Starting PG - Will a change be made?

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DG3

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Yes, it would be nice to have a point guard who can shoot the three. But isn't it more important that he creates easy buckets for the rest of the team? We need Miller on the floor 35 mins a game to control the flow of the offense. I agree he hasn't been playing very well, but he has only been playing spot minutes an isn't able to get into a rhythm. It's obvious that our offense runs smoother when he is on the court AND he has been the only one that has gotten Greg some easy points. Why do you think Greg scored so much more in the pre-season? Because he was playing on the "second unit" with Miller. Let's play Miller the majority of the game to run the offense and then bring Bayless off the bench to keep the pressure on the defense. Blake doesn't seem to be applying much pressure...

Last night's stats:
"Starting PG" Blake - 3 Ast 1 TO Miller - 11 Ast 0 TO

And the ONLY thing worse than playing Blake over Miller, is playing Blake WITH Miller.
 
I am a firm believer in starting your best 5 guys. I think Miller should be starting.

Edit: But I also think that Miller shouldn't just be shooting three's, when they kick it out, someone needs to put motion into the offense, so miller can hit the cutters.
 
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Miller should be starting. Everyone gets that except the coach, and he knows best :lol:
 
I have a really REALLY bad feeling that there may not be any changes till its too late. I dont want to come accross as the typical 5 games into the season overreactor fan but this is clearly not working and I dont get a "well, its a developing work in progress" kind of vibe. I like all of our players and would hate to see some of then go but its time for a consolidation trade. The temptation of having 12 good players leads to undefined roles, pissed players who arent playing and 3 guard line-ups. Its time to get it down to 8-9 great players with CLEARLY defines roles. If it wouldnt fuck their heads so much I would be tempted to tell the players, "Look, changes are coming, either play together as a team and pick up the defense or you will be part of the conslidation trade."
 
I have a really REALLY bad feeling that there may not be any changes till its too late. I dont want to come accross as the typical 5 games into the season overreactor fan but this is clearly not working and I dont get a "well, its a developing work in progress" kind of vibe. I like all of our players and would hate to see some of then go but its time for a consolidation trade. The temptation of having 12 good players leads to undefined roles, pissed players who arent playing and 3 guard line-ups. Its time to get it down to 8-9 great players with CLEARLY defines roles. If it wouldnt fuck their heads so much I would be tempted to tell the players, "Look, changes are coming, either play together as a team and pick up the defense or you will be part of the conslidation trade."




Good one.

I think I'd rather see Nate go to the players and say "Listen, I have 3 guys on the bench that will all give more effort than you guys. Turn it around now, or switch places with them."
 
Good one.

I think I'd rather see Nate go to the players and say "Listen, I have 3 guys on the bench that will all give more effort than you guys. Turn it around now, or switch places with them."


He could say that, but no one would believe him. Isn't that like "the starters will be determined by their play on the court". We all know that's not REALLY the case.
 
Good one.

I think I'd rather see Nate go to the players and say "Listen, I have 3 guys on the bench that will all give more effort than you guys. Turn it around now, or switch places with them."

I'd rather he just skip that step and proceed straight to the replacement. The problem is, like I have said in the past, in order to get Nate to quit playing some guys, you have to trade them off the roster, and he won't quit playing them until you don't give him the choice.
 
Yes, it would be nice to have a point guard who can shoot the three. But isn't it more important that he creates easy buckets for the rest of the team? We need Miller on the floor 35 mins a game to control the flow of the offense. I agree he hasn't been playing very well, but he has only been playing spot minutes an isn't able to get into a rhythm. It's obvious that our offense runs smoother when he is on the court AND he has been the only one that has gotten Greg some easy points. Why do you think Greg scored so much more in the pre-season? Because he was playing on the "second unit" with Miller. Let's play Miller the majority of the game to run the offense and then bring Bayless off the bench to keep the pressure on the defense. Blake doesn't seem to be applying much pressure...

Last night's stats:
"Starting PG" Blake - 3 Ast 1 TO Miller - 11 Ast 0 TO

And the ONLY thing worse than playing Blake over Miller, is playing Blake WITH Miller.

I think Miller should be starting and Oden should play the first period, till half time until he gets 3 fouls. Then sit him out all of the 3rd and play him all 4th quarter until he fouls out.

I think Oden has no flow. He is in and out and can't get into rhythm. I think the sooner you bring in Miller as the facilitator, the better.
 
I'm kind of scared now. Oden does look better with Miller on the floor, which means McMillan might bench Oden and start Pryz.
 
I'm kind of scared now. Oden does look better with Miller on the floor, which means McMillan might bench Oden and start Pryz.

Yea me and LittleAlex were talking about that very thing last night. It gives me the worst feeling in my gut ever about this season.
 
I think Miller should be starting and Oden should play the first period, till half time until he gets 3 fouls. Then sit him out all of the 3rd and play him all 4th quarter until he fouls out.

I think Oden has no flow. He is in and out and can't get into rhythm. I think the sooner you bring in Miller as the facilitator, the better.

This is huge for not just Oden but the whole team. You cant get flow with automatic timed substitutions. And if you do it gets killed when that sub is made. Its time to play who works the best till they need a break or get into foul trouble. If that means a consolidation trade then so be it. The current method isnt going to just get better. It relies on EVERY player maximizing their playing EVERY night. You cant make that guarantee.
 
I'm kind of scared now. Oden does look better with Miller on the floor, which means McMillan might bench Oden and start Pryz.

Yup, I bet hasoos 10 bucks this would happen for the Spurs game. I got that sinking feeling when Joel started the second half.

Portland went on a mini-run then took a crap. I am guessing Nate will look at that mini-run and decide the difference was Joel.


He may very well be right in the short term. Long term, if Oden never gets comfortable as an offensive option Portland is going to be an also-ran for the next 6 years. Better to suffer through now then drag it out for years and years.
 
The problem was not our starting PG. We were 25-15 with the starting PG and we were up at the end of his stint in the previous game as well. The problem is with the backup PG - the team seems to completely lose it's composure when he is in. Spacing goes to shit as well. I would seriously look at JB instead of Miller for a game or two.
 
Long term, if Oden never gets comfortable as an offensive option Portland is going to be an also-ran for the next 6 years. Better to suffer through now then drag it out for years and years.

The ONLY way Oden is going to start to excel offensively is if he has a competent point guard who can get him some easy buckets and put him in position to succeed. Miller has shown he can/will do that and Oden was starting to excel offensively in the pre-season.

We can't just put Oden on an island with the ball and expect him to create for himself.
 
Oden, if we want him to become good offensively, can't just get his points off putbacks and postups. They need to start giving him good looks, drive to the lane and dish it off, play the pick and roll.
 
The problem was not our starting PG. We were 25-15 with the starting PG and we were up at the end of his stint in the previous game as well. The problem is with the backup PG - the team seems to completely lose it's composure when he is in. Spacing goes to shit as well. I would seriously look at JB instead of Miller for a game or two.

Lets get a couple of things straight here. The Blazers were up early because Aldridge and Roy put down 14 points apiece early. At one point, Aldridge and Roy had scored 28 points and the rest of the Blazers had scored 5. Blake had one 3 pointer.

The lead melted away when Nate played that unit I have been harping about since pre season. The unit with Blake and Miller at guard, Roy at SF, one big and Outlaw at PF. That unit has bit balls all year long, and Nate still hasn't figured it out. That unit flat out sucks. For some reason, he seems hung on the idea that a running unit has to be small. He couldn't be more far from the truth. It needs speed, and the ability to think on the fly. Steve Blake is one of the worst fast break players on the team. He is a poor decision maker on the break, he is a poor finisher in the paint, and he is poor at spacing the floor in fast break situations. His role should be Steve Kerr, space the floor and take the open jumper.
 
Lets get a couple of things straight here. The Blazers were up early because Aldridge and Roy put down 14 points apiece early. At one point, Aldridge and Roy had scored 28 points and the rest of the Blazers had scored 5. Blake had one 3 pointer.

The lead melted away when Nate played that unit I have been harping about since pre season. The unit with Blake and Miller at guard, Roy at SF, one big and Outlaw at PF. That unit has bit balls all year long, and Nate still hasn't figured it out. That unit flat out sucks. For some reason, he seems hung on the idea that a running unit has to be small. He couldn't be more far from the truth. It needs speed, and the ability to think on the fly. Steve Blake is one of the worst fast break players on the team. He is a poor decision maker on the break, he is a poor finisher in the paint, and he is poor at spacing the floor in fast break situations. His role should be Steve Kerr, space the floor and take the open jumper.

Instead of Blake or Miller, you add Fernandez and you got a stud line-up. I would rather see this one. Blake, Fernandez, Roy, Aldridge and Oden. Aldridge and Oden are big enough to make up for the lack of size in the back court. But all 4 positions can create their own shot, well maybe not Oden right now. :D And Blake would flourish on this type of line-up, since anyone that comes off him to double or trap, will be victim to his wide open "Three"
 
Instead of Blake or Miller, you add Fernandez and you got a stud line-up. I would rather see this one. Blake, Fernandez, Roy, Aldridge and Oden. Aldridge and Oden are big enough to make up for the lack of size in the back court. But all 4 positions can create their own shot, well maybe not Oden right now. :D And Blake would flourish on this type of line-up, since anyone that comes off him to double or trap, will be victim to his wide open "Three"

What? Play a SG at SG? Are you completely crazy? Why would you want to play a guy at his natural position? Crazy Talk!!!!:tsktsk:
 
Instead of Blake or Miller, you add Fernandez and you got a stud line-up. I would rather see this one. Blake, Fernandez, Roy, Aldridge and Oden. Aldridge and Oden are big enough to make up for the lack of size in the back court. But all 4 positions can create their own shot, well maybe not Oden right now. :D And Blake would flourish on this type of line-up, since anyone that comes off him to double or trap, will be victim to his wide open "Three"

I don't see how Webster is that much different than Fernandez other than slightly more ball handeling.:dunno:
 
The problem was not our starting PG. We were 25-15 with the starting PG and we were up at the end of his stint in the previous game as well. The problem is with the backup PG - the team seems to completely lose it's composure when he is in. Spacing goes to shit as well. I would seriously look at JB instead of Miller for a game or two.

It couldn't be that the +/- is related to the rest of the team, and that the starters with Blake make more points than the benchers with Miller?
 
I don't see how Webster is that much different than Fernandez other than slightly more ball handeling.:dunno:

I love Webster and he has earned the starting nod. I am saying, instead of Nate's stupid Blake, Miller and Roy combo. It's replacing that possible line-up.
 
The "who starts at point guard" is starting to appear increasingly meaningless to me, there are deeper more systemic problems than who is on the court bringing the ball up to start the game. For me it starts with our starting shooting guard; there's really something off about Brandon, and the way he's playing with his teammates. Sure his assist numbers are about where you expect them to be given his first three years in the league, but there's a weird vibe I get from him when he's playing seems to indicate that he's thinking he has to go out and completely dominate a game, which is probably rooted in a sense of responsibility to live up to his big extension as much as anything, but what comes across through the screen is that he trusts his teammates less than he ever has before. There have always been a steady diet of high pick and rolls and clear outs when he's handling the ball, but he seems to be trying to do too much by himself, and is not performing very well at all off the ball.

As for starting point guard, be that Miller, Blake or Bayless it really doesn't matter to me at this point. Whomever it is clearly going to have to play off the ball because Brandon is so ball dominant, the other reason I see it not mattering is that Nate doesn't seem to want to run an offense that blends the talents of all the players that are out on the floor; I see a lot of 1 on 5 and 1 on 1 and sometimes even 2 on 5 but most of the time guys are standing around waiting to catch and shoot, presumably from kickouts they think will be coming their way, but there's no movement, there's no guess work for a defender about what is coming, all defenses currently have to do is just overplay Brandon forcing him to make off-balance passes to players that end up taking a lot of shots at the end of the clock or contested and/or often fading backward. The net result is that we take a lot of low percentage shots, don't get to the free throw line and we never fast break so there are no easy buckets.

I'd like to think that there's some magic personnel formula that Nate just hasn't hit on yet and when he does get that combo figured out it will start clicking, but I don't see this group really coming together any time soon, the pieces don't quite fit; there's too much replication, too many guys unsure of what their roles are, and still too many guys who are young enough in their careers that they probably aren't satisfied with being pigeonholed into being a role player. If this thing is going to be salvaged for this season, KP is going to have to break his pattern and actually pull off a mid-season trade, but more likely he'll wait until the draft and try to move some guys (if at all) and hope for some sweetheart deal to fall in his lap (which won't). The other alternative is to fire Nate and hope he can find a coach capable of blending all these jump shooters together, but even that probably won't work unless a slightly different mix of players is put together.

:sigh:
 
The "who starts at point guard" is starting to appear increasingly meaningless to me, there are deeper more systemic problems than who is on the court bringing the ball up to start the game. For me it starts with our starting shooting guard; there's really something off about Brandon, and the way he's playing with his teammates. Sure his assist numbers are about where you expect them to be given his first three years in the league, but there's a weird vibe I get from him when he's playing seems to indicate that he's thinking he has to go out and completely dominate a game, which is probably rooted in a sense of responsibility to live up to his big extension as much as anything, but what comes across through the screen is that he trusts his teammates less than he ever has before. There have always been a steady diet of high pick and rolls and clear outs when he's handling the ball, but he seems to be trying to do too much by himself, and is not performing very well at all off the ball.

As for starting point guard, be that Miller, Blake or Bayless it really doesn't matter to me at this point. Whomever it is clearly going to have to play off the ball because Brandon is so ball dominant, the other reason I see it not mattering is that Nate doesn't seem to want to run an offense that blends the talents of all the players that are out on the floor; I see a lot of 1 on 5 and 1 on 1 and sometimes even 2 on 5 but most of the time guys are standing around waiting to catch and shoot, presumably from kickouts they think will be coming their way, but there's no movement, there's no guess work for a defender about what is coming, all defenses currently have to do is just overplay Brandon forcing him to make off-balance passes to players that end up taking a lot of shots at the end of the clock or contested and/or often fading backward. The net result is that we take a lot of low percentage shots, don't get to the free throw line and we never fast break so there are no easy buckets.

I'd like to think that there's some magic personnel formula that Nate just hasn't hit on yet and when he does get that combo figured out it will start clicking, but I don't see this group really coming together any time soon, the pieces don't quite fit; there's too much replication, too many guys unsure of what their roles are, and still too many guys who are young enough in their careers that they probably aren't satisfied with being pigeonholed into being a role player. If this thing is going to be salvaged for this season, KP is going to have to break his pattern and actually pull off a mid-season trade, but more likely he'll wait until the draft and try to move some guys (if at all) and hope for some sweetheart deal to fall in his lap (which won't). The other alternative is to fire Nate and hope he can find a coach capable of blending all these jump shooters together, but even that probably won't work unless a slightly different mix of players is put together.

:sigh:

+1:cheers:
 

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