Rudy Gay may be available for S&T

[RoyToy]

So if there was a 9 foot tall, 500lb giant, who could park himself under the hoop and dunk it every time (and get fouled every time) but couldn't do ANYTHING ELSE, then he'd have a "well-rounded offensive game"?

Huh?

 

[BBert]

I prefer Rudy Gay to Travis Outlaw, but neither plays for the Blazers. I prefer Nicolas Batum to Rudy Gay, and we already have Nico. We don't need Rudy Gay, and certainly not at what he probably wants to be paid and what it would take to get him. Moreover, I'd prefer to resign Travis for what he's worth than to trade assets to get Gay and pay him more than he's worth.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I prefer Rudy Gay to Travis Outlaw, but neither plays for the Blazers. I prefer Nicolas Batum to Rudy Gay, and we already have Nico. We don't need Rudy Gay, and certainly not at what he probably wants to be paid and what it would take to get him. Moreover, I'd prefer to resign Travis for what he's worth than to trade assets to get Gay and pay him more than he's worth.

That's well put and very reasonable. I personally would prefer Travis to Gay even if they cost the same because Gay has only given the appearance of being a shot-hog who doesn't help team chemistry and doesn't even try on defense, whereas Outlaw is possibly the nicest professional athlete around and the only reason that Brandon Roy and LaMarcus Aldridge ever got to know each other. Plus Travis is clutch: [video=youtube;R2Z4nxdjpnE]

 

[Minstrel]

Gay averages 17ppg for his career while Outlaw is still in single digits. I'd say that shows what they're actually doing, and shows that being a more complete player is the reason why Gay starts and get those shots.

Yes, but he doesn't do it particularly efficiently. The fact that a terrible organization has given him the green light to shoot as much as he wants isn't a particularly compelling argument to me. If he had been drafted by the Spurs and got that many minutes and shots, I'd find the argument much more valuable. Gay came into the league as a fairly hyped prospect and had a nice start to his career...he simply stalled out. In that context, the fact that a largely talentless team kept featuring him isn't surprising. It's possible that Outlaw would be worse if given the shots Gay is, but I don't think so. Most players decline with greater usage due to getting fewer of the "easy opportunities." Outlaw's role the past couple of seasons with Portland was to take the tough chances, when nothing else was working. The team certainly didn't attempt to feature him and get him good opportunities. They generally just threw it to him and said "Make something happen." Outlaw was no star at doing that, but I think his effectiveness would actually rise if given a system centered around him, like Memphis centered around Gay. I don't think a team would be successful doing that, but Memphis wasn't successful doing it with Gay, either.

 

[Blaze01]

Wow...I don't even think it is close...

Rudy Gay IMO is better now than Travis Outlaw ever will be...

For argument's sake if they were both UFA on the market does anyone really believe that Outlaw would recieve comprable contracts from NBA teams?

I think Outlaw is in for a rude awakenng this offseason and will likely sign on somewhere for cheap, that won't be the case for Rudy Gay...

Also, I don't think you can underestimate Outlaw's lack of bball IQ...the fact that even this year before he was dealt he had issue comprehending plays, after how many years in the league? Gay may have been a black hole\chucker in MEM, but he wasn't alone, and I certainly can't blame him, playing with that MEM team....

It would be interesating to see how Gay would respond to Nate, the guy has the defensive potential, he displayed it in college...and he would be a good scorer off the bench...problem is, could he accept that role?

 

[Pinwheel1]

Gay has a big ego and may think he is worth more than he is. Not even PA can afford 10 million for each starter at each position. So do you allocate that much for Gay?
Or do you wait for a PG. With Batum developing I say spend it on a PG unless someone better comes along.

Will Memphis even deal with us?

 

[BGrantFan]

I think if Batum was given the same scoring opportunities that Gay was given, he would have better stats. The SF in Nate's offense is probably the most underused possition on the floor. Not bashing, just observing

He ruined Rashard Lewis. How did he ever get a max contract?

 

[BGrantFan]

I agree, PER is seriously flawed.

How is PER seriously flawed? I'd like to learn how it is flawed, since I think it's probably the fairest individual statistic in basketball in assessing the overall abilities offensively of a player.

 

[Mediocre Man]

He ruined Rashard Lewis. How did he ever get a max contract?

Ok. During his time as Portland's head coach, the SF possition is underutilized in our offense.

 

[Blaze01]

How is PER seriously flawed? I'd like to learn what it is flawed, skince I think it's probably the fairest individual statistic in basketball in assessing the overall abilities offensively of a player.

I don't think PER accurately reflects a players impact on a game. If a player has a bad quarter or half and his team gets blown out, but he makes up points in the 4th quarter when the game is already decided, his PER looks good, but it doesn't accurately emasure that players impact on the game when it mattered most..

IMO, PER is just one of several measureables that should be taken into account to get an overall perspective on a player, and not the most important...

 

[BGrantFan]

I don't think PER accurately reflects a players impact on a game. If a player has a bad quarter or half and his team gets blown out, but he makes up points in the 4th quarter when the game is already decided, his PER looks good, but it doesn't accurately emasure that players impact on the game when it mattered most..

IMO, PER is just one of several measureables that should be taken into account to get an overall perspective on a player, and not the most important...

How many players' PERs are affected by your theory? Couldn't it be said that your theory holds true for every statistic? PER actually evens it out over time. I don't think it's a good indicator in an individual game, but I've never seen that argument made for PER anyhow.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think Rudy Gay is the one player that guarantees a Minstrel reply.

 

[oldmangrouch]

There are 3 separate arguments here.

Is Gay more versatile offensively than Outlaw? No question.

Is Gay a more efficient scorer than Outlaw? The evidence doesn't support that.

Is Gay a better team player than Outlaw? All evidence points to an emphatic no. Every indication is that Gay expects a star salary and star treatment....even though he hasn't earned it.

 

[Blaze01]

How many players' PERs are affected by your theory?

I think more than you think there are....

I would use Aldridge's playoff performance as one example...I think that is where the disconnect comes from just analyzing his playoff PER and then looking at when he actually was\wasn't scoring and the result of that in the game at that time...

 

[BGrantFan]

Ok. During his time as Portland's head coach, the SF possition is underutilized in our offense.

He had Martell Webster and Travis Outlaw to work with for his first 4 years. Batum looks to be an improvement, and his PER is elevated over those two, but Nic is still a raw player who is developing his game.

Seems more about the players so far at SF than it does the system. Nate proved he could take a young 2nd rounder and let him flourish at SF in Seattle with Lewis.

 

[ABM]

Why did I at first read this title as, "Rudy's Gay and may be available for S&M"?

 

[Denny Crane]

Blazers need a Rudy to replace the one that's leaving.

[video=youtube;_see87yq88o]

 

[STOMP]

Why did I at first read this title as, "Rudy's Gay and may be available for S&M"?

ask Dr Freud

STOMP

 

[ABM]

ask Dr Freud

STOMP

Something about my id?

 

[STOMP]

Ok. During his time as Portland's head coach, the SF possition is underutilized in our offense.

according to 82 games.com, Brandon played 12.5 MPG at SF last season posting a 24.8 PER. Was he being underutilized while doing so or were you just trying out a new angle to blast away at a Blazer head coach?

STOMP

 

[Denny Crane]

according to 82 games.com, Brandon played 12.5 MPG at SF last season posting a 24.8 PER. Was he being underutilized while doing so or were you just trying out a new angle to blast away at a Blazer head coach?

STOMP

Blazers played a lot of 3 guard offense, especially before the trade for Camby. So 82games.com had to pick someone who played "SF" even though there wasn't one. Though someone had to guard the SF on defense.

 

[Masbee]

Masbee has been against attempting to bring in Rudy Gay to the Blazers for at least a year as his name keeps poping up.

It isn't a good fit on the floor - we don't need in the starting unit an inefficient scorer who doesn't excel in other areas. He wants too much money for his worth. We just don't suit each other. Look somewhere else.

By the way, a great fit for our team is a strong perimeter defender, who shoots the 3 very well, and has enough offensive game besides (mid range, ballhandling, slashing) to have his moments as part of the offense.

Or, in other words, take Batum's best month in the NBA, expand that to 35 min per game, and for an entire season, and we have our guy.

No telling if Batum can do it - but by showing for a time that he can, he and we are half-way there. Unless we bring someone WAY better than Gay in, I don't want to logjam Batum's spot.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Man, Rudy Gay might be the biggest "fools gold" player in the NBA; he looks like a phenomenal talent; great size, great first step, NBA body, elite athlete, fluid, effective dribbler, shot looks pretty good mechanically and when you add it all up? He's a shitty passer, doesn't play defense, settles for bad shots and does nothing to make his teammates better. People are right that he does look a lot better than Travis and if you were to judge each player by their aesthetics Gay would win by a mile, but when you compare what they actually contribute it's nearly a wash.

Some team is going to be pretty upset in about 3 years when they're paying this guy 14 million a year and feeling like they got robbed.

 

[RoyToy]

Yes, but he doesn't do it particularly efficiently. The fact that a terrible organization has given him the green light to shoot as much as he wants isn't a particularly compelling argument to me. If he had been drafted by the Spurs and got that many minutes and shots, I'd find the argument much more valuable. Gay came into the league as a fairly hyped prospect and had a nice start to his career...he simply stalled out. In that context, the fact that a largely talentless team kept featuring him isn't surprising. It's possible that Outlaw would be worse if given the shots Gay is, but I don't think so. Most players decline with greater usage due to getting fewer of the "easy opportunities." Outlaw's role the past couple of seasons with Portland was to take the tough chances, when nothing else was working. The team certainly didn't attempt to feature him and get him good opportunities. They generally just threw it to him and said "Make something happen." Outlaw was no star at doing that, but I think his effectiveness would actually rise if given a system centered around him, like Memphis centered around Gay. I don't think a team would be successful doing that, but Memphis wasn't successful doing it with Gay, either.

I disagree. Gay is featured because he has that kind of ability, Outlaw doesn't. It's that simple. If Outlaw had that kind of ability Webster wouldn't have been starting all those years the Blazers weren't a playoff team.

Done with this argument. Obviously we see things differently.

 

[STOMP]

Blazers played a lot of 3 guard offense, especially before the trade for Camby. So 82games.com had to pick someone who played "SF" even though there wasn't one. Though someone had to guard the SF on defense.

While thats my guess as well at how they delineate positional PT, I don't see much difference between the roles Rudy Martell and Batum play on offense. Despite what letters (SF or SG) appear beside their name in the listings, they play like traditional wings on offense. Generally speaking their role is spread the court with their perimeter threat to compliment post players and slashers, and to make the occasional backcut. If these guys were better ballhandlers/playmakers we'd see them initiating the offense more. We did see a little of this with Rudy and Nic, but it wasn't that successful so that responsibility fell to Brandon Andre and Bayless. While I've pretty much given up on Martell becoming anything more then a spot up shooter on offense, I'd love to see the other two focus on developing better handles and passing ability as doing so would only add to the effectiveness of Portland's attack. But blaming Nate for putting them in roles that suit their current skill-sets and compliment the team's attack is just

Going into this season, Nate's stated plan was for Rudy to be more involved with running the pick and roll. While we saw some of this, of course he struggled with the back injury that eventually required surgery. His shot and play was not what it was the year prior... hopefully thats truly behind him. Hopefully Nic takes another step towards emulating his idol Pip and earns a bigger role on the ball too... I'm sure that Nate (or any HC) would be happy about having his young talents improve their skills. If they show this improvement in practice they'll get to show it in games.

STOMP