fired....

love broy but that crashed and burned
oden..need a i say more
rudy....laughable
sergio...not in the league anymore.
jarrett jack and brandon rush for bayless???? how bad does that trade look now?
babbitt..........................................
no wonder he hasnt gotten another job
one thing he gets a pat on the back for is batum. but thats it

Indiana has improved to 17-11 this year with Pritchard as the Director of Player Personnel, and has that record with an 11home/17away split this year.

Plus, Indiana managed to sign David West, who has allowed Roy Hibbert to flourish in the post as part of an inside/outside front-line punch.

Seems odd to bash Pritchard considering the team he is with is surpassing all expectations, while the Blazers haven't hired a GM in almost a year and are floundering with an aged, hodge-podge, and thin roster.

You also forgot LMA, but considering the rest of your post, it's easy to see why.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Pritchard took a high-risk/high-reward approach. Had the risks paid off, a Roy/Oden/Aldridge/Batum core would have been utterly amazing. His philosophy was clearly to try to maximize upside rather than go with safer picks.

It's possible that he took the wrong risks or bad risks. Roy still strikes me as a good risk, despite how it turned out. Oden may not have been, but it's pretty impossible to tell. Obviously, anyone skeptical of the move will point to the end result as confirmation, but even good risks can have bad results. I can't evaluate how expected it should have been for Oden to end up like this. I don't think many, if anyone, envisioned this.

I'm generally all for a high-risk/high-reward strategy, because it takes superstars to win championships (generally) and low-risk superstar talents are very rare.

I totally agree I would just prefer the risks be on character and not health.

 

[PapaG]

I totally agree I would just prefer the risks be on character and not health.

Oden/Durant is obvious in hindsight, who were the "safe" picks in the Roy/LMA draft?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Oden/Durant is obvious in hindsight, who were the "safe" picks in the Roy/LMA draft?

Aldridge was obvious, but knowing Roy had knee issues, why not draft Rudy Gay?

 

[jlprk]

It's funny that now we evaluate him mainly on trades, because he was the most reluctant trader I've ever seen. As a former scout, he was addicted to building through the draft. Yet despite having far more picks than most GMs and the Paul Allen advantage to grease every trade with greenbacks, the only successful pick he had below Roy was Batum.

You can evaluate a GM by his trades (he was afraid to trade, couldn't negotiate without making GMs mad because he demanded too much and so got nothing), draft picks (sucked except for the very high obvious picks), business management (couldn't handle it so it was given to Larry Miller), negotiating contracts (took Roy's side and promised him the Moon), and marketing skills (he would never share the Oregonian's nauseating adoration with those under him or over him).

He should go into a field using his talent, narcissism. Maybe he could be a mirror salesman.

 

[PapaG]

Aldridge was obvious, but knowing Roy had knee issues, why not draft Rudy Gay?

Rudy Gay is a slightly-above average player on a bad contract at this point, and the one year he got injured, his team actually made the playoffs without him.

I say this as someone who advocated drafting both Gay and LMA if, possible. I'd much rather have Gerald Wallace/Batum at this point over Gay.

 

[PapaG]

It's funny that now we evaluate him mainly on trades, because he was the most reluctant trader I've ever seen. As a former scout, he was addicted to building through the draft. Yet despite having far more picks than most GMs and the Paul Allen advantage to grease every trade with greenbacks, the only successful pick he had below Roy was Batum.

You can evaluate a GM by his trades (he was afraid to trade, couldn't negotiate without making GMs mad because he demanded too much and so got nothing), draft picks (sucked except for the very high obvious picks), business management (couldn't handle it so it was given to Larry Miller), negotiating contracts (took Roy's side and promised him the Moon), and marketing skills (he would never share the Oregonian's nauseating adoration with those under him or over him).

He should go into a field using his talent, narcissism. Maybe he could be a mirror salesman.

You do realize that both Roy and LMA came via trade, right?

Also, it's been pointed out numerous times on this board, but in many, many interviews, Pritchard gave credit to the entire staff, and often by name.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I think he was the best GM we've had in the last 15 years. He had no way to predict injuries to Roy & Oden. If we had them both healthy we'd be a definite title contending team right now.

 

[PapaG]

As for KP's future, lots of speculation on Indiana boards that Bird picked KP to succeed Bird, who may retire after this season, and that David Moray may not be back, either.

 

[glazeduck]

This is bullshit hindsight-ism. He traded Telfair for Brandon Roy. He traded Tyrus Thomas for LaMarcus Aldridge. Nuff said. Blame God for Oden's knees, but every GM in the league would've made that pick. Every one.

Nice to see someone else have KP's back with at least a fair amount of objectivity.

I think KP's background taught him a few things about building a team in a small market like Portland.

- You need to build your team through the draft: Unquestionable whether or not KP did this, in fact he probably did it to a fault. Important to remember that he also stole Batum from Houston. Portland is rarely, if ever, going to be a true destination for a star player (a must-have for dynasties), so those MUST be acquired in the draft.

- You need to take chances: KP gambled with health and lost a few too many times. Some Blazer fans act as if he wrote his own pink slip simply by drafting players with injury problems. The problem with that logic is that there are PLENTY of players that have had long and very successful careers with early injury problems. We were simply not fortunate enough to draft those players, but you can't argue with the basketball TALENT that he brought in. For those who argue that Rudy was a bust - remember that KP and Tom Penn were able to get him LITERALLY for nothing and, as part of acquiring him, unloaded a "me-first" cancer who's posse was causing trouble throughout the city, and who's attitude was waring in the fans. Don't let ZBo's performance in Memphis cloud your memory of him - he was a knucklehead, at best. A cancer, at worst...

- Character counts: Love him or hate him, through good luck or bad, no one can deny that the team KP put together was full of likable guys that you were proud to root for, win or lose. Again, his risk w/ injured players backfired and we'll never see "what could've been", but that team, had they gone the *other* direction, could've been one of the best and most likable teams in NBA history.

KP swung for the fences and he nearly hit it out. In a world where singles and doubles feel just as bad as outs, in a town that hadn't hit a homerun since '77, do we really want to bag on the guy who gave it a ride to the warning track? It's too bad we fell short, and I'm sure a lot of this bitterness is misplaced disappointment about Oden and Roy's injuries, Nate's ineffectiveness and Allen's baffling mismanagement, but what was KP really guilty of? His greatest offense, that I can see, is a lot of bad luck...

 

[Mediocre Man]

I think he was the best GM we've had in the last 15 years. He had no way to predict injuries to Roy & Oden. If we had them both healthy we'd be a definite title contending team right now.

Yes he did. it has been said several times by KP himself that he knew the risks.

 

[PapaG]

I'll also point out that had KP picked Rudy Gay over Roy, he'd have been fired a hell of a lot sooner than he was, based on Paul Allen's track record with GMs.

 

[Run BJM]

I don't know how you could blame him for drafting BRoy- look at how effing good that dude was. Gay has never been that kind of player as far as ability to take over and win games, and I don't think he ever will be. Plus Roy made his teammates better, Gay is Melo-lite. IMO sometimes you've just got to take a chance on these guys with an injury history. Monta Ellis dropped to the second round because of injuries and, aside from the moped incident, he hasn't had any major injuries and even with the moped thing he hasn't lost a beat athletically. Dejuan Blair shows no signs of slowing down. If you had Gay right now you still wouldn't be a contender. If Roy didn't continue to wreck his knees, you're be much closer IMO.

Foye for Roy was brilliant. Tyrus Thomas for Aldridge was as well, though anyone worth their salt knew he was being overlooked. I always thought Aldridge was clearly the #1 talent in that draft but the Tyrus Thomas hype was off the charts and Colangelo's boner for euros are the only reason Bargs got taken #1 overall. Aldridge getting shit on by Big Baby in the tourney that year didn't help the TT/LSU hype train either.

Rudy was still probably a good pick given how late he was taken (IIRC). Funny how quickly you guys forget how he was your Batum before you had Batum. The gushing over him on here was insane, you all thought he would be an all-star. I remember getting into a Rudy vs Monta Ellis debate on here a few years back. You're the exact same way with Batum now BTW. FWIW I do think Rudy got derailed by Nate and the same could happen to Batum. But Rudy clearly wasn't Joe Johnson re-incarnated or whoever the hell you were comparing him to and Batum isn't going to be Pippen, you'd be pretty lucky if he turns out to be as good as Iguodala IMO.

Also that Kurt Thomas trade with those first round picks was fucking brilliant. Always been a fan of KT and back then he was a really great post defender, one of the key pieces allowing the Suns to be a real contender IMO.

I wouldn't knock the Bayless trade either. That dude had insane talent, and I believe in stockpiling great talent. Jack and Rush are fine role players now but inconsequential in the early stages of building a contending team. You add/keep those kinds of players when you've got the core in place and you know you're contending.

Dunno if you guys have noticed but not a whole lot of draft picks pan out in the NBA. Oden is incredibly unlucky. Roy was brilliant but his knees caught up with him. Aldridge remains a great, great pick. How are you killing this guy for not hitting on 100% of his moves? Zach Randolph just became a valuable player last season and you have a better player at PF anyway.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I could see KP eventually coming back. As long as Allen is the owner, I don't see it. But KP has ties to the community, has shown he has basketball knowledge and I believe he fits a small market team very well . . . he may be attractive to have as a GM to a new owner.

The Roy pick over Gay was absolutely the right pick. Roy has given more to his franchise in 5 yrs than Gay will his ever give to his. ROY, three time allstar, face of the franchise . . . I know some consider it a failure to not get the first round of playoffs, but personally I loved the Roy years (especially given the prior 5 years).

The mistake was resigning him, but I'm guessing most franchises would rather have Roy for 5 years than Gay for a career . . . as a fan I know I would.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I could see KP eventually coming back. As long as Allen is the owner, I don't see it. But KP has ties to the community, has shown he has basketball knowledge and I believe he fits a small market team very well . . . he may be attractive to have as a GM to a new owner.

The Roy pick over Gay was absolutely the right pick. Roy has given more to his franchise in 5 yrs than Gay will his ever give to his. ROY, three time allstar, face of the franchise . . . I know some consider it a failure to not get the first round of playoffs, but personally I loved the Roy years (especially given the prior 5 years).

The mistake was resigning him, but I'm guessing most franchises would rather have Roy for 5 years than Gay for a career . . . as a fan I know I would.

I can understand the sentiment and part of me kind of agrees with it ... but it's mostly an emotional response. From a purely business driven or competitive standpoint, Rudy Gay isn't the same caliber of player, but having a pretty good player on your roster who can score and his health at least gives you a movable asset if you get tired of him. What can you do with Roy's contact except eat it?

Ultimately in sports, the most important ability is availability.

 

[Ed O]

Indiana has improved to 17-11 this year with Pritchard as the Director of Player Personnel, and has that record with an 11home/17away split this year.

Plus, Indiana managed to sign David West, who has allowed Roy Hibbert to flourish in the post as part of an inside/outside front-line punch.

Pritchard's role is unclear, but in terms of player acquisition... who have they acquired? David West was a good get, but he's the only new guy who's started more than one game... and he came as the result of $10m in salary cap space.

Seems odd to bash Pritchard considering the team he is with is surpassing all expectations, while the Blazers haven't hired a GM in almost a year and are floundering with an aged, hodge-podge, and thin roster.

I think any criticism of Pritchard seems odd to you.

Whomever we want to blame, the cupboard is pretty bare right now. Cho might deserve some blame, and Buchanan does, but KP seems to be responsible for the lion's share of the success or failure of the current team.

Ed O.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I can understand the sentiment and part of me kind of agrees with it ... but it's mostly an emotional response. From a purely business driven or competitive standpoint, Rudy Gay isn't the same caliber of player, but having a pretty good player on your roster who can score and his health at least gives you a movable asset if you get tired of him. What can you do with Roy's contact except eat it?

Ultimately in sports, the most important ability is availability.

If this is being looked at in hindsight, my point is it wasn't the draft pick taht was a mistake, it was the extention. But for the same price for the first 4 years, I take Roy over Gay . . . even knowing I only get Roy for 4 years and can extend Gay and get Gay for more years.

I thought Roy's value to this club at that time was exactly what the franchise needed, and they got all that on a rookie contract. I would love to draft another Roy, even if only for 4 years. The extention was obviously a mistake, and if Gay blows up and becomes a multiple all star while leading his team beyond the seoncd round than I'm eating crow . . . but the draft pick of Roy was probably the second or third best draft pick the Blazers have done in the past 5-8 years, even given his short career (of course, IMO)

 

[PapaG]

Pritchard's role is unclear, but in terms of player acquisition... who have they acquired? David West was a good get, but he's the only new guy who's started more than one game... and he came as the result of $10m in salary cap space.



I think any criticism of Pritchard seems odd to you.

Whomever we want to blame, the cupboard is pretty bare right now. Cho might deserve some blame, and Buchanan does, but KP seems to be responsible for the lion's share of the success or failure of the current team.

Ed O.

To me, that says more about the sad state of the franchise in terms of ownership than it says anything about Pritchard.

Since he left, the team has gone backward. Cho is tough to evaluate, although had Roy not completely disintegrated physically in almost no time at all, last year's acquisition of Wallace seemed smart at the time.

As for the David West acquisition, somebody evaluated how he fit into the team, and Indiana has certainly improved with him in the line-up compared to last season.

The Felton move, IMO, was in part because Paul Allen wanted a faster tempo, and the Crawford move, IMO, was desperation to try and somehow replace what Roy gave the team on the offensive end.

Outside of LMA, is there a contributing player on this roster that anybody expects to be in Portland two years from now? Batum seems likely, but Portland may have to overpay for him, based on what he shows at times.

The relates back to another thread, but what is the long-term plan? Is Oden even a part of it? Is there anybody within the organization with the job security to think about a long-term plan at this point? I just don't see it.

 

[Minstrel]

It's fair to put a lot of the current state of the Blazers on Pritchard. Management is a bottom-line position in terms of evaluating after the fact.

That said, I largely (not completely, but mostly) liked Pritchard's process and to me, that's the most important thing: having (in my eyes, at least) an intelligent process that you execute. Sometimes things still don't work out and you cash out a loser, so to speak. If people have a negative impression of Pritchard based on the end results, I can't entirely blame them. But I think the Blazers had a smart and dedicated GM in Pritchard who did many of the right things, at the time based on the information available then, but didn't get the right results. That position doesn't have any cognitive dissonance to me.

 

[PapaG]

If this is being looked at in hindsight, my point is it wasn't the draft pick taht was a mistake, it was the extention. But for the same price for the first 4 years, I take Roy over Gay . . . even knowing I only get Roy for 4 years and can extend Gay and get Gay for more years.

I thought Roy's value to this club at that time was exactly what the franchise needed, and they got all that on a rookie contract. I would love to draft another Roy, even if only for 4 years. The extention was obviously a mistake, and if Gay blows up and becomes a multiple all star while leading his team beyond the seoncd round than I'm eating crow . . . but the draft pick of Roy was probably the second or third best draft pick the Blazers have done in the past 5-8 years, even given his short career (of course, IMO)

I'll also go back to my opinion that if KP takes Rudy Gay, he gets fired a long time prior to 2010, because LMA wasn't ready to be an All-Star, and Gay had the opportunity to be a franchise player with Memphis and failed.

Are we even talking about 3 first-round exits with Gay instead of Roy? Would LMA have been traded years ago because the team didn't have Roy to lead it to wins?

Questions to consider for those who would go back and take Rudy Gay. Why not say Rondo should have been the pick over both Roy and Gay, if we get do overs?

 

[MickZagger]

Indiana has improved to 17-11 this year with Pritchard as the Director of Player Personnel, and has that record with an 11home/17away split this year.

Plus, Indiana managed to sign David West, who has allowed Roy Hibbert to flourish in the post as part of an inside/outside front-line punch.

How much credit are you going to give the director of player personnel for that?

 

[PapaG]

It's fair to put a lot of the current state of the Blazers on Pritchard. Management is a bottom-line position in terms of evaluating after the fact.

That said, I largely (not completely, but mostly) liked Pritchard's process and to me, that's the most important thing: having (in my eyes, at least) an intelligent process that you execute. Sometimes things still don't work out and you cash out a loser, so to speak. If people have a negative impression of Pritchard based on the end results, I can't entirely blame them. But I think the Blazers had a smart and dedicated GM in Pritchard who did many of the right things, at the time based on the information available then, but didn't get the right results. That position doesn't have any cognitive dissonance to me.

I'm not sure what results he should be measured on, though. He took over a roster that had no NBA talent, and within a few years, had that team winning 54 games. I agree with you 100% about the process, though. A process brings stability, and the great organizations in the NBA have both a process and stability.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

For what it is worth, KP gave a tweet out to LA for making the all star team. Something tells me he is still close to players he knew during his Blazers days. Not sure if that means anything, but I think it tends to say he has a good report with athletes.

 

[PapaG]

How much credit are you going to give the director of player personnel for that?

More than the blame I give him for a team's performance 1.5 seasons after he's been fired.

Of the current players on the roster, Pritchard was around for LMA, Camby, Oden, and Batum. I'd argue that those are 4 out of the 5 best players on the team, because when Oden's been healthy, he's been a very good NBA player.

Cho brought in Wallace. Since then? It's hard to say who is making the moves, isn't it?