Swhowalter

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I have no idea how they score off Jimenez tonight.
 
Buck is very fitting a Mgr. in Baltimore...

Is it just me, or does Buck's presence in the dugout, and his looks remind ya' a bit of Ol' Earl Weaver...?

He sure does bring back memories of Weaver....altho' Buck doesn't live and die by the 3 run HR...!
 
I don't think there is a Yankee Fan anywhere who does not respect Buck Showalter, and most will agree that akin to the old Jerry Reed Hubbard Tune, Torre got the gold mine, Buck got the shaft. But today 06/21/2014 we find Joe Girardi is the manager and thus far has kept his up to lately under performing charges afloat. Just had a feeling that Mac and Carlos were going to start kicking some butt during this home stand.
 
Yankeefan5545 said:
I don't think there is a Yankee Fan anywhere who does not respect Buck Showalter, and most will agree that akin to the old Jerry Reed Hubbard Tune, Torre got the gold mine, Buck got the shaft. But today 06/21/2014 we find Joe Girardi is the manager and thus far has kept his up to lately under performing charges afloat. Just had a feeling that Mac and Carlos were going to start kicking some butt during this home stand.
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...if not for that walk off double by Edgar Martinez in '95, Showalter might still be coaching the Yanx.
 
Buck ran into bad luck with the 1994 strike and how the 1995 series with Seattle turned out. Fortunately it worked out well for the Yankees.
 
Messiah717 said:
Buck ran into bad luck with the 1994 strike and how the 1995 series with Seattle turned out. Fortunately it worked out well for the Yankees.
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I honestly wonder if '96 or '98-'00 would've been any different with Showalter rather than Torre.... or even '97 & '01 for that matter... I honestly don't think it would... I think Buck would've won 4 of 6 too...
 
No, Buck would not have been as successful. Don't forget, he was a different animal back then...total control freak. It took Torre's management style to 'bring out' the full potential of the core 4 while also expertly handling veterans like Bernie, Paul, etc. People did not like playing for Buck the SOB. He is far more Torre like today.

Baseball smarts get you so far, but managers have to know how to manage people.
 
totus44 said:
No, Buck would not have been as successful. Don't forget, he was a different animal back then...total control freak. It took Torre's management style to 'bring out' the full potential of the core 4 while also expertly handling veterans like Bernie, Paul, etc. People did not like playing for Buck the SOB. He is far more Torre like today.

Baseball smarts get you so far, but managers have to know how to manage people.
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...Torre was given the keys to a Porche designed by Bob Watson. He got lucky. IMO, the Yanx won those titles in spite of Torre, not because of him.

...who didn't like Showalter?...He got screwed in '94 because of the strike, and in '95 because of the reason I already mentioned.
 
What Torre had going for him was the perfect demeanor to deal with his players and the media. His players respected him for what he was and what he accomplished as a player. The media loved him for giving them everything they wanted. The focus was on Torre and the players were able to play.
 
..IMO, there's just no way to say with any certainty that Buck would not have done just as well.

...The Boss wanted Buck to fire 2 of his coaches after the '95 PS loss, Buck refused, and was then fired. Torre never distinguished himself as a manager before...he got lucky when the Yanx hired him.
 
Buck got screwed over just as bad, maybe even worse, in Phoenix....

Had the D'Backs not of waited til July 26th, of 2000 to acquire Schilling, and waited til "Post Buck" - 01, to acquire Mark Grace, Reggie Sanders, ..... Buck would of rode that Cactus Gravy Train....

Then again, consider the GM source, Joe Garagiola, .... Joe should of stayed in the Broadcasting Booth...!
 
yankeesince59 said:
..IMO, there's just no way to say with any certainty that Buck would not have done just as well.

...The Boss wanted Buck to fire 2 of his coaches after the '95 PS loss, Buck refused, and was then fired. Torre never distinguished himself as a manager before...he got lucky when the Yanx hired him.
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Pretty much my point... Buck built the team & pissed off Steinbrenner & was forced out.... Torre never had success before....
 
Hammerojustice said:
Pretty much my point... Buck built the team & pissed off Steinbrenner & was forced out.... Torre never had success before....
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In order to accept Joe, in NY, 1st-
It was harder than hell to excuse Joe for losing a 8 game lead in Atlanta to the Bums in early 80s, in what, the MONTH OF September.....L.A. swept Atlanta in the last 2 Series of the same year in September, a hard hard way to go down.....

But I do respect the man quit a bit....love his book too, The Yankee Years, some good shit in that book...

That coming from a Catcher, 3rd bagger, MVP, I once admired on the playing field....!
 
Sorry guys, at that time Buck was an exceptional baseball person, but his mgmt style wasn't going to work with those players, NY media or the Boss. Torre had the players respect.
 
totus44 said:
Sorry guys, at that time Buck was an exceptional baseball person, but his mgmt style wasn't going to work with those players, NY media or the Boss. Torre had the players respect.
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Whether one likes Torre or not, ya' gotta respect the Man, regardless. Hell if I could get over the F'king Bums undoing of Torre's Braves, 8 games up on Sept. 1st, only to lose the NL Pennant to those damn Bums, then I sure as hell more than accepted him in NY.

Joe's laid back style of Managing was exactly what the Dr. Ordered. Joe T, was like Prozac and Valium combined to King George. He quit firing Mgr's. like he changed his underwear, a couple times a year....

"The Yankee Years", IMO is a damn good read, and as much explains how Torre's laid back approach benefited the team. Yet, it was also his undoing, but then hell when ya' got those Series Rings, and more appearances, that to me is sufficient to be a Torre Fan....The book also explains how he developed his laid back style, and why...! More than justifiable to me, in my blind eyes...!

More-so I love the job he's doing now as the Commish's Gopher, (or whatever title ya' wanta' give him)..... I'd personally like to see Torre as our next Commish, IF he'd take the Job, that is.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...Torre was given the keys to a Porche designed by Bob Watson. He got lucky. IMO, the Yanx won those titles in spite of Torre, not because of him.

...who didn't like Showalter?...He got screwed in '94 because of the strike, and in '95 because of the reason I already mentioned.
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Actually it was designed by Gene Michael who was responsible for drafting the core 4.
 
...splitting hairs...the 1996 team was designed by Bob Watson who was GM from 1995-1998.

...and Michael had nothing to do with the 1996 additions of Tino Martinez, Jeff Nelson, David Cone, Tim Raines, Mariano Duncan, Dwight Gooden, Nick Johnson, Grahan Lloyd, Charlie Hayes, Bob Wickman, Luis Soho, Cecil Fielder, et al.
 
Let's not forget who the players credit the most. It was Torre that gave Mo the confidence and time to adjust to the closer role...for example.
 
...by that time Mo had already proven he was a much better reliever than a starter...when Wetteland became a FA in 1997, giving the job to Mo was a no-brainer.
 
totus44 said:
Let's not forget who the players credit the most. It was Torre that gave Mo the confidence and time to adjust to the closer role...for example.
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I also think it was Torre that had enough faith in both Jeter & Posada to give them there full time positions. Where they both excelled. I really can't say how well the core 4 would have progressed without Torre's guidence.
 
...did the core 4 digress when Torre left?...and from what I remember, about 90% of the posters at that time wanted Torre gone. Now all of a sudden, he's God-like again...lol.
 
Hell compared to what we have now Bob Uecker would be god like. And seriously by the time Torre left the core 4 were pretty much already established wouldn't you think?
 
...yes, the core 4 would all have been total failures without Torre...give me a fucking break.

...yes, Girardi has ruined countless careers of young players already...rolls eyes. Has he been given ANYTHING to work with that can compare to Mo, Jeter, Posada, and Pettitte?...didn't think so. And do you have any idea where the term "clueless Joe" came from?
 
yankeesince59 said:
...did the core 4 digress when Torre left?...and from what I remember, about 90% of the posters at that time wanted Torre gone. Now all of a sudden, he's God-like again...lol.
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Every coach has a shelf life regardless of how successful. After 2004 it honestly was time.
 
Messiah717 said:
Every coach has a shelf life regardless of how successful. After 2004 it honestly was time.
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..."no matter how successful"?...really?...that makes absolutely no sense....and exactly how long is this supposed "shelf life" regardless of how successful they are?

...Torre's last 4 years were not "successful". You don't think the PS failures of '01 and '04 had anything to do with him being let go?
 
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yankeesince59 said:
..."no matter how successful"?...really?...that makes absolutely no sense....and exactly how long is this supposed "shelf life" regardless of how successful they are?

...Torre's last 4 years were not "successful".
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I have to agree that Torre's last few years pretty much sucked & come to think of it, so has Girardi's. You see, I can be fair.
 
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