Politics Seperation of church and state

[PDXFonz]

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Latest on an executive order on an IRS rule on churches (all times local):

12:19 p.m.

President Donald Trump is signing an executive order that will further weaken enforcement of an IRS rule barring churches and tax-exempt groups from endorsing political candidates.

Trump signed the order at a White House ceremony Thursday marking the National Day of Prayer.

The executive order has disappointed some of Trump's supporters who were hoping for a more sweeping measure.

The order asks the IRS to use "maximum enforcement discretion" over the regulation, known as the Johnson Amendment, which applies to churches and nonprofits.

Trump noted that "freedom is not a gift from government, freedom is a gift from God."

And he insisted that no American should be "forced to choose between the dictates of the federal government and the tenants of their faith."

https://apnews.com/amp/110355d3e1c74700af3707943316956f

 

[Natebishop3]

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Separation of church and state was never supposed to prevent religious institutions from participating in the democratic process, but only to prevent government from interfering in people's religion. This doesn't violate that tenet at all.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

I don't see why people are against these laws. Just start a religion and take advantage of it!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

The war on atheists needs to stop.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

unions endorsing politicians = bad

churches endorsing politicians = freedom!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Trump did puss on what he was originally going to sign an executive order on. ACLU was going to hammer the hell out of him and he caved.

 

[MarAzul]

unions endorsing politicians = bad

churches endorsing politicians = freedom!

Ha!
I would hope you could see the difference here. Somehow I do not think you do.

 

[MarAzul]

ACLU was going to hammer the hell out of him

Please bring me up to speed Sly. What?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Please bring me up to speed Sly. What?

ACLU won't sue, says 'religious freedom' order was 'elaborate photo-op'

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) reversed course Thursday, saying it won't file a lawsuit challenging President Trump's executive order on religious political exemptions.

“Today’s executive order signing was an elaborate photo-op with no discernible policy outcome," ACLU director Anthony Romero said in a statement.

"After careful review of the order’s text we have determined that the order does not meaningfully alter the ability of religious institutions or individuals to intervene in the political process. The order portends, but does not yet do harm to the provision of reproductive health services," Romero added.

The ACLU director went on to criticize Trump's assertion that he wants to do away with the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits religious institutions from supporting or opposing political parties and candidates.

“President Trump’s prior assertion that he wished to ‘totally destroy’ the Johnson Amendment with this order has proven to be a textbook case of ‘fake news,’" Romero said.

“The directive to federal agencies to explore religious-based exceptions to healthcare does cue up a potential future battle, but as of now, the status quo has not changed," he continued.

“What President Trump did today was merely provide a faux sop to religious conservatives and kick the can down the road on religious exemptions on reproductive health care services."

The ACLU initially signaled it would challenge the executive order in court, stating earlier Thursday that the organization intends "to file suit today.”

http://thehill.com/regulation/332018-aclu-reverses-on-suing-over-religious-freedom-order

 

[MarAzul]

ummm, the ladies look pretty happy.

Wonder what the ACLU is bitching about with this one?

"a wedge to further divide the country and permit discrimination"

 

[oldfisherman]

Thoughts on ways our country has changed.

Phones-Wireless
Cooking-Fireless
Cars-Keyless
Food-Fatless
Tires-Tubeless
Youth-Jobless
Leaders-Shameless
Attitudes-Careless
Babies-Fatherless
Feelings-Heartless
Education-Valueless
Children-Manner less
Country-Godless
Government-Clueless
Politicians-Worthless

And I’m scared shitless

 

[MARIS61]

ACLU won't sue, says 'religious freedom' order was 'elaborate photo-op'

The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) reversed course Thursday, saying it won't file a lawsuit challenging President Trump's executive order on religious political exemptions.

“Today’s executive order signing was an elaborate photo-op with no discernible policy outcome," ACLU director Anthony Romero said in a statement.

"After careful review of the order’s text we have determined that the order does not meaningfully alter the ability of religious institutions or individuals to intervene in the political process. The order portends, but does not yet do harm to the provision of reproductive health services," Romero added.

The ACLU director went on to criticize Trump's assertion that he wants to do away with the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits religious institutions from supporting or opposing political parties and candidates.

“President Trump’s prior assertion that he wished to ‘totally destroy’ the Johnson Amendment with this order has proven to be a textbook case of ‘fake news,’" Romero said.

“The directive to federal agencies to explore religious-based exceptions to healthcare does cue up a potential future battle, but as of now, the status quo has not changed," he continued.

“What President Trump did today was merely provide a faux sop to religious conservatives and kick the can down the road on religious exemptions on reproductive health care services."

The ACLU initially signaled it would challenge the executive order in court, stating earlier Thursday that the organization intends "to file suit today.”

http://thehill.com/regulation/332018-aclu-reverses-on-suing-over-religious-freedom-order

ACLU backed down after realizing they had no case.

 

[MarAzul]

Thoughts on ways our country has changed.

Phones-Wireless
Cooking-Fireless
Cars-Keyless
Food-Fatless
Tires-Tubeless
Youth-Jobless
Leaders-Shameless
Attitudes-Careless
Babies-Fatherless
Feelings-Heartless
Education-Valueless
Children-Manner less
Country-Godless
Government-Clueless
Politicians-Worthless

And I’m scared shitless

Damn! Too true!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Wonder what the ACLU is bitching about with this one?

That article clearly said what they were concerned about.

 

[MarAzul]

That article clearly said what they were concerned about.

No Sly, I don't thing anything in that statement is clear at all.
What the heck discrimination do they think is going to happen?
Farther divide? Hell man, I have no idea how you could further divide us.'
So the bare statement is meaningless.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Ha!
I would hope you could see the difference here. Somehow I do not think you do.

Sure do! Unions don't shelter pedophiles.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

No Sly, I don't thing anything in that statement is clear at all.
What the heck discrimination do they think is going to happen?
Farther divide? Hell man, I have no idea how you could further divide us.'
So the bare statement is meaningless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Amendment

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Do away with the Johnson Amendment and muslim countries can give money to mosques and those mosques can use that money to influence our elections.

And then we'll end up with someone named Barack Hussein in the White House.

 

[Denny Crane]

Black churches have long supported democrats, suggesting who to vote for and get out the vote.

I don't oppose people freely associating to influence political action. Unions aren't free associations, but they should be.

 

[MarAzul]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_Amendment

Do away with the Johnson Amendment and muslim countries can give money to mosques and those mosques can use that money to influence our elections.

And then we'll end up with someone named Barack Hussein in the White House.

Thanks for the info. But I don't see what the Johnson Amendment has to do the statement I questioned.

 

[MarAzul]

Unions aren't free associations, but they should be

Very true. But then even if they were, you can have the Unions supporting the next dude who will negotiate their next contract. Not a workable system.

 

[MarAzul]

Sure do! Unions don't shelter pedophiles.

If you say so.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Do you not pay dues at church anymore? Like some collective bargaining to get into heaven.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Do you not pay dues at church anymore? Like some collective bargaining to get into heaven.

Outside of a few overzealous exceptions, churches do not exclude attendees or even members who do not tithe. Giving is voluntary, as is membership itself, which differentiates from unions.

 

[santeesioux]

And here I was hoping we would start taxing them soon.

 

[Denny Crane]

Separation of church and state is why we don't tax churches. The tax system isn't even handed, so some churches would have tax burdens different from others, and that would be favoring one religion over another.

I'm no fan of religion in any form, but it isn't for me to order anyone else what to believe.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

just your basic political maneuvering.

"god fearin' folk vote republican, so lets make them more relevant politically."

when dems are in control it will get squashed again, and so on.

 

[Natebishop3]

Separation of church and state was never supposed to prevent religious institutions from participating in the democratic process, but only to prevent government from interfering in people's religion. This doesn't violate that tenet at all.

In addition to that.... they also didn't want another Church of England. The amendment prevents Congress from creating a government endorsed religion.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

How people took that to mean that there should be ZERO religion in schools or government is beyond me. I really think "Separation of Church and State" has to be the most misunderstood part of the Constitution. Probably more than "freedom of speech," which interestingly enough is part of the same damn amendment.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

In addition to that.... they also didn't want another Church of England. The amendment prevents Congress from creating a government endorsed religion.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

How people took that to mean that there should be ZERO religion in schools or government is beyond me. I really think "Separation of Church and State" has to be the most misunderstood part of the Constitution. Probably more than "freedom of speech," which interestingly enough is part of the same damn amendment.

Thing is, the phrase "separation of church and state" doesn't even come from the constitution itself, but from a letter Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists in 1801, specifically telling them that their church should be safe from government interference.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.