So, If You're A Christian, You're Then Unfit To Become A Professional Counselor?

[ABM]

http://oregonfamilycouncil.org/blog/2010/08/17/unfit-counsel

When I was looking into marriage counseling, I remember going to this site:

http://therapists.psychologytoday.com/rms/state/OR/Portland.html

If you look at the counselor profiles, it indicates whether they offer gay/lesbian expertise, or not.

That said, why should Ms. Keeton have to "automatically" fit within those (GLBTQ) guidelines in order to receive her counseling degree? I mean, if she just wanted to focus on traditional marriages, etc. as her area of expertise, then so be it. Right?

Obviously, I don't get it.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Diversity, as the libs put it, means every culture or religion except Christianity. Although I know why that is, I'd like to get perspective from some lefties on the board.

 

[julius]

I don't get the point of this thread (nor the stupid comment above mine).

 

[ABM]

I don't get the point of this thread (nor the stupid comment above mine).

The point/question is, why should she be prevented from getting a counseling degree for the simple fact that she's a Christian?

 

[julius]

I don't think being Christian has anything to do with it. Being anti-gay, or bigoted does.

But if it helps promote the right wingers view of how Christians are being subjugated, so be it.

 

[julius]

The point/question is, why should she be prevented from getting a counseling degree for the simple fact that she's a Christian?

My guess is that it's because she wasn't prevented her from getting her degree because she's Christian. She's a bigot, that's why.

Being a counselor, or a therapist, isn't about religious beliefs, it's about understanding the mind and why people do what they do. Thinking that the gays are immoral kind of precludes you from being able to give good advice if someone happens to be gay, or transgender or whatever.

 

[ABM]

My guess is that it's because she wasn't prevented her from getting her degree because she's Christian. She's a bigot, that's why.

Being a counselor, or a therapist, isn't about religious beliefs, it's about understanding the mind and why people do what they do. Thinking that the gays are immoral kind of precludes you from being able to give good advice if someone happens to be gay, or transgender or whatever.

You missed my original point. I related a website in which the therapists relate expertise. Keeton could simply indicate in her profile that her expertise is in traditional man/woman marriages. When I was looking at the different therapists, I immediately bypassed those with gay/lesbian expertise as they didn't interest me.

 

[julius]

You missed my original point. I related a website in which the therapists relate expertise. She could simply indicate in her profile that her expertise is traditional man/woman marriages. When I was looking at the different therapists, I immediately bypassed those with gay/lesbian expertise as they didn't interest me.

There are standards you have to pass to become many things in the business world. She knew the requirements for it before hand (even if she says she didn't).

So again, she wasn't prevented from anything because she was a Christian. If anything, it was because she was stupid about what it takes to become a counselor.

Usually, if you're going to help people, you shouldn't have anti-anything feelings.

Let me ask you, if she had anti-black or anti-chinese or anti-mexican sentiments, would you be bringing this up? I doubt it. Everyone would see her for what she is, tool. And it would have nothing to do with her religious beliefs, nor would she (or anyone else) bring up her religion as an excuse for being a bigot.

Take for example people with special needs. In some cultures, families shun them, or ignore/push them away. If someone came from a culture that shunned handicapped people, and it was their belief that people with special needs shouldn't be born or ignored, wouldn't you think that should preclude them from working in certain occupations (such as teaching, counseling or similar jobs)?

I do, and it wouldn't have anything to do with their religion. Religious beliefs, or your religion, does not mean you can believe whatever you want and not have consequences.

 

[ABM]

There are standards you have to pass to become many things in the business world. She knew the requirements for it before hand (even if she says she didn't).

So again, she wasn't prevented from anything because she was a Christian. If anything, it was because she was stupid about what it takes to become a counselor.

Usually, if you're going to help people, you shouldn't have anti-anything feelings.

Let me ask you, if she had anti-black or anti-chinese or anti-mexican sentiments, would you be bringing this up? I doubt it. Everyone would see her for what she is, tool. And it would have nothing to do with her religious beliefs, nor would she (or anyone else) bring up her religion as an excuse for being a bigot.

Take for example people with special needs. In some cultures, families shun them, or ignore/push them away. If someone came from a culture that shunned handicapped people, and it was their belief that people with special needs shouldn't be born or ignored, wouldn't you think that should preclude them from working in certain occupations (such as teaching, counseling or similar jobs)?

I do, and it wouldn't have anything to do with their religion. Religious beliefs, or your religion, does not mean you can believe whatever you want and not have consequences.

Not following you. There are plenty of Christians who are professional counselors out there. They all went through the "programs" and have degrees to show for it.

 

[jlprk]

a counseling student at Augusta State University in Georgia was told that her Christian BELIEFS were “unethical” and “incompatible with prevailing views” of the counseling profession...Jennifer Keeton, age 23, was told to stop SHARING her beliefs with others and to change her beliefs if she hoped to graduate from the University’s counseling program.

That's from your first source, I didn't get to the second.

Translation:
Beliefs = refusal to participate and cooperate in the college major, whose requirements are defined by national accreditation agencies.

Sharing = pushing her dogma onto classmates, trying to dominate class discussions, trying to form cliques opposing the professors.

She sounds like a firebrand who's trying to make revolution at her college. Those who did this at the U. of California 40 years ago got bad grades from conservative professors, influencing them to drop out. I saw it happen, so I wrote moderate papers. That's one reason the country got more conservative as the 70s went on. (The main reasons: Women's Lib and fear of the CIA.)

So she should drop out, get real jobs with poor people, return, finish the degree, and generally learn to compromise with a system she doesn't like. Like the rest of us.

 

[ABM]

....So she should drop out, get real jobs with poor people, return, finish the degree, and generally learn to compromise with a system she doesn't like. Like the rest of us.

Hence, my last sentence in the op.

 

[ABM]

OK, I'm now officially jumping off her bandwagon.

http://chronicle.augusta.com/latest-news/2010-10-05/klan-rally-support-asu-student-keeton

 

[barfo]

Not following you. There are plenty of Christians who are professional counselors out there. They all went through the "programs" and have degrees to show for it.

Therefore, the problem here must be with this particular student, and not with her religion, no?

barfo

 

[MickZagger]

That's from your first source, I didn't get to the second.

Translation:
Beliefs = refusal to participate and cooperate in the college major, whose requirements are defined by national accreditation agencies.

Sharing = pushing her dogma onto classmates, trying to dominate class discussions, trying to form cliques opposing the professors.

She sounds like a firebrand who's trying to make revolution at her college. Those who did this at the U. of California 40 years ago got bad grades from conservative professors, influencing them to drop out. I saw it happen, so I wrote moderate papers. That's one reason the country got more conservative as the 70s went on. (The main reasons: Women's Lib and fear of the CIA.)

So she should drop out, get real jobs with poor people, return, finish the degree, and generally learn to compromise with a system she doesn't like. Like the rest of us.

 

[ABM]

Therefore, the problem here must be with this particular student, and not with her religion, no?

barfo

Depends. This is the south we're talkin' 'bout.

 

[julius]

Not following you. There are plenty of Christians who are professional counselors out there. They all went through the "programs" and have degrees to show for it.

Which kind of defeats what your thread is about, doesn't it?

Her christianity had nothing to do with it. Her bigoted values do.

 

[ABM]

Which kind of defeats what your thread is about, doesn't it?

Her christianity had nothing to do with it. Her bigoted values do.

Hard to say.

According to University officials, her Christian beliefs make it impossible for Jennifer “to be a multi-culturally competent counselor, particularly with regard to working with gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and queer/questioning (GLBTQ) populations.”

 

[tlongII]

Hard to say.

I'm assuming you realize you're quoting from a Christian website...

 

[julius]

Hard to say.

What Tlong said.

 

[ABM]

I'm assuming you realize you're quoting from a Christian website...

Yep, and I'm also assuming they were accurate.

 

[julius]

Yep, and I'm also assuming they were accurate.

You shouldn't. Because unless you want to admit that Christian values are bigoted, I'd think you'd want to admit they're professing a slight bias.

 

[tlongII]

Yep, and I'm also assuming they were accurate.

Hard to say.

 

[ABM]

Besides, what does gay or lesbianism have to do with anything at the school level? Sensitivity is sensitivity. Her students could be sleeping with farm animals for that matter.....and shouldn't make a bit of difference as to how she helps them cope with school-related issues.

I mean, if Bobby came into her office and told her he couldn't stop fantasizing about Johnny, how might she counsel him any differently than had he come into her office and told her he couldn't quit fantasizing abut Sally? I really don't get where the gender preference plays into the matter....from a school counseling perspective/context.

But, then again, I'm just one of them old-school conservatives.

 

[ABM]

Hard to say.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...claims-school-bias-on-christian-views/?page=2

 

[julius]

your link (in post 24) really doesn't shed any light on the subject matter.

Besides, what does gay or lesbianism have to do with anything at the school level? Sensitivity is sensitivity. Her students could be sleeping with farm animals for that matter.....and shouldn't make a bit of difference as to how she helps them cope with school-related issues.

I don't know if you intentionally did it, because blazerprophet put you up to it to get the response he wanted, but why did you feel the need to talk about sleeping with farm animals?

I mean, if Bobby came into her office and told her he couldn't stop fantasizing about Johnny, how might she counsel him any differently than had he come into her office and told her he couldn't quit fantasizing abut Sally? I really don't get where the gender preference plays into the matter....from a school counseling perspective/context.

if she's professing anti-gay sentiment, how can't you see how that would be a conflict of interests? It'd be no different then a teacher in training, professing that he or she shouldn't have to teach gays, or deal with handicapped people.

But, then again, I'm just one of them old-school conservatives.

She, and her lawsuit (and people who are supporting her) are just using religion as an excuse to play the victim card, instead of realizing she's a bigoted tool.

I really wish christian people (almost always white conservative christians too) would stop using their religion as the reason why people dislike their bigoted, ignorant, xenophobic, homophobic and racist views.

I'm not saying you are expressing those views, but you seem to keep wanting to paint her as a victim of religious persecution, when she's a victim of her own stupidity and intolerance.

 

[ABM]

....you seem to keep wanting to paint her as a victim of religious persecution, when she's a victim of her own stupidity and intolerance.

To my knowledge, she never once said she's intolerant of anything. IMO, If anyone is being intolerant, it's ASU.

Sexual preference, sleeping with aliens, or the like, really have no business even being discussed in our school counseling programs. I mean, do they??

 

[Haakzilla]

...she looks like a snotty attention craving prissy girl looking to become a "reality star" from this whole ordeal [I would also bet that she has participated in at least one beauty pageant within the last 5 years]! She also seems very sheltered and naive. Sad story.

[video=youtube;VdXrLwkwnpc]

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Therefore, the problem here must be with this particular student, and not with her religion, no?

barfo

Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. But why this:

Re-Educating Away the Christian Faith

The plan mandated for Keeton requires her to take steps to change her beliefs through additional assignments and additional “diversity sensitivity training."

I never thought the day would come in this country where Christians were forced to go to places to "change their beliefs". We are now becoming no better than Nazi Germany or Stalin Russia.

Wow. 100% religious intolerance to the point of forcing people to change their faith. Never, never, never thought we'd see this.

 

[tlongII]

Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. But why this:

Re-Educating Away the Christian Faith

The plan mandated for Keeton requires her to take steps to change her beliefs through additional assignments and additional “diversity sensitivity training."

I never thought the day would come in this country where Christians were forced to go to places to "change their beliefs". We are now becoming no better than Nazi Germany or Stalin Russia.

Wow. 100% religious intolerance to the point of forcing people to change their faith. Never, never, never thought we'd see this.

BP, what you're quoting there is the statement from the Christian website. I personally doubt its veracity.

 

[ABM]

BP, what you're quoting there is the statement from the Christian website. I personally doubt its veracity.

Not so fast...........

http://oldsite.alliancedefensefund.org/userdocs/KeetonComplaint.pdf