The Iran Deal

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Stevenson

Stevenson

Old School
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On preliminary review, it looks like a good deal, and in any case, deals are better than wars in most cases (not all, we know, Nevile Chamberlain and all that.)

Kudos to President Obama and his team. I never would have thought John Kerry could have negotiated a tough deal, but it looks like he did. Engaging Iran with the world is smart, and bombing their reactors would have been major league dumb, like Iraq war dumb.

It is a deal of what was realistic, possible. The hawks wanted something that they could never get. Probably that is why they wanted it.

And anyway, F Netanyahu, the warmonger and his unpatriotic cohorts in the Senate.
 
Kudos to clinton for the N Korea deal.

How'd that turn out?

They built a bomb :)
 
What N Korea deal? They Gang of 7 or whatever it was got kicked out and never finished a deal like this.
 
I guess the Ayatollah, the Supreme Leader of Iran, will no longer be proclaiming "Death to America" now that he has his nuclear power!
 
Yes they did.

http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/agreedframework

On October 21, 1994, the United States and North Korea signed an agreement-the Agreed Framework-calling upon Pyongyang to freeze operation and construction of nuclear reactors suspected of being part of a covert nuclear weapons program in exchange for two proliferation-resistant nuclear power reactors. The agreement also called upon the United States to supply North Korea with fuel oil pending construction of the reactors. An international consortium called the Korean Peninsula Energy Development Organization (KEDO) was formed to implement the agreement.

The Agreed Framework ended an 18-month crisis during which North Korea announced its intention to withdraw from the nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT), under which North Korea committed not to develop nuclear weapons. (See ACA's Chronology of U.S.-North Korean Nuclear and Missile Diplomacy for more information on U.S.-North Korean nuclear relations.)
 
Anyhow, I'm no fan of Obama for sure, but I applaud this deal. I have no problem giving him credit for doing the very rare good thing and this is one of those times.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

I have no clue why Jews vote for Democrats. It's clearly not in the interest of Israel.
 
Denny Crane said:
Anyhow, I'm no fan of Obama for sure, but I applaud this deal. I have no problem giving him credit for doing the very rare good thing and this is one of those times.

I'm cautiously optimistic.

I have no clue why Jews vote for Democrats. It's clearly not in the interest of Israel.
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Perhaps some people are smart enough to grasp the notion that the Israeli government is not synonymous with the Jewish faith. They are politicians first, Israelis second, and Jews third.

For the record, I would bet that Sunni nations are just as upset with this deal. I don't give 2 hoots what they think either.
 
We vote for Democrats because their values most closely align with Jewish values: The importance of community; The value of education - for all - and as a way to get ahead; Tikkun olam (healing the world); fighting injustice; advocating for the disadvantaged and those who do not have a voice; understanding and assisting the oppressed; acceptance of differences; the desire to debate (ad naseum!) instead of fight if possible. Say what you will, but those things do not describe the Republican party.

And, for the record, support of Israel is very low on the list. And also for the record, W did more to hurt Israel with his wanton violent jingoistic foreign policy than any President, ever.
 
agree to disagree with most of that, Stevenson.

I'm interested, though, in why you think that Chamberlain was a one-off to be casually tossed out, and this is/will be lasting.
 
Stevenson said:
We vote for Democrats because their values most closely align with Jewish values: The importance of community; The value of education - for all - and as a way to get ahead; Tikkun olam (healing the world); fighting injustice; advocating for the disadvantaged and those who do not have a voice; understanding and assisting the oppressed; acceptance of differences; the desire to debate (ad naseum!) instead of fight if possible. Say what you will, but those things do not describe the Republican party.

And, for the record, support of Israel is very low on the list. And also for the record, W did more to hurt Israel with his wanton violent jingoistic foreign policy than any President, ever.
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Wow looks like you voted for a superhero....

I agree about W, I completely disagree about Obama.
 
Stevenson said:
We vote for Democrats because their values most closely align with Jewish values: The importance of community; The value of education - for all - and as a way to get ahead; Tikkun olam (healing the world); fighting injustice; advocating for the disadvantaged and those who do not have a voice; understanding and assisting the oppressed; acceptance of differences; the desire to debate (ad naseum!) instead of fight if possible. Say what you will, but those things do not describe the Republican party.

And, for the record, support of Israel is very low on the list. And also for the record, W did more to hurt Israel with his wanton violent jingoistic foreign policy than any President, ever.
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I have to disagree with you on this one.

Jews founded Hollywood and many other industries. They're capitalists, not COMMUNists.

At one point, the studios owned the production of films and the theaters and the government stepped in and broke that up. Not in the Jews' interest.

The Jews in Israel sure do fight a lot. It's not even a right wing vs. left wing thing there. It doesn't matter who their leadership is, they do look out for their own interests.

Nothing wrong with any of that.

Democrats are hostile to Israel. Jews LOVE Israel because it is hugely important in so many ways.

All the touchy feely hopey changey crap doesn't change what their interests really are.

More power to them.

Also, 6M Jews died on FDR's watch. When prominent leaders in the Jewish community, including Morgenthau, came to him and asked him to bomb the trains going to Auschwitz and the other horror camps, he refused. He knew it was going on.

But yeah, somehow Democrats are good for Jews.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Did you really just blame the holocaust on the democrats?
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No. But FDR didn't help the Jews any. If he did bomb the trains, maybe the losses would have been 2m or less.

Ever see the movie "Voyage of the Damned?"

Ship loaded with Jews fleeing Nazi Germany turned away from U.S. Ports. I'll blame that on FDR.

FDR also refused to integrate the armed forces.

He wasn't the hero some people make him out to be.
 
Denny Crane said:
No. But FDR didn't help the Jews any.

Ever see the movie "Voyage of the Damned?"

Ship loaded with Jews fleeing Nazi Germany turned away from U.S. Ports. I'll blame that on FDR.

FDR also refused to integrate the armed forces.

He wasn't the hero some people make him out to be.
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The ship my grandparents were on was turned away from a US Port right before the start of WWII. They weren't Jews. It wasn't a democrat or republican thing, the mood of the country was isolation and no more dirty foreigners.

The ship went to Cuba and that's where my father was born.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
The ship my grandparents were on was turned away from a US Port right before the start of WWII. They weren't Jews. It wasn't a democrat or republican thing, the mood of the country was isolation and no more dirty foreigners.

The ship went to Cuba and that's where my father was born.
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It was a Jewish thing in this case. They were refugees seeking asylum.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?193154-1/book-discussion-saving-jews-franklin-d-roosevelt-holocaust

Don't hate on my links.
 
Denny Crane said:
Don't hate on my links.
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That's actually a good link for you. A normal Denny link would have been something from the Aryan Nation showing it was the Democrats and not the Nazis behind the holocaust.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
That's actually a good link for you. A normal Denny link would have been something from the Aryan Nation showing it was the Democrats and not the Nazis behind the holocaust.
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Well, you're links are completely biased and one sided.

You confused my links to info from the Canadian Govt. agencies responsible for fish survival with fishing industry ones. And you disregarded those as if the fishing industry knows nothing about fish.

I expected you to blast C-SPAN for being a cable industry site, as if that were bad somehow.
 
Denny Crane said:
You confused my links to info from the Canadian Govt. agencies responsible for fish survival with fishing industry ones. And you disregarded those as if the fishing industry knows nothing about fish.
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Read thru that thread again, that is 100% not true. I called you out on your links as you posted them. There was nothing to confuse.
 
You must have missed the Canadian government ones.

LOL
 
Denny - of course we are capitalists. There is nothing mutually exclusive about being Democratic or the liberal values I mentioned and making money, hopefully tons of money. You make tons of money if you massively help people solve their problems. Nothing right or left about that.

And FDR made his decisions based on real politic
 
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Stevenson said:
Denny - of corse we are capitalists. There is nothing mutually exclusive about being Democratic or the liberal values I mentioned and making money, hopefully tons of money. You make tons of money if you massively help people solve their problems. Nothing right or left about that.

And FDR made his decisions based on real politic
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Democrats call you the 1% and revile you.

The only people I ever hear blame Israel for the mess anywhere in the Middle East are democrats. Heck, Obama is downright hostile to Israel.

FDR turned down Jewish leaders who begged him to do the right thing. He was commander in chief. He knew the holocaust was going on. I call bullshit on the "real politic."


http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/item/2013/0912/bk/book11_rockower_fdr.html
 
Any Repub who spoke out against Israel would draw the rage of the Pat-Robertson-right.
 
Denny - I don't know where you get your opinions about Democrats; they seem so far removed from any reality I know or experience. My world is full of liberal Jews. They all all support Israel - to a fault in my opinion (having been to the West Bank.) They all are rampant capitalists too - very successful at the capitalistic game really. They don't "revile" the 1% - many are the 1%, and those that aren't, strive to get there. My pals are all also very patriotic - again a far cry from the right's cartoonish characterization of the left.
 
You skipped past my point. Democrats hate on the 1%. Obama decries income inequality in his major speeches. Tax the rich is the party's mantra. Etc.

Kinda like how black people want school vouchers, democrats refuse to allow them, and black people monolithically vote for people who oppose their best interests.

I don't get it.
 
I'm not suggesting vote for republicans either. Fwiw.

But republicans do cater to their whacky religious constituents.

If black folks, Jews, and Hispanics ran a third party, they start with 35% of the popular vote. At least.

Food for thought.
 
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