Skeptic finds he now agrees global warming is real (1 Viewer)

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SlyPokerDog

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WASHINGTON (AP) — A prominent physicist and skeptic of global warming spent two years trying to find out if mainstream climate scientists were wrong. In the end, he determined they were right: Temperatures really are rising rapidly.

The study of the world's surface temperatures by Richard Muller was partially bankrolled by a foundation connected to global warming deniers. He pursued long-held skeptic theories in analyzing the data. He was spurred to action because of "Climategate," a British scandal involving hacked emails of scientists.


Yet he found that the land is 1.6 degrees Fahrenheit (1 degree Celsius) warmer than in the 1950s. Those numbers from Muller, who works at the University of California, Berkeley, and Lawrence Berkeley National Lab, match those by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and NASA.


He said he went even further back, studying readings from Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson. His ultimate finding of a warming world, to be presented at a conference Monday, is no different from what mainstream climate scientists have been saying for decades.


What's different, and why everyone from opinion columnists to cable TV 's satirical"The Daily Show" is paying attention is who is behind the study.


One-quarter of the $600,000 to do the research came from the Charles Koch Foundation, whose founder is a major funder of skeptic groups and the conservative tea party movement. The Koch brothers, Charles and David, run a large privately held company involved in oil and other industries, producing sizable greenhouse gas emissions.

Muller's research team carefully examined two chief criticisms by skeptics. One is that weather stations are unreliable; the other is that cities, which create heat islands, were skewing the temperature analysis.


"The skeptics raised valid points and everybody should have been a skeptic two years ago," Muller said in a telephone interview. "And now we have confidence that the temperature rise that had previously been reported had been done without bias."


Muller said that he came into the study "with a proper skepticism," something scientists "should always have. I was somewhat bothered by the fact that there was not enough skepticism" before.


There is no reason now to be a skeptic about steadily increasing temperatures, Muller wrote recently in The Wall Street Journal's editorial pages, a place friendly to climate change skeptics. Muller did not address in his research the cause of global warming. The overwhelming majority of climate scientists say it's man-made from the burning of fossil fuels such as coal and oil. Nor did his study look at ocean warming, future warming and how much of a threat to mankind climate change might be.


Still, Muller said it makes sense to reduce the carbon dioxide created by fossil fuels.


"Greenhouse gases could have a disastrous impact on the world," he said. Still, he contends that threat is not as proven as the Nobel Prize-winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says it is.

On Monday, Muller was taking his results — four separate papers that are not yet published or peer-reviewed, but will be, he says — to a conference in Santa Fe, New Mexico, expected to include many prominent skeptics as well as mainstream scientists.


"Of course he'll be welcome," said Petr Chylek of Los Alamos National Lab, a noted skeptic and the conference organizer. "The purpose of our conference is to bring people with different views on climate together, so they can talk and clarify things."


Shawn Lawrence Otto, author of the book "Fool Me Twice" that criticizes science skeptics, said Muller should expect to be harshly treated by global warming deniers. "Now he's considered a traitor. For the skeptic community, this isn't about data or fact. It's about team sports. He's been traded to the Indians. He's playing for the wrong team now."

And that started on Sunday, when a British newspaper said one of Muller's co-authors, Georgia Tech climate scientist Judith Curry, accused Muller of another Climategate-like scandal and trying to "hide the decline" of recent global temperatures.


The Associated Press contacted Curry on Sunday afternoon and she said in an email that Muller and colleagues "are not hiding any data or otherwise engaging in any scientifically questionable practice."


The Muller "results unambiguously show an increase in surface temperature since 1960," Curry wrote Sunday. She said she disagreed with Muller's public relations efforts and some public comments from Muller about there no longer being a need for skepticism.


Muller's study found that skeptics' concerns about poor weather station quality didn't skew the results of his analysis because temperature increases rose similarly in reliable and unreliable weather stations. He also found that while there is an urban heat island effect making cities warmer, rural areas, which are more abundant, are warming, too.


Among many climate scientists, the reaction was somewhat of a yawn.


"After lots of work he found exactly what was already known and accepted in the climate community," said Jerry North, a Texas A&M University atmospheric sciences professor who headed a National Academy of Sciences climate science review in 2006. "I am hoping their study will have a positive impact. But some folks will never change."

Chris Field, a Carnegie Institution scientist who is chief author of an upcoming intergovernmental climate change report, said Muller's study "may help the world's citizens focus less on whether climate change is real and more on smart options for addressing it."


Some of the most noted scientific skeptics are no longer saying the world isn't warming. Instead, they question how much of it is man-made, view it as less a threat and argue it's too expensive to do something about, Otto said.


Skeptical MIT scientist Richard Lindzen said it is a fact and nothing new that global average temperatures have been rising since 1950, as Muller shows. "It's hard to see how any serious scientist (skeptical, denier or believer — frequently depending on the exact question) will view it otherwise," he wrote in an email.


In a brief email statement, the Koch Foundation noted that Muller's team didn't examine ocean temperature or the cause of warming and said it will continue to fund such research. "The project is ongoing and entering peer review, and we're proud to support this strong, transparent research," said foundation spokeswoman Tonya Mullins.

___
Online:
The Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature site: http://www.berkeleyearth.org/index.php


Santa Fe climate conference: http://bit.ly/rQknVi


http://news.yahoo.com/skeptic-finds-now-agrees-global-warming-real-142616605.html
 
Denny says that Muller is a fox guarding the henhouse, and so the fact that he came to the same conclusion as other scientists despite using different methodology means that he's just another corrupt scientist. It's amazing how deep this conspiracy goes!

barfo
 
Denny says that Muller is a fox guarding the henhouse, and so the fact that he came to the same conclusion as other scientists despite using different methodology means that he's just another corrupt scientist. It's amazing how deep this conspiracy goes!

barfo

Tin foil hat stuff.
 
October used to be too rainy to mow my lawn, but no more.
 
I've always said the world is warming, and has been since the end of the last ice age, if not before. It's not something that you can interpolate because we've had warmer times and cooler times than now.

Key excerpts from the above article:


There is no reason now to be a skeptic about steadily increasing temperatures, Muller wrote recently in The Wall Street Journal's editorial pages, a place friendly to climate change skeptics. Muller did not address in his research the cause of global warming. The overwhelming majority of climate scientists say it's man-made from the burning of fossil fuels such as coal and oil. Nor did his study look at ocean warming, future warming and how much of a threat to mankind climate change might be.

...


Still, he contends that threat is not as proven as the Nobel Prize-winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says it is.
 
BTW, who says this guy is a global warming skeptic? I see no evidence of it searching the Internets.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/j...imate-scientists-caught-lying-cheating-again/

There's also some question about whether Muller is indeed fudging the data:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ved-wrong-accused-hiding-truth-colleague.html

article-2055191-0E974B4300000578-6_634x639.jpg
 
There's also some question about whether Muller is indeed fudging the data:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ved-wrong-accused-hiding-truth-colleague.html
There is also a question to the journalistic integrity of the author of the Mail articl. From Judith Curry's own blog:
To set the record straight, some of the other sentiments attributed to me are not quite right, I will discuss these here.

“Hiding the truth” in the title is definitely misleading, I made it pretty clear that there was uncertainty in the data itself, but the bigger issues are to analyze the data and interpret it. I made it clear that this was not a straightforward and simple thing to do


This graph comparison is so much bullshit on so many levels.
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/judith-curry-opens-mouth-inserts-foot/
uncert.jpg
 
[/B] The overwhelming majority of climate scientists say it's man-made from the burning of fossil fuels such as coal and oil. Nor did his study look at ocean warming, future warming and how much of a threat to mankind climate change might be.


I dont give a %$#& if it's man's fault or not, we need to do everything in our power to change it. The rising of ocean temperatures is killing reef's and effecting the balance of the entire world.
 
There is also a question to the journalistic integrity of the author of the Mail articl. From Judith Curry's own blog:




This graph comparison is so much bullshit on so many levels.
http://tamino.wordpress.com/2011/10/30/judith-curry-opens-mouth-inserts-foot/
uncert.jpg

First, I looked at her blog and she doesn't at all deny the several direct quotes in the interview.

The second link is a personal attack on her, which isn't good science by any stretch. And it contradicts what you imply about her blog post.
 
First, I looked at her blog and she doesn't at all deny the several direct quotes in the interview.
Nor did I imply that. Rose (author of the Mail article) has inserted opinions of his own and worded it to make it appear as the opinions are those of Judith.The whole article misrepresents what Curry actually believes:
Curry said:
My main point was that this is a very good data set, the best we currently have available for land surface temperatures.
Rose said:
She said this affair had to be compared to the notorious ‘Climategate’ scandal two years ago.
Curry said:
I did not say that “the affair had to be compared to the notorious Climategate scandal two years ago,” this is indirectly attributed to me.

The second link is a personal attack on her, which isn't good science by any stretch. And it contradicts what you imply about her blog post.
I agree the tone of the blog was over the top. I linked to it because it had valid arguments regarding the graph from the Mail.
 
So, is Muller a well known sceptic or not? The claim he is might just be the smoking gun.
 
This is mostly a non-story.

The vast majority of so-called climate change "skeptics" agree that there has been measured warming of this planet.

The questions have revolved the extent of that warming, the cause of the warming and potential responses of policymakers, etc.

So, we have a Koch brothers project that wants to take a look at this issue again (is there even warming) due to the unprecedented mis-management of and likely fraud revolving around the Climategate lab.

By spending the time to analyze data NOT from the Climatic Research Unit at University of East Anglia (which had been the key repository), the scandal taint could be removed, so we can get right back to where we were before:

The Earth is warming.
 
I dont give a %$#& if it's man's fault or not, we need to do everything in our power to change it. The rising of ocean temperatures is killing reef's and effecting the balance of the entire world.

If it's not man's fault, is it really affecting the balance of the world, or is it actually just a natural part of the cycle?
 
I find it hard to believe that reefs (the largest living organisms on earth), that have lasted for thousands of years are dying naturally.

To what extent we affect the global changes knowbody knows, but as stewards of the earth I would error on the side of caution. Pollution is Pollution, and you cannot create or destroy matter. IMO it is nieve to think converting trillions of gallons of one substance from the depths of the earth into the air will have no affect on the balance of the planet.
 
You cannot create or destroy matter, but you can create different molecules from a selection of elements.

The obvious questions never really asked here are:

1. Should there be global warming? I say obviously or we'd still be in the ice age, but...

2. What temperature should the earth be? Right now, and if global warming should stop.
 
First of all, they're not calling it "global warming" anymore. It's "climate change" and I don't think there's any doubt that we are seeing significant "climate change" right now. The question is whether man is causing it and if your Prius is really making a difference.
 
I find it hard to believe that reefs (the largest living organisms on earth), that have lasted for thousands of years are dying naturally.

Thousands of years? That is a tiny, tiny blip in the history of the earth and some of the enormous temperature swings that have taken place over the last 4billion years.
 
First of all, they're not calling it "global warming" anymore. It's "climate change" and I don't think there's any doubt that we are seeing significant "climate change" right now. The question is whether man is causing it and if your Prius is really making a difference.

Right, but those who drink the AGW kool aid should be able to answer those two reasoned questions.
 
Thousands of years? That is a tiny, tiny blip in the history of the earth and some of the enormous temperature swings that have taken place over the last 4billion years.

I'm not sure what he's talking about, but there are reefs in Australia wit life or evidence of life 4B+ years old.

But there are people who think the earth is 6000 years old ;-)
 
Happy thought of the day:

None of us are getting out of this thing alive ... no one.
 
I'm not sure what he's talking about, but there are reefs in Australia wit life or evidence of life 4B+ years old.

Exactly what I'm talking about. As an avid scuba diver I've seen the destruction first hand, On the Great Barrier at that. The Oceans cover over 71% of the Earth's surface, to me its an obvious indicator and should be a focal point of analysis in this debate.
 
Exactly what I'm talking about. As an avid scuba diver I've seen the destruction first hand, On the Great Barrier at that. The Oceans cover over 71% of the Earth's surface, to me its an obvious indicator and should be a focal point of analysis in this debate.

I don't find your logic compelling.

Ed O.
 
Largest single organism in the World dying since 1960, the rise of the car across the world. Now 1/3 of all reefs have died across the world since the 60's. I'm still searching, but I've yet to find a more compelling arguement for why the reefs are on an imenent path to destruction by 2050.
 
Largest single organism in the World dying since 1960, the rise of the car across the world. Now 1/3 of all reefs have died across the world since the 60's. I'm still searching, but I've yet to find a more compelling arguement for why the reefs are on an imenent path to destruction by 2050.

They're dying because of the scuba divers and scientists messing with their environment.
 
Reducing fossil fuels (the leading contributor to the so-called greenhouse affect) is the right way to go.....on many different levels.

That said, it would still take decades for the U.S. to eliminate the need/use for said fuels. Therefore, I'm still in favor of the US to increase drilling as to reduce dependence on foreign oil.
 
Largest single organism in the World dying since 1960, the rise of the car across the world. Now 1/3 of all reefs have died across the world since the 60's. I'm still searching, but I've yet to find a more compelling arguement for why the reefs are on an imenent path to destruction by 2050.

I'll throw out a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess). If you forced me to guess, I'd say that with as much garbage and nitrate pollution as we pump into the oceans and the exponential growth of the Earth's human population (and thus an exponential increase in waste) reefs are probably suffering from damage due to pollution.

Sea level rise or warming of the globe might be to blame, but the places where reefs grow are pretty darned warm already and there hasn't been enough appreciable change in sea level in a mere 40 years to significantly alter reef habitat (temp, depth, pressure, UV levels, etc.).

But like I said, I'm just guessing.
 
They're dying because of the scuba divers and scientists messing with their environment.

Those darn scientists! What will they kill next?

barfo
 

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