So, We're Leaving Iraq

[Natebishop3]

If it took 60 years of the same insurrection bullshit we're dealing with now to do it, would you be ok with that? Do you want my 6 year old son to eventually fight over there? How about my eventual grandchildren?

Japan and Germany actually wanted our help. We didn't have a 9 year insurrection fight with either country. At some point you have to realize there are just some things American occupation just can't fix. Whatever we still owe Iraq, we'll never really be able to repay.

If Iraq is torn apart because Obama follows the will of the people of the United States, well, that's not crass pandering. That's democracy for you. This war has not had the support of most Americans for some time now. It's about time that the politicians who serve us notice this.

Iraq wanted our help too. Many citizens from that country were overjoyed when we removed Saddam. Much of the insurrection was from outside the country. We were fighting insurgents from all over the Middle East, so obviously it's a different situation than Germany, but there was a Nazi resistance movement after the Allies took control of Berlin. It wasn't all white flags and rose petals after the Third Reich fell.

Of course most Americans are against the war. We're getting nothing out of it. There's no benefit to this cost. There's no "feel good" story to keep the American public motivated. That doesn't change the fact that we created this problem and there's a very good chance that things will completely fall apart once we leave. It is what it is.

 

[mook]

If Iraq still wants our help, how come they aren't willing to agree to the same basic prosecution immunity agreement that Germany and Japan did?

Their unwillingness to abide by this requirement is entirely understandable, given the history. But it was their call. We told them we were willing to stay on if our soldiers were only accountable to the US military courts. We don't want our soldiers serving in a country where they can be arrested for not following local law.

What would you have us do? If an American soldier is accused of rape, are you ok with him being tried by an Iraqi jury? What if the trial happens to take place a few blocks from Abu Ghraib? Think he'll get a fair shake? That's a life sentence. I say that soldier is fucked, no matter what the circumstances are.

I fully support not putting members of our volunteer military in such a position.

 

[Natebishop3]

If Iraq still wants our help, how come they aren't willing to agree to the same basic prosecution immunity agreement that Germany and Japan did?

Their unwillingness to abide by this requirement is entirely understandable, given the history. But it was their call. We told them we were willing to stay on if our soldiers were only accountable to the US military courts. We don't want our soldiers serving in a country where they can be arrested for not following local law.

What would you have us do? If an American soldier is accused of rape, are you ok with him being tried by an Iraqi jury? What if the trial happens to take place a few blocks from Abu Ghraib? Think he'll get a fair shake? That's a life sentence. I say that soldier is fucked, no matter what the circumstances are.

I fully support not putting members of our volunteer military in such a position.

If they aren't going along with the program, we obviously didn't do a good enough job of putting in a puppet government.

 

[BrianFromWA]

What history are you talking about. I can't think of a situation ever where the Status of Forces Agreement b/w the US and another country allowed them to try our military members for criminal acts. Even in the Okinawa rape case in 1995 it took the President basically giving the sailor and marines up to the government personally for them to be tried. That's NOT happening in Iraq.

 

[Haakzilla]

 

[barfo]

What history are you talking about.

If you mean mook, I think he mean the Abu Ghraib history.

barfo

 

[mook]

What history are you talking about. I can't think of a situation ever where the Status of Forces Agreement b/w the US and another country allowed them to try our military members for criminal acts. Even in the Okinawa rape case in 1995 it took the President basically giving the sailor and marines up to the government personally for them to be tried. That's NOT happening in Iraq.

Not now. But it will happen if we decided to stay. Which is why we are pulling out completely instead of leaving in a small contingent like even the Obama administration wanted.

Any politician who tells you we should remain in Iraq needs to explain what they would do in this situation.

 

[barfo]

Life springs eternal
On a dusty market street
Not that I care at all
I spent the best part of my losing streak
In an Army Jeep
For what I can't recall
Oh I'm banging on my TV set
And I check the odds
And I place my bet
I pour a drink
And I pull the blind
And I wonder what I'll find

[Chorus]
I'm Leaving Iraq
Lights so bright
Palm sweat, blackops
On a Saturday night
Leaving I-raq
Leaving for good, for good
I'm leaving for good
I'm leaving for good

Used to be I could drive up to
Basra for the night
Find some suicide bomber
To demonstrate his might
But these days it seems
Nowhere is far enough away
So I'm leaving Iraq today

[Chorus]

I'm standing in the middle of the desert
Waiting for my ship to come in
But now no joker, no jack, no king
Can take this loser hand
And make it win

[Chorus]

I quit my job as a gunner
At the US Embassy
Doing patrols until one or two
Such a muddy line between
The things you want
And the things you have to do

[Chorus]

I'm leaving Iraq
And I won't be back
No I won't be back
Not this time

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

Not now. But it will happen if we decided to stay. Which is why we are pulling out completely instead of leaving in a small contingent like even the Obama administration wanted.

Any politician who tells you we should remain in Iraq needs to explain what they would do in this situation.

So that's great, we trained a bunch of their troops, gave them weapons and technology, and now they're kicking us out with a high probability that they will end up our enemies in the next ten years. Awesome.

 

[barfo]

So that's great, we trained a bunch of their troops, gave them weapons and technology, and now they're kicking us out with a high probability that they will end up our enemies in the next ten years. Awesome.

Those are the kind of questions you ask before you go in.

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

Those are the kind of questions you ask before you go in.

barfo

Hey, if it were up to me I'd pull all our troops back into the US and say "fuck the world."

 

[barfo]

Hey, if it were up to me I'd pull all our troops back into the US and say "fuck the world."

Ron Paul's your boy then.

From my point of view, we fucked up severely going into Iraq, and there's no getting away from that. I appreciate your thought that we need to make things right, but I just don't think we can. Humpty Dumpty has fallen and he can't get up.

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

Ron Paul's your boy then.

From my point of view, we fucked up severely going into Iraq, and there's no getting away from that. I appreciate your thought that we need to make things right, but I just don't think we can. Humpty Dumpty has fallen and he can't get up.

barfo

It will be interesting to see what happens in places like Egypt, Libya, and Syria. Will democracy grow on its own or will another religious regime or dictator take over? Will Iraq be torn apart with the US out? The Middle East and North Africa are places I definitely would not want to visit right now.

 

[ABM]

Humpty Dumpty has fallen and he can't get up.

barfo

He's faking it. Time to claim benefits.

 

[MARIS61]

So that's great, we trained a bunch of their troops, gave them weapons and technology, and now they're kicking us out with a high probability that they will end up our enemies in the next ten years. Awesome.

Same old same old.

Reagan and Bush1 did the same thing for (to?) them. Anyone remember how that turned out?

 

[Natebishop3]

Same old same old.

Reagan and Bush1 did the same thing for (to?) them. Anyone remember how that turned out?

We have been training indigenous troops and supplying them since.... forever. We obviously did it in Vietnam, and I know for a fact that we've been doing it in South America and Africa since the 70s. It predates Bush1 and Reagan.

 

[MARIS61]

We have been training indigenous troops and supplying them since.... forever. We obviously did it in Vietnam, and I know for a fact that we've been doing it in South America and Africa since the 70s. It predates Bush1 and Reagan.

Just meant Iraq.