Sergio ends season 7th in the league

[blue32]

logic hurts my brain ! miksaid!

 

[Masbee]

He wasn't in foul trouble at all in LA against the Clippers last week but he played terribly. 4 pts & 6 rebs, but he was worse than his stats. Look, I love the Blazers and love Oden and want him to do well, but let's please keep it real. Very often, the guy plays terribly. In foul trouble or not.

True.

But, when comparing him to Howard, you seem to be thinking about the Howard of now and forgetting that the raw, rookie Dwight Howard often looked like the raw player that he was. Some nights during Howard's rookie campaign he looked bad. Why you conveniently ignore this fact in a forced effort to dis Oden, I can't fathom.

 

[maxiep]

Greg Oden is a winner. Statistics are the easiest way to measure contribution, but the stats generally used are really bad at describing the impact Oden has on a game.

We won 54 games this season. In Dwight's first season, the Magic won 36. It's no coincidence that we started dominating on the defensive end when he got healthy. We played a great stretch a few games after he came back from his foot injury, took a dip on the defensive end after we lost him to Corey Maggette's knee brace and then went back up again after he got in a bit of shape upon returning from his knee injury. And while much of that has to do with having to use Channing Frye, it also has to do with his impact in the interior.

The Orlando Magic are run through Dwight Howard. Right now Greg Oden is our fourth or fifth offensive option when he's on the floor. And that's not to mention that we're seeing a slow, out of shape GO who still hasn't fully recovered from MF.

Greg Oden is better than he's being credit for.

 

[Shooter]

Greg Oden is a winner. Statistics are the easiest way to measure contribution, but the stats generally used are really bad at describing the impact Oden has on a game.

We won 54 games this season. In Dwight's first season, the Magic won 36. It's no coincidence that we started dominating on the defensive end when he got healthy. We played a great stretch a few games after he came back from his foot injury, took a dip on the defensive end after we lost him to Corey Maggette's knee brace and then went back up again after he got in a bit of shape upon returning from his knee injury. And while much of that has to do with having to use Channing Frye, it also has to do with his impact in the interior.

I wish I could agree, but I just don't see it. Oden has definitely made a contribution on the defensive end, but he's spent so little time on the court that I really don't see that as a major factor in our success. Not to mention all the free throws he gives the other team by his more-or-less constant fouling.

 

[andalusian]

I wish I could agree, but I just don't see it. Oden has definitely made a contribution on the defensive end, but he's spent so little time on the court that I really don't see that as a major factor in our success. Not to mention all the free throws he gives the other team by his more-or-less constant fouling.

Go to 82games.com and look at Greg Oden's net contribution on/off per 100 possessions.

The Blazers are up 2.4 pts more per 100 possessions when Greg is on the court than when he is not. He gives the Blazers a positive contribution - which is amazing when you consider that Greg is not a starter...

Compare this Frye who is our backup center when Greg is out of the line-up - and you will see that we are -18 per 100 possessions...

Having Greg Oden as our backup center is a huge addition. If we consider that he plays just under 1/2 a game - and the Blazers have 90 possessions per game - you can make a rough calculation and figure out the the Blazers are about 8-9 points more per game when Oden is our backup center than when Frye is. If 8 to 9 points (net) per game swing is not a big contribution - I do not know what is...

Remember that last year's Blazers team was overall -1 PPG and won 41 games - telling you they over-achieved - probably because of Roy's clutch ability. The Blazers this year are +5.3 PPG in differential. It is not all on Oden - but I firmly believe that the Blazers having quality 45 minutes of center production per game for most of this year compared to only 23 mMPG last year is a big big contribution...

 

[KingSpeed]

True.

But, when comparing him to Howard, you seem to be thinking about the Howard of now and forgetting that the raw, rookie Dwight Howard often looked like the raw player that he was. Some nights during Howard's rookie campaign he looked bad. Why you conveniently ignore this fact in a forced effort to dis Oden, I can't fathom.

Some nights, DHo even looks bad nowadays. I remember a 4 pt 9 rebound game out of him earlier in the season. But DHo still averaged a double double his rookie year and shattered a ton of records. I don't dis Oden. I just get frustrated with him.

 

[KingSpeed]

Were you the same guy who said Jarrett Jack > Devin Harris? I find it uncharacteristic that the biggest Blazer homer on this board, bordering on lunacy, is so quick to dismiss a legitimate Oden excuse (rookie, injury, foul trouble). Travis Outlaw, your prized godsend is showing promise only now, in his 5th year in the league. If I recall correctly, you called Oden a "serious project"-- so why is it that you, the ultimate Blazer optimist who believes Oden a project, are less able to see the the positives that Oden brings to the table than the rest of us?

I see LOTS of positives:

http://sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139264&highlight=On+ODen

http://sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139596&highlight=On+ODen

http://sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137808&highlight=doubt+peril

 

[KingSpeed]

Greg Oden is a winner. Statistics are the easiest way to measure contribution, but the stats generally used are really bad at describing the impact Oden has on a game.

We won 54 games this season. In Dwight's first season, the Magic won 36. It's no coincidence that we started dominating on the defensive end when he got healthy. We played a great stretch a few games after he came back from his foot injury, took a dip on the defensive end after we lost him to Corey Maggette's knee brace and then went back up again after he got in a bit of shape upon returning from his knee injury. And while much of that has to do with having to use Channing Frye, it also has to do with his impact in the interior.

The Orlando Magic are run through Dwight Howard. Right now Greg Oden is our fourth or fifth offensive option when he's on the floor. And that's not to mention that we're seeing a slow, out of shape GO who still hasn't fully recovered from MF.

Greg Oden is better than he's being credit for.

We're 14-7 when he doesn't play.

 

[bigbailes]

i see a lot of idiots who have no clue. the guy hasn't had a full off-season to actually work on his game at the NBA level and he has contributed alot to this team in his limited time. the problem isn't greg, it is the expectations that were hoisted upon him when he entered the league. the league billed him as the next bill russell, even going so far as to sit him at a table with some of the all-time great centers, before he had even stepped onto an nba court.

he is a work in progress on the offensive end, and this was known by many when he was drafted. in hs/college he got by with his size and athleticism and this isn't going to work all the time in the nba. big men, throughout the nba's history, have taken more time to develop than wing players and you are seeing that in greg. do i wish he wouldn't foul so much? sure but he'll figure it out and once again there will be people on here that look like giant idiots, but they'll tell you they've been behind greg the whole time.

 

[Miksaid]

Lovely! Then you'll understand the confusion I have with what exactly your stance is when I clicked the the very first link you provided me and found this post:

Both. The point is that Oden compares very favorably to two MVPs/Champions. I'd say Oden is having a better rookie season than both of them. In other words, Oden is not a dud.

This seems contradictory to the posts you've made on this thread.

 

[KingSpeed]

i see a lot of idiots who have no clue. the guy hasn't had a full off-season to actually work on his game at the NBA level and he has contributed alot to this team in his limited time. the problem isn't greg, it is the expectations that were hoisted upon him when he entered the league. the league billed him as the next bill russell, even going so far as to sit him at a table with some of the all-time great centers, before he had even stepped onto an nba court.

he is a work in progress on the offensive end, and this was known by many when he was drafted. in hs/college he got by with his size and athleticism and this isn't going to work all the time in the nba. big men, throughout the nba's history, have taken more time to develop than wing players and you are seeing that in greg. do i wish he wouldn't foul so much? sure but he'll figure it out and once again there will be people on here that look like giant idiots, but they'll tell you they've been behind greg the whole time.

Everyone in here IS behind him.

 

[ehizzy3]

Sadly, this is true. I'm also a huge Oden supporter, but he still looks lost most of the time. In last night's game he threw up an airball on a hook shot, got the ball knocked out of his hands two or three times, and looked generally inept on offense, unless he was right under the basket.

I'm hoping he turns it up a notch in the playoffs.

am the only one that gets the notion from shooters posts that he isnt a "huge oden supporter" ??

 

[KingSpeed]

Lovely! Then you'll understand the confusion I have with what exactly your stance is when I clicked the the very first link you provided me and found this post:



This seems contradictory to the posts you've made on this thread.

My problem in this thread was about people who think per36 means anything. And people who think Oden is having as good a rookie season as Howard. He isn't. That's that.

But, like I also wrote, his rookie season IS better than many MVPs.

 

[KingSpeed]

Also-- keep in mind. Oden, himself, gives himself a C- for the season.

One thing that has bothered me is that he seemed to play his best ball at the beginning of the season and then, somehow, got psyched out.

In his 2nd through 5th game back from his foot injury in November, he averaged 14.2 ppg, 9.8 rpg, 3.0 bpg. Due to foul trouble, he didn't continue to be that kind of shotblocker. In fact, he's blocked 3 or more shots in a game only five times since then.

He did have a fantastic 5 game stretch in January where he averaged 16.4 ppg 11.4 rpg, 1.4 bpg. So that was good. The potential is there.

 

[Minstrel]

And people who think Oden is having as good a rookie season as Howard.

No one has claimed that. Why not try debating a position someone has actually taken?

 

[KingSpeed]

No one has claimed that.

Yes. Someone has claimed that. There was someone on this board who quoted me in their signature as saying Howard had a better rookie season that Oden has and then showed per36 stats to prove I was wrong. It wasn' you. And it wasn't someone on this thread. But someone did it. And in this thread, we were debating the validity of per36 stats and I brought up the person who used them against me in his signature.

 

[MARIS61]

Were you the same guy who said Jarrett Jack > Devin Harris? I find it uncharacteristic that the biggest Blazer homer on this board, bordering on lunacy, is so quick to dismiss a legitimate Oden excuse (rookie, injury, foul trouble). Travis Outlaw, your prized godsend is showing promise only now, in his 5th year in the league. If I recall correctly, you called Oden a "serious project"-- so why is it that you, the ultimate Blazer optimist who believes Oden a project, are less able to see the the positives that Oden brings to the table than the rest of us?

Just for the sake of arguement, and nothing to do with Greg (I've always been happy with him), in many ways JJ IS better than Devin (wouldn't want either of them on our team) and Travis has "showed promise" every year since Whitsitt discovered him and produced exceptionally well for a guy his age and experience. As for being able to make ridiculously difficult shots I'd say he's the best the league has EVER seen.

BTW, this thread is about Sergio, the most exciting PG the Blazers have ever had in their lineup.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Yes. Someone has claimed that. There was someone on this board who quoted me in their signature as saying Howard had a better rookie season that Oden has and then showed per36 stats to prove I was wrong. It wasn' you. And it wasn't someone on this thread. But someone did it. And in this thread, we were debating the validity of per36 stats and I brought up the person who used them against me in his signature.

So why don't you just take it up with that person via PMs, because I'm pretty sure he's all alone in the claim that Oden's year has been as good as Howard's

 

[Minstrel]

Yes. Someone has claimed that. There was someone on this board who quoted me in their signature as saying Howard had a better rookie season that Oden has and then showed per36 stats to prove I was wrong. It wasn' you. And it wasn't someone on this thread. But someone did it. And in this thread, we were debating the validity of per36 stats and I brought up the person who used them against me in his signature.

Yes, I know who that is, and he never said Oden had as good a season as Howard. He was pointing out that your claim that Oden is "nothing like" Howard was off-base. Howard had a better rookie season because he stayed on the floor more. Oden has been very similar to Howard when he's been on the floor.

 

[KingSpeed]

So why don't you just take it up with that person via PMs, because I'm pretty sure he's all alone in the claim that Oden's year has been as good as Howard's

I can't remember who it was. I only brought it up because we were discussing per36 stats.