The lunacy continues

[Shooter]

If this doesn't tell you how low we've sunk in this country, I don't know what will. Congress is now trying to pass a law limiting how much executives on Wall Street can be paid. This is statism and marxism and socialism all rolled into one, and it's a very dangerous and slippery slope we are going down.

Stop the madness, I say. Leave the free market alone; it's what has made us so prosperous.

WASHINGTON – Bowing to populist anger, the House voted Friday to prohibit pay and bonus packages that encourage bankers and traders to take risks so big they could bring down the entire economy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090731/ap_on_bi_ge/us_bailout_bonuses

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If the company needed a bailout then they shouldn't be paying bonuses until the bailout is paid back. You're right, it shouldn't be a law but it should have been a condition for them to receive the money.

 

[Colonel Ronan]

You call this prosperous?!

 

[Stevenson]

I think this is the first time I have evrr agreed with you politically, or maybe the second.

Barney Frank is a moron.

 

[Eastoff]

Let's remove all those regulations and laws! Free market will solve everything, then Bill Gates will become our king and treat us much better. Unless we live in Phil Knight land.

 

[rocketeer]

You call this prosperous?!

yes. the government shouldn't be able to control the pay of private companies.

if this only includes companies involved in the bailout, then this should have been a stipulation of the bailout, not just something they decided to force upon them now.

 

[Colonel Ronan]

yes. the government shouldn't be able to control the pay of private companies.

if this only includes companies involved in the bailout, then this should have been a stipulation of the bailout, not just something they decided to force upon them now.

I think you read the word "preposterous."

 

[rocketeer]

I think you read the word "preposterous."

haha. that i did.

 

[maxiep]

It will only create a move of talent from firms that received bailouts to boutique firms and they'll take their clients with them. The good people on the Street will get paid and the Federal Government just lowered the return on the bailout money. But it felt good to stick it to the man!

 

[Sug]

Stop the madness, I say. Leave the free market alone; it's what has made us so prosperous.

Free market??? LMAO you mean the one that is protected by the most expensive military in the world, and has more tax dollars running through it than any in the world. BTW those tax dollars come mainly in the form of fed subs to the wealthy because they pay lobbyists to get them on the books. Both parties have made that happen.

 

[Denny Crane]

Free market??? LMAO you mean the one that is protected by the most expensive military in the world, and has more tax dollars running through it than any in the world. BTW those tax dollars come mainly in the form of fed subs to the wealthy because they pay lobbyists to get them on the books. Both parties have made that happen.

We agree on something. There's been no free markets since the beginning of the nation.

That's why I have to chuckle a bit when people say things like "capitalism failed" or "capitalism needs to be reigned in because we've seen the effects." We haven't seen capitalism or free markets. It's like putting capitalism on trial for the crimes committed by social democracy.

 

[Sug]

We agree on something. There's been no free markets since the beginning of the nation.

That's why I have to chuckle a bit when people say things like "capitalism failed" or "capitalism needs to be reigned in because we've seen the effects." We haven't seen capitalism or free markets. It's like putting capitalism on trial for the crimes committed by social democracy.

The top 5% don't want capitalism because you can actually lose in that situation, they want to protect their wealth.

 

[Denny Crane]

The top 5% don't want capitalism because you can actually lose in that situation, they want to protect their wealth.

If they don't want it, it must be a good thing, right?

 

[Денг Гордон]

Let's remove all those regulations and laws! Free market will solve everything, then Bill Gates will become our king and treat us much better. Unless we live in Phil Knight land.

Bill Gates couldn't even build a video game system that doesn't breakdown, how is he going to run a country that doesn't break down?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Bill Gates couldn't even build a video game system that doesn't breakdown, how is he going to run a country that doesn't break down?

What!?! You mean to tell me Obama isn't a video game???

 

[Masbee]

If this doesn't tell you how low we've sunk in this country, I don't know what will. Congress is now trying to pass a law limiting how much executives on Wall Street can be paid. This is statism and marxism and socialism all rolled into one, and it's a very dangerous and slippery slope we are going down.

Stop the madness, I say. Leave the free market alone;

So if the market is "free" what was with the bailouts?

If the banks were not about to go bust, why did they so quickly abandon the "free" market and go begging hat in hand to Uncle Sam?

Consider, if they had been allowed to go bust, and gone through bankruptcy, all those bankers would have been out of jobs - and unlikely to be rehired by the survior banks at anything like their former positions, assuming they were hired at all, which is unlikely; would have lost all the equity in company stock they owned; would have lost all the value in any stock options they held; would have lost all their other benefits and perks, would have risked the bankruptcy court mandating "clawbacks" on any large bonus payments occuring too close to the bankruptcy filing, and....

they sure as hell would not in any way, shape, form, or amount, now be in line for any bonus, let alone the HUGE bonuses now being paid out, after only one good quarter.

The system, whatever the heck it is, and it sure the hell isn't a "free" market, is screwed up. Capping compensation is not a fix, but it really isn't out of line with all messed up components that make up the financial system.

 

[mook]

Right now it's a can't lose situation for a lot of these execs. Here's the thought process of the moral hazard: Take massive risks. If the risk pans out, collect a fat bonus. If the risk doesn't, call Uncle Sam and tell him you need taxpayer money. It's a can't-lose situation that only encourages risk taking. The exact same shit happened with the Savings and Loan crisis.

I suppose the thinking is that if you limit executive bonuses, you limit their incentive to take risks.

The whole situation sucks, because we didn't make it abundantly clear 5-10 years ago that if we removed regulations we would also remove any possibility that taxpayers would bail out the banking industry.

You can have regulation and bailouts. Or you can have no regulation and no bailouts. What you can't have is bailouts and no regulation.

 

[Tyler_Hansbrough]

What!?! You mean to tell me Obama isn't a video game???

LOLOL nice!

 

[Masbee]

Right now it's a can't lose situation for a lot of these execs. Here's the thought process of the moral hazard: Take massive risks. If the risk pans out, collect a fat bonus. If the risk doesn't, call Uncle Sam and tell him you need taxpayer money. It's a can't-lose situation that only encourages risk taking. The exact same shit happened with the Savings and Loan crisis.

I suppose the thinking is that if you limit executive bonuses, you limit their incentive to take risks.

The whole situation sucks, because we didn't make it abundantly clear 5-10 years ago that if we removed regulations we would also remove any possibility that taxpayers would bail out the banking industry.

You can have regulation and bailouts. Or you can have no regulation and no bailouts. What you can't have is bailouts and no regulation.

You have Congress to thank for that fucked up situation.

 

[yakbladder]

If this doesn't tell you how low we've sunk in this country, I don't know what will. Congress is now trying to pass a law limiting how much executives on Wall Street can be paid. This is statism and marxism and socialism all rolled into one, and it's a very dangerous and slippery slope we are going down.

Gosh damn't, you're right! We should roll back this obvious attempt at government take-over and allow the banks to be free and private once more! Let them invest their money where they see fit, take the risks with the rewards, choose whom to...what's that? Oh, that's right. They already did and nearly keel-hauled the entire financial system. No thanks.

I'm not necessarily sure this move accomplishes anything, plus Barney Frank seems a little too gung-ho for his new found power. But I'm not necessarily against this move either because, well, Wall St. execs stink like 15 day old donkey poo.

 

[Denny Crane]

Right now it's a can't lose situation for a lot of these execs. Here's the thought process of the moral hazard: Take massive risks. If the risk pans out, collect a fat bonus. If the risk doesn't, call Uncle Sam and tell him you need taxpayer money. It's a can't-lose situation that only encourages risk taking. The exact same shit happened with the Savings and Loan crisis.

I suppose the thinking is that if you limit executive bonuses, you limit their incentive to take risks.

The whole situation sucks, because we didn't make it abundantly clear 5-10 years ago that if we removed regulations we would also remove any possibility that taxpayers would bail out the banking industry.

You can have regulation and bailouts. Or you can have no regulation and no bailouts. What you can't have is bailouts and no regulation.

No regulation and no bailouts. If people want to buy insurance, that's fine.

 

[mook]

No regulation and no bailouts. If people want to buy insurance, that's fine.

Even though I'm generally pretty liberal, I tend to agree. If we'd made it abundantly clear at every step of deregulation that the market is on its own and there would be nothing beyond 100k of FDIC insurance, I doubt we'd be in the mess we are now.

Now that we're in this mess, though, there's not much that can be done but start regulating. Once things have a couple of years (decades?) of stability, then we can hopefully move to a more rational structure without implicit bailout promises or onerous regulation. (Although I think some amount of regulation will always be necessary.)

 

[Denny Crane]

Even though I'm generally pretty liberal, I tend to agree. If we'd made it abundantly clear at every step of deregulation that the market is on its own and there would be nothing beyond 100k of FDIC insurance, I doubt we'd be in the mess we are now.

Now that we're in this mess, though, there's not much that can be done but start regulating. Once things have a couple of years (decades?) of stability, then we can hopefully move to a more rational structure without implicit bailout promises or onerous regulation. (Although I think some amount of regulation will always be necessary.)

I want to go to vegas and play craps. You want to bail me out?

 

[Idog1976]

I want to go to vegas and play craps. You want to bail me out?

No, but if you went to Vegas and played craps with everyone in the country's retirement funds and a sizeable chunk of the global GDP I would want you bailed out. Bailed out with some chum filled bucket into shark infested waters that is.

Totally agree with your way above statement about us not having Capitalism in this country. I also agree with whomever said that the global elite HATE capitalism. I think this might be because some little people get rich and SOME of those little people even have consciences! Imagine that.

 

[MARIS61]

...nine of the nation's biggest banks, which are receiving billions of dollars in federal bailout aid, paid individual bonuses of $1 million or more to nearly 5,000 employees.

For those of you on drugs, that's $5 Billion of your tax dollars being converted into "Hush Money" to keep employees from toppling the tower when questioned in the upcoming thousands of criminal fraud probes the FBI is conducting in these same firms.

The notion that there are 5,000 bank employees on Wall St who are each worth over a million a year has to be the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.

 

[maxiep]

The notion that there are 5,000 bank employees on Wall St who are each worth over a million a year has to be the most ludicrous thing I've ever heard.

You're right. There are at least 10 times that many. The beauty of Wall Street is that the calculation is naked--you can directly tie your contribution to the bottom line. For example, when you have your annual review, you just point to the deals you brought in or where you found the angle to make it work. It's a pretty easy calculation.

And for the record, I find it ironic that a residential realtor--the biggest externality I can think of--is complaining about people not adding value to a transaction.