Sorta OT: Another reason I am glad KP is not our GM and Olshey is

[Charcoal Filtered]

Too bad he is with my Pacers though.

While there were some that were quick to give him credit for Indiana's success last year, I saw a team that was largely already in place. He was given a clean cap last offseason and blew it.

His moves:

Jones and Collison for the right to overpay for Ian Mahinmi.

No one else was going to give the guy 16M over 4, but he does that as well as trades two guys that contributed to the playoff run in 2012.

Gives Gerald Green and DJ Augustin ill advised contracts.

Augustin lasted one year and he paid 3.5M to find out what the rest of the league already knew. The guy is a horrible defender. It would have been nice to see that money spent on a player that could have been used for the Miami series like Kirk Hinrich.

Green had bounced around with a few teams and somehow convinced KP to give him 10.5M over three. He once again showed that his game is more suited for Developmental League slam dunk competitions. Played little for the Miami series.

The cap space in these three transactions could have been used to make a bid on Luis Scola. The cost for picking up Scola now instead of last year? Their 2012 pick Miles Plumlee as well as a lottery protected 2014 1st.

Olshey did not make a major splash the last couple of years and the record on the court was not as productive as KP's . I still give him more credit since he used his assets better. IMO the guys that are earning their money are Ainge, Morey, Buford, etc. Put KP in either the second tier or third tier of GM's.

 

[julius]

You dare question the greatness that is KP!?

He was wrongly fired! He saved this franchise! HE MADE NO MISTAKES!

These aren't the trades you're looking for...

 

[BigGameDamian]

Too bad he is with my Pacers though.

While there were some that were quick to give him credit for Indiana's success last year, I saw a team that was largely already in place. He was given a clean cap last offseason and blew it.

His moves:

Jones and Collison for the right to overpay for Ian Mahinmi.

No one else was going to give the guy 16M over 4, but he does that as well as trades two guys that contributed to the playoff run in 2012.

Gives Gerald Green and DJ Augustin ill advised contracts.

Augustin lasted one year and he paid 3.5M to find out what the rest of the league already knew. The guy is a horrible defender. It would have been nice to see that money spent on a player that could have been used for the Miami series like Kirk Hinrich.

Green had bounced around with a few teams and somehow convinced KP to give him 10.5M over three. He once again showed that his game is more suited for Developmental League slam dunk competitions. Played little for the Miami series.

The cap space in these three transactions could have been used to make a bid on Luis Scola. The cost for picking up Scola now instead of last year? Their 2012 pick Miles Plumlee as well as a lottery protected 2014 1st.

Olshey did not make a major splash the last couple of years and the record on the court was not as productive as KP's . I still give him more credit since he used his assets better. IMO the guys that are earning their money are Ainge, Morey, Buford, etc. Put KP in either the second tier or third tier of GM's.

Does it really Matter? Paul Allen is the man who runs this team. I hate to say it but I wouldn't be surprised if Olshey is gone in 3 years or less.

 

[Freshtown]

I never really considered these moves as a whole, but looking at them, you're right. Pretty awful IMO. More and more it's seeming like he had a few good drafts (batum +roy/aldridge), but kind of sucked at everything else. From the attempted hedo 50million dollar signing to drafting rudy, freeland, claver, babbit, bayless (All busts) he has never really done anything that well. Not going to blame him for oden but will blame him for not firing the training staff and getting a better staff. He kept nate way too long, gave camby 20mil when realistically we should have been trying to bottom out a year or two ago, etc. dre miller signing wasn't bad though.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

dre miller signing wasn't bad though.

What did he give up in order to sign Dre though?

He traded McBob and Jack to get rid of their higher salaries in order to create cap space, along with not using the MLE for a couple of seasons. He also let Raef's deal expire. More than likely Miller would not have had any other offers higher than the full MLE that year and we could have still had those assets.

Hindsight is 20/20, but further mismanagement of assets for me was:

1. Not including Miles in the Randolph deal. I think him and Penn tried to get cute to show how big of cap genius Tom was and it blew up in their faces.

2. Signing Webster to a long term deal, then picking up the options on Blake and Outlaw. We got little in return for Webster and Blake/Outlaw were traded for a player entirely too old for the young Blazers to take advantage of in Camby. Cap space could have been used to either make a better offer for Milsap that would not have been matched. We could have also made an offer to David Lee that would not have been matched since NY had sold their fans that they were getting Lebron.

 

[OneLifeToLive]

Too bad he is with my Pacers though.

While there were some that were quick to give him credit for Indiana's success last year, I saw a team that was largely already in place. He was given a clean cap last offseason and blew it.

His moves:

Jones and Collison for the right to overpay for Ian Mahinmi.

No one else was going to give the guy 16M over 4, but he does that as well as trades two guys that contributed to the playoff run in 2012.

Gives Gerald Green and DJ Augustin ill advised contracts.

Augustin lasted one year and he paid 3.5M to find out what the rest of the league already knew. The guy is a horrible defender. It would have been nice to see that money spent on a player that could have been used for the Miami series like Kirk Hinrich.

Green had bounced around with a few teams and somehow convinced KP to give him 10.5M over three. He once again showed that his game is more suited for Developmental League slam dunk competitions. Played little for the Miami series.

The cap space in these three transactions could have been used to make a bid on Luis Scola. The cost for picking up Scola now instead of last year? Their 2012 pick Miles Plumlee as well as a lottery protected 2014 1st.

Olshey did not make a major splash the last couple of years and the record on the court was not as productive as KP's . I still give him more credit since he used his assets better. IMO the guys that are earning their money are Ainge, Morey, Buford, etc. Put KP in either the second tier or third tier of GM's.

I think KP deserves very little to no credit for the Pacer Roster. I think you have to give it to Bird and Morway.

 

[maxiep]

KP right now is in a different spot as a GM. He's trying to get the final pieces to compete against MIA and the Nyets in the East. I think the Scola move was a great one, short term.

I thought his tenure here was much more to the good than the bad, and I'll always wish him well.

 

[PapaG]

So the GM of a team that took Miami to 7 games is a turd, and a team that hasn't been to the playoffs since he was fired, and who people think should "rebuild" again by trading a Pritchard draft pick, is on the right track.

Gotta love Portland fans. Bring back Chode!!!

 

[julius]

So the GM of a team that took Miami to 7 games is a turd, and a team that hasn't been to the playoffs since he was fired, and who people think should "rebuild" again by trading a Pritchard draft pick, is on the right track.

Gotta love Portland fans. Bring back Chode!!!

KP didn't build the Pacers.

 

[PapaG]

KP didn't build the Pacers.

He hasn't destroyed them, either. Paul Allen is the real GM, anyhow. It's the GM's job to hold PA's hand and be his bestie, as well as Dert Klodes' bestie.

 

[julius]

He hasn't destroyed them, either. Paul Allen is the real GM, anyhow. It's the GM's job to hold PA's hand and be his bestie, as well as Dert Klodes' bestie.

whats that got to do with the time and day?

 

[PapaG]

whats that got to do with the time and day?

This thread is about why the OP is happy that KP isn't the Blazers' GM, isn't it? The Blazers are on their 3rd GM post-KP, by my count, and many posters want to rebuild the roster. I'd take a team that makes the playoffs over a bunch of whiners wanting to trade the team's only All-Star for draft picks and rubbish.

Anybody could trade LMA for lesser players and middle first-round picks, and then call the next few years of 25 wins "rebuilding" until Allen fires them, too.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

This thread is about why the OP is happy that KP isn't the Blazers' GM, isn't it? The Blazers are on their 3rd GM post-KP, by my count, and many posters want to rebuild the roster. I'd take a team that makes the playoffs over a bunch of whiners wanting to trade the team's only All-Star for draft picks and rubbish.

Anybody could trade LMA for lesser players and middle first-round picks, and then call the next few years of 25 wins "rebuilding" until Allen fires them, too.

But KP didn't make the Pacers good, so that doesn't matter in this discussion. This is about the moves KP has made, and they haven't been good ones.

 

[julius]

This thread is about why the OP is happy that KP isn't the Blazers' GM, isn't it? The Blazers are on their 3rd GM post-KP, by my count, and many posters want to rebuild the roster. I'd take a team that makes the playoffs over a bunch of whiners wanting to trade the team's only All-Star for draft picks and rubbish.

Anybody could trade LMA for lesser players and middle first-round picks, and then call the next few years of 25 wins "rebuilding" until Allen fires them, too.

Again, whats that got to do with anything?

Did anything the OP say ring not true?

 

[PapaG]

But KP didn't make the Pacers good, so that doesn't matter in this discussion. This is about the moves KP has made, and they haven't been good ones.

I don't understand why the OP is happy to have Olshey over KP. Last time I checked, KP's Portland team was in the playoffs 3 straight times, yet each subsequent GM has ruined the franchise. Meanwhile, since KP became the Pacer GM, they have improved on the court, and are title contenders even after losing Danny Granger for an entire season.

Seems like an odd thread to me, given the known facts.

 

[PapaG]

Again, whats that got to do with anything?

Did anything the OP say ring not true?

The OP gave an opinion. I offered facts challenging that opinion the pertain to the two franchises involved in this thread. Why do you care?

Over the last 10+ years, the KP era was easily the most successful for the Blazers, and this may also may turn out to be the case in Indy. Maybe the guy is just lucky? That doesn't really matter to me.

 

[BlazerBeav]

I don't understand why the OP is happy to have Olshey over KP. Last time I checked, KP's Portland team was in the playoffs 3 straight times, yet each subsequent GM has ruined the franchise. Meanwhile, since KP became the Pacer GM, they have improved on the court, and are title contenders even after losing Danny Granger for an entire season.

Seems like an odd thread to me, given the known facts.

KP's teams were in the playoffs due to his drafting of temporarily great but in the end damaged goods in Brandon Roy. No move by management since has downgraded the franchise - the loss of Roy dropped us from the playoffs. Don't play dumb.

 

[PapaG]

KP's teams were in the playoffs due to his drafting of temporarily great but in the end damaged goods in Brandon Roy. No move by management since has downgraded the franchise - the loss of Roy dropped us from the playoffs. Don't play dumb.

I'd argue that a rotation of Felton/Matthews/LMA/Gerald Wallace/Camby/Crawford should have easily been a playoff team on talent alone. Instead, that team was blown up by Paul Allen at the All-Star break in 2011, and has yet to recover.

 

[MAS RipCity]

I'd argue that a rotation of Felton/Matthews/LMA/Gerald Wallace/Camby/Crawford should have easily been a playoff team on talent alone. Instead, that team was blown up by Paul Allen at the All-Star break in 2011, and has yet to recover.

No.

Felton is nothing more than an average, run of the mill point guard...and that's on a good day.

Matthews is Matthews. A solid but unspectacular wing who is tenacious on D but one-dimensional on O.

2011-12 Gerald Wallace was a disaster. Remember how bad his home and away splits were to start the year? Dude's athleticism completely vanished, along with his ability to finish easy lay-ups at the rim.

Camby really aged in a hurry. It's hard to believe the "Mar-cus Cam-by" game was over a season removed during that time. He would put back every offensive rebound with an off-balance attempt, constantly jack up mid-range shots with little success, and by all accounts, gave up. As did Felton, Wallace, Crawford amongst others.

Crawford pouted when he had to play point guard. His shot selection was God-awful. And didn't seem like a good locker room guy at all when it hit the fan.

Also, the 8th seed that year was the Utah Jazz who went 36-30, for an .545 winning percentage, roughly the equivalent to winning 45 games over the course of an 82 game season. We won 28, or 42.4 percent.

Even "on paper", that team isn't a lock for the playoffs. Throw in the piss-poor attitudes of a lot of former Blazers on that squad and you have a recipe for disaster.

Finally, Thank God that team was blown the eff up. I haven't disliked a Blazer squad any more than that bunch. They came into the season with lofty expectations, started out of the gates with guns blazing, only to quiver on the ground at the first sight of adversity. Sorry for the tangent and rant, but that 11-12 team will go down as my least fv. Blazer squad ever. At least with the 04-05 bunch, you knew what you're going to get. I just have never seen a team quit like that...that Eastern Conference road trip right before Nate got fired was down right embarrassing, losing by 30+ each night. Very thankful for the trade that netted us Lillard and a fresh start!

Oh, and yes I agree, glad we have Olshey over KP. KP had one shining moment (drafting Roy and Aldridge), but pretty much screwed the pooch on everything else, including but not limited to RLEC, not trading Rudy while his value was high, every other draft pick, and "letting the cake bake."

 

[Draco]

Yeah it worked out great to blow up that 11-12 team, got us Lillard. KP has made a lot of terrible moves since getting the big job with the Pacers. I agree with much of what the OP said. KP wasn't GM for the Roy/LaMarcus draft either, he got the job right after and in hindsight didn't accomplish much in his tenure. It appeared the team was on a better track at the time when we had young talents in Sergio, Rudy, Bayless, Martell, Outlaw but none of those guys were used to bring any value onto the roster.

If there wasn't an amnesty provision KP would've been regarded as one of the worst Blazer GMs. Just imagine if Roys max contract was still on our book for 2 more seasons! KP is skilled at talking with the media and fans, it was nice having such a positive person. Olshey is pretty good at that as well. Olshey seems to be making a lot of solid moves, he gets along great with agents and other teams GMs. Pritchard couldn't seem to close any deal it felt like he was blacklisted. Olshey has been able to sign guys like Wright because of his goodwill history, and made friends with the Pacers front office with the easy Hibbert process. Maybe that is why we got Thomas Robinson instead of other teams that I imagine had similar offers. The book is still being written on Neil, and I hope Paul Allen doesn't force any terrible deals, but I'm pretty optimistic right now.

 

[Draco]

In a sense I'm kind of glad the 11-12 team stunk as bad as they did; it let Paul Allen and management know drastic changes were needed. If that team had got the 6th seed and taken a series to 7 games would we have considered re-signing Gerald, Felton, Crawford, and Camby to long-term deals? That is a scary thought!

 

[PapaG]

Yeah it worked out great to blow up that 11-12 team, got us Lillard. KP has made a lot of terrible moves since getting the big job with the Pacers. I agree with much of what the OP said. KP wasn't GM for the Roy/LaMarcus draft either, he got the job right after and in hindsight didn't accomplish much in his tenure. It appeared the team was on a better track at the time when we had young talents in Sergio, Rudy, Bayless, Martell, Outlaw but none of those guys were used to bring any value onto the roster.

If there wasn't an amnesty provision KP would've been regarded as one of the worst Blazer GMs. Just imagine if Roys max contract was still on our book for 2 more seasons! KP is skilled at talking with the media and fans, it was nice having such a positive person. Olshey is pretty good at that as well. Olshey seems to be making a lot of solid moves, he gets along great with agents and other teams GMs. Pritchard couldn't seem to close any deal it felt like he was blacklisted. Olshey has been able to sign guys like Wright because of his goodwill history, and made friends with the Pacers front office with the easy Hibbert process. Maybe that is why we got Thomas Robinson instead of other teams that I imagine had similar offers. The book is still being written on Neil, and I hope Paul Allen doesn't force any terrible deals, but I'm pretty optimistic right now.

Yes, the Roy/LMA canard of 2006. Clearly KP didn't want those guys, which is why Steve Patterson/John Nash were fired over KP, or something like that. If only PA had listened to PatterNash, who have gone on to such great success in the NBA since those days and have such great jobs in the league.

Meanwhile, KP is the GM of a team contending for a title, and is being groomed as a future Director of Basketball Operations by Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird.

 

[PapaG]

In a sense I'm kind of glad the 11-12 team stunk as bad as they did; it let Paul Allen and management know drastic changes were needed. If that team had got the 6th seed and taken a series to 7 games would we have considered re-signing Gerald, Felton, Crawford, and Camby to long-term deals? That is a scary thought!

Yeah, it's been shits and grins since then, hasn't it? Great times as a fan of a team that struggles to stay in contention, and even that isn't enough. People are nowclamoring for LMA to be traded for table scraps because he might leave in two years, as if that's the way to build a team. It's like people don't realize how rare it is to have All-Star players in Portland.

 

[NOVoodoo]

But KP didn't make the Pacers good, so that doesn't matter in this discussion. This is about the moves KP has made, and they haven't been good ones.

I'm not defending KP in the least, because ya'll are the experts, but that Scola trade seems like a steal for the Pacers... even if that's a case of a blind squirrel finding a nut.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

PapaG, if you are going to just read the title then I am not going to repeat what I have already said. I would love to hear what moves he can be credited with in the current Pacer success.

NOVoodoo, they could have gotten Scola last year by increasing the amnesty offer instead of it costing essentially two #1's for Phoenix to accept Green's horrible deal.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I'm not defending KP in the least, because ya'll are the experts, but that Scola trade seems like a steal for the Pacers... even if that's a case of a blind squirrel finding a nut.

Plumlee and a first for Scola seems like a steal to you? Feels like an overpay to me.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Plumlee and a first for Scola seems like a steal to you? Feels like an overpay to me.

Not for a team that was one game away from the finals. That trade is a rare one that makes sense to both sides. (Remember: a first for Indy is probably in the mid-to-high 20s. You know, the kind that are shopped desperately on draft night because teams don't want to be committed to a three year contract for a player who probably won't stick.)

And it's funny - KP gets flack both ways: last year "Plumlee was a HUGE reach - what a waste of a pick!"
This year: "You're giving up PLUMLEE?"

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Not for a team that was one game away from the finals. That trade is a rare one that makes sense to both sides. (Remember: a first for Indy is probably in the mid-to-high 20s. You know, the kind that are shopped desperately on draft night because teams don't want to be committed to a three year contract for a player who probably won't stick.)

And it's funny - KP gets flack both ways: last year "Plumlee was a HUGE reach - what a waste of a pick!"
This year: "You're giving up PLUMLEE?"

Different philosophies, I guess. I like the idea of having a range of different ages, development levels, and skill sets on a team. With West already in the fold, I prefer Plumlee to Scola.

And I can't speak for whichever people were calling Plumlee a huge reach, but I've always been a fan of athletic 7-footers who've spent four years getting good coaching. But then again, what do I know.

 

[Draco]

NOVoodoo, they could have gotten Scola last year by increasing the amnesty offer instead of it costing essentially two #1's for Phoenix to accept Green's horrible deal.

Yeah that makes sense at first glance, but I thought about it a bit more. I can’t remember when the claims were put in for Scola, did the Pacers still have cap space available at that point? If they did have cap space, perhaps they put a sizeable bid in for Scola but lost out by just a few $$. The bids are blind so you don’t want to overpay if you’re the only bidder, they had no idea how much Phoenix was bidding. I’m not going to fault them terribly much for losing the amnesty bid on Scola. But KP shouldn’t get credit for much of the Pacers success to date, he inherited that team. What value they get for Granger and what they do with his cap space in the next year could really determine the direction of that team.

 

[PapaG]

Not for a team that was one game away from the finals. That trade is a rare one that makes sense to both sides. (Remember: a first for Indy is probably in the mid-to-high 20s. You know, the kind that are shopped desperately on draft night because teams don't want to be committed to a three year contract for a player who probably won't stick.)

And it's funny - KP gets flack both ways: last year "Plumlee was a HUGE reach - what a waste of a pick!"
This year: "You're giving up PLUMLEE?"

It's easy to be a basketball expert when you're allowed to play both sides. LOL