Semi-OT: Teams with Cap-Space in 2012

[B-Roy]

Does anyone have a definitive list with probable numbers? Thanks.

 

[Natebishop3]

I was actually looking for this... couldn't find anything that would be an easy answer... we know Dallas and obviously Portland. Boston does as well.

This link http://hoopshype.com/salaries.htm has a list of all the team salaries. (not sure how accurate it is)

I'm looking through it right now.

 

[Chuck Taylor]

And for that matter, a list of guys who are going to be available...

 

[B-Roy]

I remember seeing a post on another board about it. Can't find it now though, ugh.

 

[Natebishop3]

And for that matter, a list of guys who are going to be available...

I posted that in another thread... I'll see if I can find it.

 

[Natebishop3]

Free agents in 2012
http://sportstwo.com/threads/208948-Free-Agents-this-summer

 

[e_blazer]

Going off of StoryTeller's salary information for next season, there are a lot of teams that can have significant cap space for this summer. The actual amount is hard to tell in some cases because it can be influenced by team and player options, but this will give you a general idea (assuming a salary cap of $58 M):

Celtics: $27-$31M
Bobcats: $15-$30M
Cavs: $30-$35M
Mavs: $10M
Nuggets: $7M
Warriors: $11M
Rockets: $23M
Pacers: $25M
Clippers: $0-$8M
Bucks: $4-$11M
T-Wolves: $9M
Nets: $23-$49M
Hornets: $23M
Magic: $0-$26M
76ers: $0-$26M
Suns: $27M
Blazers: $15-$30M
Kings: $16M
Spurs: $11M
Raptors: $13-$14M
Jazz: $5-$7M
Wizards: $25M

Of course, a lot of these teams will use some of their potential cap space to re-sign their own free agents and there could be trades that impact potential cap space.

 

[magnifier661]

Going off of StoryTeller's salary information for next season, there are a lot of teams that can have significant cap space for this summer. The actual amount is hard to tell in some cases because it can be influenced by team and player options, but this will give you a general idea (assuming a salary cap of $58 M):

Celtics: $27-$31M
Bobcats: $15-$30M
Celtics: $30-$35M
Mavs: $10M
Nuggets: $7M
Warriors: $11M
Rockets: $23M
Pacers: $25M
Clippers: $0-$8M
Bucks: $4-$11M
T-Wolves: $9M
Nets: $23-$49M
Hornets: $23M
Magic: $0-$26M
76ers: $0-$26M
Suns: $27M
Blazers: $15-$30M
Kings: $16M
Spurs: $11M
Raptors: $13-$14M
Jazz: $5-$7M
Wizards: $25M

Of course, a lot of these teams will use some of their potential cap space to re-sign their own free agents and there could be trades that impact potential cap space.

Wow Boston has a lot of cap space. I wouldn't be surprised if they land some great free-agents. Why doesn't Howard want to go there? Pairing up with Rondo and a couple more years with Ray Allen and KG? They would beast!

 

[e_blazer]

Wow Boston has a lot of cap space. I wouldn't be surprised if they land some great free-agents. Why doesn't Howard want to go there? Pairing up with Rondo and a couple more years with Ray Allen and KG? They would beast!

The Celtic's will have that cap space if they don't re-sign Allen and KG. Whatever you have to pay those guys to re-sign would reduce the cap space by the same amount.

 

[magnifier661]

The Celtic's will have that cap space if they don't re-sign Allen and KG. Whatever you have to pay those guys to re-sign would reduce the cap space by the same amount.

Or they can get Howard and D Will and fuck KG and Allen. LOL

 

[Natebishop3]

Or they can get Howard and D Will and fuck KG and Allen. LOL

Why would anyone want to go to Boston though?

 

[magnifier661]

Why would anyone want to go to Boston though?

Um large Market, history of winning, rabid fans. Any player would make just as much money as going to NY or LA. There is a ton of money there.

 

[Natebishop3]

Um large Market, history of winning, rabid fans. Any player would make just as much money as going to NY or LA. There is a ton of money there.

History of winning in the 60s, 70s, and 80s... but that team was HORRIBLE in the 90s and 2000s until 2007. They've only been good the last three or four years, which isn't long, and when Garnett/Allen/Pierce are gone that team will sink back into mediocrity. I do not put Boston in the same "big market" category as NY, LA, or even Miami. Sure, it has a big population, but it's not as appealing for free agents I think. Just watch. There's no way they will lure Williams or Howard, even with all that money.

 

[Run BJM]

The Celtic's will have that cap space if they don't re-sign Allen and KG. Whatever you have to pay those guys to re-sign would reduce the cap space by the same amount.

I'm rather sure they'll play the FA field and try to land a big fish before considering re-signing Allen and KG. Even if they strikeout on Dwight/Deron they may just trade Pierce and let the other two go and start re-building hard.

And I think I've gotten into this argument with you before, Natebishop, but I don't understand the logic of how Boston is much worse of an attraction than any other possibilities this offseason. This isn't like 2010 when you had the NY, Chicago, and Miami vying for FAs. New Jersey will eventually be the Brooklyn Nets, which is an advantage, but they've got a significantly crappier history of winning than the Celts. I've heard Dwight wants to be the #1 guy wherever he goes, but does that mean he'll go to the Nets if they don't have Deron Williams? He certainly seems to want to be in NY or LA. Dallas is a "big market" but its kind of like the Bay Area where NBA players don't give a fuck how big it is because it doesn't have the hype machine surrounding it. Who is Dwight going to play with there after Dirk gets old (not to mention Kidd, Marion, Terry, etc.)? Cuban will always make them competitive but is Dwight going to be a bigger star playing for the Mavs or Celtics?

The Nets, Celts, and Mavs look like the only FA players for him. Orlando has some control as to what they take back in a trade. They don't seem to like the Gasol/Bynum offers from LAL very much. IMO the Clippers can come in and win the bidding at any time by putting Blake/Jordan on the table (I would do it if I was them but I'm not a fan of Blake). NJ could try to trade but what do they have besides Lopez? NYK could as well but at this point who wants to build a team around Melo or Amare? If I was the Thunder I would be trying to move two of Westbrook/Ibaka/Harden for Dwight, but that hinges on Dwight staying in OKC. He seems to have a hard on for a big market but I have a hard time seeing how pairing up with Durant wouldn't immediately make him a bigger star than simply going to Brooklyn to play with Anthony Morrow.

Again, I have a hard time seeing what exactly Dwight is looking for. He wants a big market. Does he want a sidekick "better" than him? Kobe, Durant, etc.? Reports say he wants to play with Dirk, Deron, Monta Ellis (something tells me he'll never be a GM lol), and a few other random guys, but would he want to play with Rondo? And will Orlando really let him walk and not S&T him? I don't know the answers so its not easy to speculate, but I find the argument that Boston is such an inferior destination as a complete reach. They've got the money. They'll still have Rondo and Pierce under contract, and where the f*ck are KG and Allen going to go in free agency? They should still have a little chunk of cash to throw at KG even if they do sign Howard outright.

 

[magnifier661]

I'm rather sure they'll play the FA field and try to land a big fish before considering re-signing Allen and KG. Even if they strikeout on Dwight/Deron they may just trade Pierce and let the other two go and start re-building hard.

And I think I've gotten into this argument with you before, Natebishop, but I don't understand the logic of how Boston is much worse of an attraction than any other possibilities this offseason. This isn't like 2010 when you had the NY, Chicago, and Miami vying for FAs. New Jersey will eventually be the Brooklyn Nets, which is an advantage, but they've got a significantly crappier history of winning than the Celts. I've heard Dwight wants to be the #1 guy wherever he goes, but does that mean he'll go to the Nets if they don't have Deron Williams? He certainly seems to want to be in NY or LA. Dallas is a "big market" but its kind of like the Bay Area where NBA players don't give a fuck how big it is because it doesn't have the hype machine surrounding it. Who is Dwight going to play with there after Dirk gets old (not to mention Kidd, Marion, Terry, etc.)? Cuban will always make them competitive but is Dwight going to be a bigger star playing for the Mavs or Celtics?

The Nets, Celts, and Mavs look like the only FA players for him. Orlando has some control as to what they take back in a trade. They don't seem to like the Gasol/Bynum offers from LAL very much. IMO the Clippers can come in and win the bidding at any time by putting Blake/Jordan on the table (I would do it if I was them but I'm not a fan of Blake). NJ could try to trade but what do they have besides Lopez? NYK could as well but at this point who wants to build a team around Melo or Amare? If I was the Thunder I would be trying to move two of Westbrook/Ibaka/Harden for Dwight, but that hinges on Dwight staying in OKC. He seems to have a hard on for a big market but I have a hard time seeing how pairing up with Durant wouldn't immediately make him a bigger star than simply going to Brooklyn to play with Anthony Morrow.

Again, I have a hard time seeing what exactly Dwight is looking for. He wants a big market. Does he want a sidekick "better" than him? Kobe, Durant, etc.? Reports say he wants to play with Dirk, Deron, Monta Ellis (something tells me he'll never be a GM lol), and a few other random guys, but would he want to play with Rondo? And will Orlando really let him walk and not S&T him? I don't know the answers so its not easy to speculate, but I find the argument that Boston is such an inferior destination as a complete reach. They've got the money. They'll still have Rondo and Pierce under contract, and where the f*ck are KG and Allen going to go in free agency? They should still have a little chunk of cash to throw at KG even if they do sign Howard outright.

That's what I'm thinking as well. Boston had only 1 decade of terrible history. They were decent in the early - mid 90's. Yeah they weren't contenders, but still made the playoffs. From 1995-2006 was when they were terrible, but luck screwed them as well, losing Reggie Lewis.

They are a great franchise, with a great fan support. Any big name power player would love it there. I didn't realize that they had that much room available, with a key piece in Rondo. Rondo, Howard and Pierce is a deadly trio. I bet they could get Garnett or Ray Allen to play a couple years for less too. And what happens if they sign Howard, then sign Garnett and Allen after? They can still do it and have all the pieces there to have another 2 years of serious contention, yet still contend after with just Rondo and Howard.

 

[Natebishop3]

I am willing to bet money that Boston won't get Williams and they won't get Howard. They might get someone like Nash.

 

[Run BJM]

Mags, don't forget the loss of Len Bias. They could have continued to contend into the mid-90s if not for his death as well. That's some really tragic and bad luck.

Nate, why would Boston even bother with Nash? They have Rondo and they're trying to get away from the mid-late 30 year old core. Maybe if they do move Rondo for another prime star and have a hole to fill at PG, but I doubt that will happen. More likely they just go into full rebuild IMO than keep trying to make it work with over the hill stars.

Odds are probably in your favor on your bet, but IMO Boston is definitely in the race. Out of curiosity, where do you think Dwight does end up?

 

[Natebishop3]

Mags, don't forget the loss of Len Bias. They could have continued to contend into the mid-90s if not for his death as well. That's some really tragic and bad luck.

Nate, why would Boston even bother with Nash? They have Rondo and they're trying to get away from the mid-late 30 year old core. Maybe if they do move Rondo for another prime star and have a hole to fill at PG, but I doubt that will happen. More likely they just go into full rebuild IMO than keep trying to make it work with over the hill stars.

Odds are probably in your favor on your bet, but IMO Boston is definitely in the race. Out of curiosity, where do you think Dwight does end up?

If he doesn't stay with Orlando, which I think is still a possibility, I could see him ending up in Brooklyn with Williams or maybe some place like Houston/Phoenix. I wish he'd come to Portland because I think Aldridge/Howard would be fucking amazing, especially if they could get Williams too. I only see a handful of teams on that list that could offer a max contract to BOTH Williams and Howard, and still boast an All-Star like Aldridge just coming into his prime and someone like Batum to round out the roster.

Boston has Rondo and could afford both, but that's about it. Most of the other teams could afford one or the other, but not both, unless they clear some more cap. Why would Howard or Williams want to go somewhere with an aging team like Dallas, or zero foundation already in place? That makes no sense to me. I'm not saying Portland is in the running, but I don't see why they shouldn't be. We could conceivably offer max deals to both Howard and Williams, still have Aldridge, and get Batum signed for a respectable deal. That sounds pretty damn good to me. They would just have to bring in some bench players, but I don't see why that would be a problem. Vets would love to play with that group.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Odds are probably in your favor on your bet, but IMO Boston is definitely in the race. Out of curiosity, where do you think Dwight does end up?

when was the last time boston signed a major free agent?

i think dwight stays in orlando, as long as orlando doesnt agree to sign and trade him, no way he leaves 20-30 million on the table

 

[Natebishop3]

when was the last time boston signed a major free agent?

i think dwight stays in orlando, as long as orlando doesnt agree to sign and trade him, no way he leaves 20-30 million on the table

That's what I think as well.

 

[Run BJM]

when was the last time boston signed a major free agent?

This argument means nothing IMO. You have to look at each situation individually. They have a top 5 young PG, Paul Pierce still under contract, possibility of retaining KG/Allen, they're a big media market that gets lots of love on ESPN (not NY/LAL but big the next tier down), they have a history that other teams don't if that means anything. Howard/Rondo/Pierce/KG is a pretty good top 4 for the next two seasons and he'll still have Rondo for the next decade, once Pierce expires they'll again have a sh*tload of cash to get another 3rd core piece. Or maybe they dump Rondo and go all out for Deron/Dwight. They've got options. It isn't NY or LA, but they have a decent pitch and the crop of suitors isn't as high quality as in 2010.

i think dwight stays in orlando, as long as orlando doesnt agree to sign and trade him, no way he leaves 20-30 million on the table

I am extremely interested to see how this plays out. Will Orlando really play hardball and let him walk? Will Dwight give up the extra money to leave?

I'll go the opposite way and say that Dwight ends up somewhere else, one way or the other. Partly because I think he does believe he can make up the money he would lose by getting the f*ck out of Orlando. Partly because it sounds like hes burning bridges with his teammates and it doesn't make sense for either party to bring him back into that kind of locker room situation where everyone knows he doesn't want to be there. Ultimately they can't win a ring with Dwight and the current supporting cast, its a talent issue but its also a chemistry issue. Trading Dwight does mean they could get out of Hedo's contract and add some kind of value in return.

Adding Monta Ellis or some other feaux star won't make them a real contender. Perhaps that combined with the extra 20-30 mil (if thats really how much he'll lose) is enough to keep Dwight. I dunno though, its hard to see Dwight opting for Monta and Hedo Turkoglu instead of Rondo/Pierce or Dirk or Deron or whatever his other options are.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

This argument means nothing IMO.

wasnt an argument, i was actually wondering when the last time they signed someone big i agree to an extent, but players dont really seem to care about bostons "mystique" or whatever, they want LA/CHI/NY or warm weather....or the #1 trump card, THE MOST MONEY

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I am willing to bet money that Boston won't get Williams and they won't get Howard. They might get someone like Nash.

So you think Blazers have a chance at Williams but Boston does not?

 

[Natebishop3]

So you think Blazers have a chance at Williams but Boston does not?

That's not what I said. I said that I don't understand why the Blazers wouldn't have a chance... they have the space to sign both Williams and Howard this summer, while still retaining Aldridge and possibly even Batum. That would be a pretty amazing starting core right there. But why would Williams want to go to Boston when they have Rondo? Or are you assuming that Rondo is traded before this summer?

 

[Run BJM]

I don't think the idea of Batum becoming the third wheel of a Big Three has much weight to these guys.

Portland would be great with Dwight or Deron, but you can't underestimate the egotism of these guys. They're all vying for more and more face time on Sportscenter and in Nike commercials. PDX can't compete with Boston or Dallas let alone LA or NY in that respect.

You guys don't have any real recruiters either. I don't think anyone wants to play for McMillan. Paul Allen isn't going to get through to these guys. You have no GM. Will these guys listen to LMA and would LMA even make a pitch? Guys like Pat Riley, D'Antoni, Doc Rivers, Isiah Thomas, Mark Cuban, the Russian guy who owns the Nets, and then players like Dirk, Kidd, Deron, KG, Paul Pierce, Chris Paul could feasibly get through to these guys and make some kind of impact if all else is equal.