OT The ominous like button and its contribution to the downfall of society…

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SharpeScooterShooter

SharpeScooterShooter

SharpeShooter
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This was posted by a friend of mine, ex Pink Martini percussionist gone solo, and it struck home with me.


The binary strikes again.

I will confess, I am old enough to remember the inception of Facebook. One of the things which caused me not a small amount of cognitive dissonance was the seemingly innocuous “like” button. It struck me as a veritable monstrosity at the time. Having grown up in a time when human discourse and interaction were not mediated by having to take a position of agreement or disagreement in the face of an utterance, it seemed like a forceful, even coercive, presentation of an injunction. To like or not to like, that is the question. Absorbed in my first soliloquy as I ventured into the newly founded land of virtuality, I treaded with caution and apprehension. Each post that came up on my feed, the daily bread of my emerging cyber identity, rattled the fragile eggshells I was walking on. It was clear to me that friendships hitherto taken for granted would be undone by this little friendly chubby thumb icon. It also occurred to me that polarization would be inevitable. It made interaction contentious at its heart. It seemed like a game of poker gone wrong. Suspicions running high. Humans are not supposed to show their cards at the start of any dialogue, not because they are deceitful, but, rather, because their own positions are not supposed to be set in stone, especially at the beginning. There are no cards to show. And yet, here we were, forced to take a stand on one or the other side of this newly created fault line. Earthquakes were sure to follow. And they did. One after another the dominoes fell. And they continue to fall in an alarming crescendo of spiraling chaos around the world. Pick a side. They force our hand. In fear we choose an identity… Or it chooses us… All who leave the pack run a great risk. Both sides hate only one thing more than the other camp: the lone wolves. The ones who refuse to sell their soul with a click. The ones who live without the safety of a forgone conclusion. In the spirit of things, please do not like this post, please don’t even make up your mind, but do share it if you wish to keep the conversation alive.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
This was posted by a friend of mine, ex Pink Martini percussionist gone solo, and it struck home with me.


The binary strikes again.

I will confess, I am old enough to remember the inception of Facebook. One of the things which caused me not a small amount of cognitive dissonance was the seemingly innocuous “like” button. It struck me as a veritable monstrosity at the time. Having grown up in a time when human discourse and interaction were not mediated by having to take a position of agreement or disagreement in the face of an utterance, it seemed like a forceful, even coercive, presentation of an injunction. To like or not to like, that is the question. Absorbed in my first soliloquy as I ventured into the newly founded land of virtuality, I treaded with caution and apprehension. Each post that came up on my feed, the daily bread of my emerging cyber identity, rattled the fragile eggshells I was walking on. It was clear to me that friendships hitherto taken for granted would be undone by this little friendly chubby thumb icon. It also occurred to me that polarization would be inevitable. It made interaction contentious at its heart. It seemed like a game of poker gone wrong. Suspicions running high. Humans are not supposed to show their cards at the start of any dialogue, not because they are deceitful, but, rather, because their own positions are not supposed to be set in stone, especially at the beginning. There are no cards to show. And yet, here we were, forced to take a stand on one or the other side of this newly created fault line. Earthquakes were sure to follow. And they did. One after another the dominoes fell. And they continue to fall in an alarming crescendo of spiraling chaos around the world. Pick a side. They force our hand. In fear we choose an identity… Or it chooses us… All who leave the pack run a great risk. Both sides hate only one thing more than the other camp: the lone wolves. The ones who refuse to sell their soul with a click. The ones who live without the safety of a forgone conclusion. In the spirit of things, please do not like this post, please don’t even make up your mind, but do share it if you wish to keep the conversation alive.
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Wow. The epitome of making mountains out of molehills. Who really cares that much whether an individual person likes a specific post?
 
I can see the internet affecting the downfall of society but agreeing with someone's expression or liking someone's art or theory to me is hardly a threatening element. Yahoo used to have a dislike and like system and when you got double digit dislikes, the post disappeared...I always thought that was weird. If I like a standup comedy act it's hardly a subversive act to applaud. The weird thing about any political or social discourse online is that people unfairly expect conversations to be court room cross examinations with mountains of physical evidence to disprove each other's takes on a subject. Nobody goes to a pub and carries a law library with them to have a conversation. To me socializing is conversational and not for the sole purpose of buzz killing or debating to death everything imaginable. I also notice that if I read an article and find it interesting and share it on a site like this one, inevitably people assume you agree with or are an eexpert in whatever the article proposes. Rather than explore an idea, people often just want to disprove it at all costs. People with homes have a really hard time addressing homelessness at times with any real perspective..
 
riverman said:
I can see the internet affecting the downfall of society but agreeing with someone's expression or liking someone's art or theory to me is hardly a threatening element. Yahoo used to have a dislike and like system and when you got double digit dislikes, the post disappeared...I always thought that was weird. If I like a standup comedy act it's hardly a subversive act to applaud. The weird thing about any political or social discourse online is that people unfairly expect conversations to be court room cross examinations with mountains of physical evidence to disprove each other's takes on a subject. Nobody goes to a pub and carries a law library with them to have a conversation. To me socializing is conversational and not for the sole purpose of buzz killing or debating to death everything imaginable. I also notice that if I read an article and find it interesting and share it on a site like this one, inevitably people assume you agree with or are an eexpert in whatever the article proposes. Rather than explore an idea, people often just want to disprove it at all costs. People with homes have a really hard time addressing homelessness at times with any real perspective..
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I think its more about liking opinions and statements. Not physical things like art or songs.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
Humans are not supposed to show their cards at the start of any dialogue, not because they are deceitful, but, rather, because their own positions are not supposed to be set in stone, especially at the beginning. There are no cards to show. And yet, here we were, forced to take a stand on one or the other side of this newly created fault line.
Click to expand...

This is the line that got me. The like button allows us to confirm without disposition the entirety of ones comment or post or not. It leaves no room for subjective thought. Its either yes or no. In todays political climate and complexities, I see agreeing 100% with the entirety of ones opinion as exactly he explained in the quote above.

Too often we agree or disagree with a portion, yet we do not discuss these details, but rather like or not like the comment as a whole. Leads to many confliction thoughts and opinions that may otherwise agree or not agree.
 
I mean the Social dilemma on netflix touched upon this as well.

The likes and dislikes help to separate us without any compromise or middle ground. Its those who agree and those who disagree. Creating dividing lines between many who would otherwise have much in common.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
Did you read the whole thing and if so, does it not make sense?
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I did, and to me, no, it does not make sense. I have encountered people who expect everyone to take a position on their chosen die-on-this-hill topic, but that is more the exception than the rule. The perceptions of "contention", "polarization", "suspicion" and "walking on eggshells" espoused by the author as inherent and ubiquitous in online conversation seem more to be projections by the same. People bring their own perspectives and mindset to social media, and then respond to what they encounter based thereupon.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I did, and to me, no, it does not make sense. I have encountered people who expect everyone to take a position on their chosen die-on-this-hill topic, but that is more the exception than the rule. The perceptions of "contention", "polarization", "suspicion" and "walking on eggshells" espoused by the author as inherent and ubiquitous in online conversation seem more to be projections by the same. People bring their own perspectives and mindset to social media, and then respond to what they encounter based thereupon.
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In my experience, Ive seen the opposite. support/like this and you are dead to me, is the trend it seems. No discussion. Just you said this? you are that.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
This is the line that got me. The like button allows us to confirm without disposition the entirety of ones comment or post or not. It leaves no room for subjective thought. Its either yes or no. In todays political climate and complexities, I see agreeing 100% with the entirety of ones opinion as exactly he explained in the quote above.

Too often we agree or disagree with a portion, yet we do not discuss these details, but rather like or not like the comment as a whole. Leads to many confliction thoughts and opinions that may otherwise agree or not agree.
Click to expand...
@Mediocre Man has made a point of the fact that he never gives anyone's post a "like". Does that mean that he dislikes everyone's post? Not at all. As such, I don't see the "liking" of posts as binarily as is being presented. If I like a post, then I liked that post. If I didn't, then neither you nor anyone else knows how I felt about the post, and any imputed interpretation comes from the viewer, not from me.
 
I seldom like posts, but when I do, not always is it a sign I agree with the person.

I have liked posts that I 100% disagree with. It is a form of respect for someone that has shown signs they invested time to research a subject. And they are not a marionette repeating propaganda from the special interest or agenda they support.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
@Mediocre Man has made a point of the fact that he never gives anyone's post a "like". Does that mean that he dislikes everyone's post? Not at all. As such, I don't see the "liking" of posts as binarily as is being presented. If I like a post, then I liked that post. If I didn't, then neither you nor anyone else knows how I felt about the post, and any imputed interpretation comes from the viewer, not from me.
Click to expand...

Good point on the not liking. I think the original post was meant more for things where you can do a thumbs up or thumbs down thing.
But I see your point about not liking, and thus being an unknown.
 
oldfisherman said:
I seldom like posts, but when I do, not always is it a sign I agree with the person.

I have liked posts that I 100% disagree with. It is a form of respect for someone that has shown signs they invested time to research a subject. And they are not a marionette repeating propaganda from the special interest or agenda they support.
Click to expand...

I think the point of the OP, is that when others see you liked something, its implied you agree with everything in that post. Without a follow up response, etc. It is not known why you liked it, and most assume its because you are in agreement of said post. When actually you may have not been.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
I think the point of the OP, is that when others see you liked something, its implied you agree with everything in that post. Without a follow up response, etc. It is not known why you liked it, and most assume its because you are in agreement of said post. When actually you may have not been.
Click to expand...
Perhaps that might have been his intention, but when he says, "here we were, forced to take a stand on one or the other side of this newly created fault line, ... Pick a side. They force our hand." he ventures away from concern that people judge only your responses, and into claiming that social media, by its very nature, mandates polarization and division, and that is where he and I fundamentally disagree.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Perhaps that might have been his intention, but when he says, "here we were, forced to take a stand on one or the other side of this newly created fault line, ... Pick a side. They force our hand." he ventures away from concern over people judge only your responses, and into claiming that social media, by its very nature, mandates polarization and division, and that is where he and I fundamentally disagree.
Click to expand...
Ahh I see that. Knowing Martin, as I do though, I'm pretty sure thats what he meant. :)
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
I think the point of the OP, is that when others see you liked something, its implied you agree with everything in that post. Without a follow up response, etc. It is not known why you liked it, and most assume its because you are in agreement of said post. When actually you may have not been.
Click to expand...
I think part of my issue with it all is the great concern over people looking at who liked a facebook post. Who when liking a post goes in and looks at everyone who liked it, and then makes assumptions about those people because of their likes? I've never seen a discussion or argument on facebook started from someone giving a post a thumbs up. I dunno if there is projection from the OP that they judge others who like stuff, so he assumes others will judge him?
Also, there is a reply feature. If you want to add nuance to your like, you can add a comment and start a discussion. This just all feels overly dramatic in a sensationalized "reefer madness" sort of way.
I'm with platy, I disagree that there's some forced polarization to choose sides on facebook.
 
RR7 said:
I think part of my issue with it all is the great concern over people looking at who liked a facebook post. Who when liking a post goes in and looks at everyone who liked it, and then makes assumptions about those people because of their likes? I've never seen a discussion or argument on facebook started from someone giving a post a thumbs up. I dunno if there is projection from the OP that they judge others who like stuff, so he assumes others will judge him?
Also, there is a reply feature. If you want to add nuance to your like, you can add a comment and start a discussion. This just all feels overly dramatic in a sensationalized "reefer madness" sort of way.
I'm with platy, I disagree that there's some forced polarization to choose sides on facebook.
Click to expand...
I hope nobody is upset for me liking this post.
 
SharpeScooterShooter said:
This was posted by a friend of mine, ex Pink Martini percussionist gone solo, and it struck home with me.


The binary strikes again.

I will confess, I am old enough to remember the inception of Facebook. One of the things which caused me not a small amount of cognitive dissonance was the seemingly innocuous “like” button. It struck me as a veritable monstrosity at the time. Having grown up in a time when human discourse and interaction were not mediated by having to take a position of agreement or disagreement in the face of an utterance, it seemed like a forceful, even coercive, presentation of an injunction. To like or not to like, that is the question. Absorbed in my first soliloquy as I ventured into the newly founded land of virtuality, I treaded with caution and apprehension. Each post that came up on my feed, the daily bread of my emerging cyber identity, rattled the fragile eggshells I was walking on. It was clear to me that friendships hitherto taken for granted would be undone by this little friendly chubby thumb icon. It also occurred to me that polarization would be inevitable. It made interaction contentious at its heart. It seemed like a game of poker gone wrong. Suspicions running high. Humans are not supposed to show their cards at the start of any dialogue, not because they are deceitful, but, rather, because their own positions are not supposed to be set in stone, especially at the beginning. There are no cards to show. And yet, here we were, forced to take a stand on one or the other side of this newly created fault line. Earthquakes were sure to follow. And they did. One after another the dominoes fell. And they continue to fall in an alarming crescendo of spiraling chaos around the world. Pick a side. They force our hand. In fear we choose an identity… Or it chooses us… All who leave the pack run a great risk. Both sides hate only one thing more than the other camp: the lone wolves. The ones who refuse to sell their soul with a click. The ones who live without the safety of a forgone conclusion. In the spirit of things, please do not like this post, please don’t even make up your mind, but do share it if you wish to keep the conversation alive.
Click to expand...

Thesaurus much?
 
barfo said:
Solo percussionists don't get a lot of likes, so I can understand the angst.

barfo
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Lol. On the real he is much more than that. We had studios next door to each other downtown. I watch over a year as he recorded a complete album in that basement. And it’s really really good. You can hear the latin Pink Martini influence but it’s more upbeat and not as in the pocket. More edgey. He is in Europe now living the dream
 
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