The Brandon Roy conundrum

[Rastapopoulos]

Brandon Roy is our best player, hands down. He's amazingly talented and versatile, young, humble, clutch, all that. He's certainly a top ten player in the league and moving closer to top 5.

BUT...

Is he the player we want to structure our entire team around? Do we want to be picking the PG solely by how well he will work with Roy? I hear this all the time - "we don't need a typical PG because of Roy - we need someone who can play off the ball". Well, that's Blake. Blake is great at that. He defends pretty well, brings up the ball fine and shoots open threes at a high percentage. And I HATE that style. Our offense is SLOW and BORING, and as we saw against Houston, a team without one of its star players (who at his best was probably better than Roy will ever be) just managed to shut us down. As a result, we were forced to have Brandon Roy dominate the ball, and it just didn't work. It was like what Orlando did to Cleveland - forced them to put the ball in James's hands and just go one-on-five.

I say: we DON'T build the team round Roy's strengths. He's versatile, right? He can adapt. In fact, last year I remember he worked on being better off the ball. I say we target a PG who's best for the team. Somebody who can actually break down a defense AND (before everybody says "Bayless!") get everybody involved. MOST IMPORTANTLY (and I know I harp on about this, but somebody has to piss into the wind) GET ODEN INVOLVED. Yes, Oden has a primitive post game. So what? He'll never get better unless you spend time getting him confident and involved. He would KILL for Dwight Howard's touches (and look at how Howard bitches about even them!). And furthermore, Oden would already be great at the pick and roll. Remember everybody's fave pre-injury summer league highlight where Sergio runs the pick and roll and Oden throws down a MONSTER slam? More of that, please. Is there anyone other than the much-maligned Sergio who can run the pick and roll on this team?

I am alarmed by the suggestions that the team is targeting Curry. Tempering this somewhat is the feeling that if that's out there, then they probably aren't. Also there are rumours that Curry is actually a gifted passer. But Curry sounds like a pick made with Roy in mind ("Curry can play off the ball!") rather than Oden or the rest of the team.

Of course, if we could put Sergio and Rudy into a blender and combine their skills, all of this would be moot, because we'd have the perfect other guard.

Anyway: what do you think? Is Roy the guy we build round to the extent of picking PGs solely with him in mind, or is he just the most important piece, but someone better moved off the ball just like (sound of dead horse being flogged) Larry Brown moving Iverson off the ball, or even Jordan being moved off the ball even after averaging a triple double as the Bulls PG? (And I know the Bulls had shooters at the PG spot, but Jordan still wasn't their primary ball-handler, Pippen was.)

 

[Crimson the Cat]

I think you bring in players that can play well with both Roy and Oden. You can't construct the team without considering the adverse effects a player would have on either one. That's my take at least.

 

[SteelBlaze1]

I think the league is shifting to having players that can play multiple positions (Gordon, Hedo, Odom, Roy, etc.) and not the prototypical PG, SG, SF...

Having Roy is a real luxury and we should add players that help him (and Oden for that matter) be better players. We need a PG that can run a team (Blake is boring I agree) and one that can hit the 3 when needed. I think more than anything, we need a PG with a high BB-IQ and the skills to play the position.

With that said, I know Roy can play PG and SG and will work with whoever we bring in. I think Bayless brings that combo guard/toughness/drive the lane mentality that we need. I just think we need to also have a great starting PG with the qualities I listed above. Who is that?...I am not sure if that is Nash, Kidd, Sessions, others?

Of course, my two favorites are CP3 and Parker, but that will probably not happen.

 

[hypnosmurf]

I'm sure the point of Bayless and Oden working out together this summer is so they can build chemistry.

 

[SteelBlaze1]

I'm sure the point of Bayless and Oden working out together this summer is so they can build chemistry.

I agree...I think Bayless will be here for awhile if him and Oden hit it off and Bayless can really turn into that PG we need/want.

 

[maybeso]

Brandon Roy is our best player, hands down. He's amazingly talented and versatile, young, humble, clutch, all that. He's certainly a top ten player in the league and moving closer to top 5.

BUT...

Anyway: what do you think? Is Roy the guy we build round to the extent of picking PGs solely with him in mind, or is he just the most important piece, but someone better moved off the ball just like (sound of dead horse being flogged) Larry Brown moving Iverson off the ball, or even Jordan being moved off the ball even after averaging a triple double as the Bulls PG? (And I know the Bulls had shooters at the PG spot, but Jordan still wasn't their primary ball-handler, Pippen was.)

Purely as a way of helping answer your question, ask yourself if you would trade Roy for Paul.

FWIW,
Maybeso

 

[Stevenson]

Damnint. I am stuck with Jerry West on my team. Do I really want to build around him? What a conundrum!

 

[Shooter]

You're thinking too much, Rastapopoulos. We've got a great young team and a great young superstar in Roy. I would submit that it's all falling into place, and all we have to do is sit back and enjoy the ride.

In short, I trust KP. The guy lives and breathes this team 24 hours a day, and you can be sure he's going to get the right pieces around Roy and Aldridge and Oden. It's a no-brainer.

No team has to be built a certain way. What you need is a lot of talented guys who get along with each other, and magic can happen. That's what we've got in Portland.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Damnint. I am stuck with Jerry West on my team. Do I really want to build around him? What a conundrum!

1. Brandon Roy's great - but he's not Jerry West.
2. It's more like "I'm stuck with Jerry West and Bill Russell - whom should I build around?"

 

[Minstrel]

You structure things around your best players. Your system, your supporting players, etc. The NBA is superstar-driven, moreso than any other team sport. The vast majority of titles are won by teams carried by their 2-3 best players. So, yes, you do structure things around Roy (and, to a lesser extent, Aldridge). In the future, things may be structured around Oden, if he becomes a big-time player.

Also, I don't think saying that the team doesn't need a conventional point guard alongside Roy is an issue of limiting yourself in order to "build around Roy," as you're implying. I would say that it's taking advantage of Roy's talent to unlimit yourself. You can still drop a conventional point guard alongside Roy, if that's what you have. But you don't have to have one. Roy expands the universe of guards that can be played in the starting backcourt beside him. If you had a Rip Hamilton or Reggie Miller (forgetting about the talent drop), you'd be locked into a conventional point guard as the other starting guard. There'd be no other option (unless you happen to have Pippen, Bird, Grant Hill or LeBron at small forward). Roy allows the team to look at a much larger group of guards, and looking at a larger pool gives Portland a better chance at finding another star.

So, I would say that aspect of "building around Roy" is an advantage, an exploiting of Roy's talent to the betterment of the team, rather than a draw-back.

 

[Da_O]

It's better to play off of Roy's strength's than to force him into something he's not good at. Most everyone here thinks that bringing in a PG like Kidd, Miller, or Sessions would be a huge improvement, even if most of those guys don't have an outside shot.

 

[SteelBlaze1]

With the comments about Roy opening up the options at guard, does that mean that Portland might actually move up in the draft and take a SG that can play 1 and 2? Harden, Curry, others?

I have read about some SG's the Blazers have looked at and I keep wondering why?? We have Roy and Rudy...why even look at SG's, but maybe you guys are right about Roy being so good at 1 and 2 that we open up the options rather than limit ourselves to just getting a PG.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I say we target a PG who's best for the team. Somebody who can actually break down a defense AND (before everybody says "Bayless!") get everybody involved.

Bayless! 4.3 assists per 36 minutes is not bad, and it will get better as he gets better, more comfortable and all that jazz. And especially if he plays more with first unit players (including Oden). To me, if he gets good chemistry with Oden on entry passes and/or lobs, I'd be ecstatic. And yes I think building around Roy is a good idea.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I don't think you build around Roy exclusively, but on the other hand you'd be a fool to try and pair him up with a high usage player that is completely ineffective without the ball in his hands. Ideally players should compliment each other across the entire roster, but you give greater weight to your core players and especially your all-star, all-nba players -- if LMA and Oden show that they are this caliber you give them greater weight when their game dictates it. If you keep trying to reinvent how players should play and the roles and styles they execute it's a bit like a college student constantly changing their major because they just can't quite make up their mind.

I think the key to look for in any backcourt mate you pair up with Brandon is versatility, with a premium placed on an ability to shoot the ball off the catch, this doesn't mean they can't be a pure point guard and it doesn't mean that Brandon can or can't move off the ball more it just means you need players that fit the core, not necessarily trying to fit the core to new players.

 

[mgb]

It's better to play off of Roy's strength's than to force him into something he's not good at. Most everyone here thinks that bringing in a PG like Kidd, Miller, or Sessions would be a huge improvement, even if most of those guys don't have an outside shot.

As long as a pg has a consistent mid range jumper that should be good enough to keep the D honest.

 

[oldmangrouch]

1. Brandon Roy's great - but he's not Jerry West.
2. It's more like "I'm stuck with Jerry West and Bill Russell - whom should I build around?"

Roy has better chance of being compared with West than Oden has of ever being (seriously) compared to Russell.

At this point, I wouldn't build around Oden any more than I would build around Rudy. Roy is our best player, and he is the guy you build around until/unless someone surpasses him.

 

[KingSpeed]

1. Brandon Roy's great - but he's not Jerry West.
2. It's more like "I'm stuck with Jerry West and Bill Russell - whom should I build around?"

Ummm... Greg Oden has to step up and at least be 20% of what Russell was before you make that comparison. And he didn't need "touches" to block shots and rebound. You can compare Roy to West, sure. But Oden to Russell?? They're not even close.

 

[KingSpeed]

Roy has better chance of being compared with West than Oden has of ever being (seriously) compared to Russell.

At this point, I wouldn't build around Oden any more than I would build around Rudy. Roy is our best player, and he is the guy you build around until/unless someone surpasses him.

Exactly.

 

[PapaG]

Portland has waited since the days of Drexler to find a franchise/All-Star player, and now people are wondering about building around him?

 

[RoyToy]

Roy has better chance of being compared with West than Oden has of ever being (seriously) compared to Russell.

At this point, I wouldn't build around Oden any more than I would build around Rudy. Roy is our best player, and he is the guy you build around until/unless someone surpasses him.

As great as Roy is, Oden is still the key to a championship/hopeful dynasty.

 

[PapaG]

As great as Roy is, Oden is still the key to a championship/hopeful dynasty.

Was Bynum the key to the Lakers this year?

 

[RoyToy]

Does that have anything to do with Portland? Two different teams.

 

[PapaG]

Does that have anything to do with Portland? Two different teams.

Wondering what makes Oden the key to a championship, that's all. Was Kendrick Perkins the key to Boston?

 

[RoyToy]

Again, the Celtics have nothing to do with Portland, just like the Lakers. Those two teams are built differently with different players and play a different style of basketball.

If you want to make that type of comparison, use the Magic, who wouldn't even have sniffed the finals w/o Howard. They're a 3pt shooting team(just like the Blazers), but Howard averaged 20+ppg and does it all in the paint to balance things out. The Blazers don't have that currently and it really limits the offense and makes it a little too predictable.

If Oden doesn't become that dominant force(for the record I think he will), then it will be much more difficult to win the championship. Much more.

 

[PapaG]

Again, the Celtics have nothing to do with Portland, just like the Lakers. Those two teams are built differently with different players and play a different style of basketball.

If you want to make that type of comparison, use the Magic, who wouldn't even have sniffed the finals w/o Howard. They're a 3pt shooting team(just like the Blazers), but Howard averaged 20+ppg and does it all in the paint to balance things out. The Blazers don't have that currently and it really limits the offense and makes it a little too predictable.

If Oden doesn't become that dominant force(for the record I think he will), then it will be much more difficult to win the championship. Much more.

That's a good assessment and thanks for expanding on your post. I may not necessarily agree with it all, mainly because Orlando doesn't have a Brandon Roy who consistently gets to the rim and finishes, but I do agree that Howard was absolutely the primary reason that Orlando made the Finals. Whether Oden can be that player, and whether the team can adjust its style if/when it happens, still remains uncertain to me.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Again, the Celtics have nothing to do with Portland, just like the Lakers. Those two teams are built differently with different players and play a different style of basketball.

If you want to make that type of comparison, use the Magic, who wouldn't even have sniffed the finals w/o Howard. They're a 3pt shooting team(just like the Blazers), but Howard averaged 20+ppg and does it all in the paint to balance things out. The Blazers don't have that currently and it really limits the offense and makes it a little too predictable.

If Oden doesn't become that dominant force(for the record I think he will), then it will be much more difficult to win the championship. Much more.

Actually, the Lakers is a better comparison. The Magic? We won 54 games with Oden sucking and only playing part of the season. Would the Magic win much with Howard recovering from microfracture AND having a midseason set-back AND it being his first year? Of course not.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I'm bumping this thread, because you could argue that what we're seeing now is Roy fighting against the inevitable transition.

 

[magnifier661]

Brandon Roy is our best player, hands down. He's amazingly talented and versatile, young, humble, clutch, all that. He's certainly a top ten player in the league and moving closer to top 5.

BUT...

Is he the player we want to structure our entire team around? Do we want to be picking the PG solely by how well he will work with Roy? I hear this all the time - "we don't need a typical PG because of Roy - we need someone who can play off the ball". Well, that's Blake. Blake is great at that. He defends pretty well, brings up the ball fine and shoots open threes at a high percentage. And I HATE that style. Our offense is SLOW and BORING, and as we saw against Houston, a team without one of its star players (who at his best was probably better than Roy will ever be) just managed to shut us down. As a result, we were forced to have Brandon Roy dominate the ball, and it just didn't work. It was like what Orlando did to Cleveland - forced them to put the ball in James's hands and just go one-on-five.

I say: we DON'T build the team round Roy's strengths. He's versatile, right? He can adapt. In fact, last year I remember he worked on being better off the ball. I say we target a PG who's best for the team. Somebody who can actually break down a defense AND (before everybody says "Bayless!") get everybody involved. MOST IMPORTANTLY (and I know I harp on about this, but somebody has to piss into the wind) GET ODEN INVOLVED. Yes, Oden has a primitive post game. So what? He'll never get better unless you spend time getting him confident and involved. He would KILL for Dwight Howard's touches (and look at how Howard bitches about even them!). And furthermore, Oden would already be great at the pick and roll. Remember everybody's fave pre-injury summer league highlight where Sergio runs the pick and roll and Oden throws down a MONSTER slam? More of that, please. Is there anyone other than the much-maligned Sergio who can run the pick and roll on this team?

I am alarmed by the suggestions that the team is targeting Curry. Tempering this somewhat is the feeling that if that's out there, then they probably aren't. Also there are rumours that Curry is actually a gifted passer. But Curry sounds like a pick made with Roy in mind ("Curry can play off the ball!") rather than Oden or the rest of the team.

Of course, if we could put Sergio and Rudy into a blender and combine their skills, all of this would be moot, because we'd have the perfect other guard.

Anyway: what do you think? Is Roy the guy we build round to the extent of picking PGs solely with him in mind, or is he just the most important piece, but someone better moved off the ball just like (sound of dead horse being flogged) Larry Brown moving Iverson off the ball, or even Jordan being moved off the ball even after averaging a triple double as the Bulls PG? (And I know the Bulls had shooters at the PG spot, but Jordan still wasn't their primary ball-handler, Pippen was.)

Roy did play with Zach being the main focus on the offensive end and he seemed to do fine in that role. In fact, actually looked better than he does this season. I also think him losing some of his strength really hurt him. He's not as powerful driving to the paint like last season.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I don't think you build around Roy exclusively, but on the other hand you'd be a fool to try and pair him up with a high usage player that is completely ineffective without the ball in his hands. Ideally players should compliment each other across the entire roster, but you give greater weight to your core players and especially your all-star, all-nba players -- if LMA and Oden show that they are this caliber you give them greater weight when their game dictates it. If you keep trying to reinvent how players should play and the roles and styles they execute it's a bit like a college student constantly changing their major because they just can't quite make up their mind.

I think the key to look for in any backcourt mate you pair up with Brandon is versatility, with a premium placed on an ability to shoot the ball off the catch, this doesn't mean they can't be a pure point guard and it doesn't mean that Brandon can or can't move off the ball more it just means you need players that fit the core, not necessarily trying to fit the core to new players.

Damn after reading that post I'm not really sure why I was ever as OK with the Miller signing as I was ... then again Miller does do things off the ball like cut, but ... hrmmmm.