The truth about recruiting and impact

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Targus

Targus

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For the flappy and uneducated lip who boasts of one of the strongest OSU recruiting classes, and Oregon being impacted by the so-called-scandal - I recommend reading the link below. I've been following the recruiting process and athlete development for years.

First, great recruiting classes don't always equal wins on the field. UCLA, South Carolina, ND and Michigan rank higher than Oregon over the 2002-2011 time period.

Second, low rated classes don't always equal losing seasons. From the same period Boise State ranks 76th, TCU 61st and Utah 59th. Pretty solid programs with average classes.

Third, player rankings are nothing more than an educated guess/estimate on potential. Barner and James (Heisman finalist and the nations leading rusher last season) were mere 3 star athletes, as was Casey Matthews. Mark Asper, two star. Maehel, 3 stars. Our worst recent class of 2006 (49th) contributed players to a BCS and Pac10 Champ team.

08,09,10 were solid recruiting classes for OSU - yet they only won 5 games last season! :lol:

Some of Oregon State's most highly rated recruits (4 and 5 stars) went on to Beaver mediocrity: Rueben Jackson, Dorian Smith, David Ross, Ryan McCants, Reggie Dun.

The funny part is thus far in the recruiting season, out of all the OSU commits, Oregon only offered one. Oregon currently has a nice class going, with recruits from OR, CO, TX, CA, and MT.

Bottom line: recruiting impacts talent, but development is often more important. How's Barney Graff doing at player development?




http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1238729
 
A few Ducks in the NFL and their rival rankings:

Dante Rasario 2 star
Walter Thurmond 2 star
J. Byrd 2 star
Kellen Clemens 3 star
Pat Chung 2 stars
Max Unger 2 star
Toiena 2 star

Need I go on?? Star rankings are often junk...so, please...go on and boast! LOL!
 
while recruiting rankings isn't the end all by any means and plenty of examples of 2* guys who go on to greatness and 5*s who fizzle exist, they do hold some value. I just read a rivals article where going off their average ratings of classes over the past 10 years, Oregon (@ #19) is by far the lowest to have played for a national title. All of the other schools who have made it to the MNC game in the last decade have recruiting classes ranked #13 or above. Player development & coaching are major factors in who wins on Saturday, but raw talent generally helps too.

btw... it seems you were using scout's ratings on the lowly rated Ducks who made the NFL you relayed. They (scout) are notorious for downgrading their ratings on future Ducks as well as overrating future Huskies... surprise surprise it's owned by UW alum. Rivals is much more conservative in the number of stars they dole out yet they had several of the guys you listed more highly rated coming out of HS.

STOMP
 
It sucks that the article started in 2002 and not 2000. Oregon's win % would have sky rocketed. Even without 2 of our best years we are still 15th in college football in winning %, and probably top 5 since 2008.

Its not a stretch to say the Ducks have been a top 10 program (and I think most would actually believe this) since 2000. It shows in the publicity that this recruiting scandal is getting.
 
other pretty obvious notes on this...

rating prospects by the recruiting services evolves as we approach signing day. Things become more accurate after they observe guys at the camps playing against the other top talents and again watching these guys during their Sr. season. It's pretty common for D1 talents from outside of the big cities to slip through without serious evaluation by the services... especially early on. The Ducks QB recruit Jake Rodrigues and DE Cody Carriger would be a good examples of this. Oregon typically fills out much of their classes with small town kids who feel comfortable with Eugene.

Also many guys continue to experience dramatic physically development... heck, I grew 8" between ages 17-18. You often hear coaches talking about recruiting a guy because of his potential once he fills out his frame. So while the services rate a guy for what they have shown, schools often recruit the kid for what they project them to be.

Basically, rating prospects is an inexact science but especially so at this point of the recruiting cycle.

STOMP
 
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Agree, Stomp. Didn't you and I have this same conversation about a year and a half ago and it was me telling you that my I've experienced scout downgrade a few players after committing to a school less favorable by the operators?

Here's a pretty good article by a sports nut, engineer/mathematics dude. The two services are incredibly close - no doubt due to all the variables and the fact that they reference each other.

http://thomasgoldkamp.com/index.php...e&catid=4:sports&id=17:the-recruiting-project
 
Targus said:
Agree, Stomp. Didn't you and I have this same conversation about a year and a half ago and it was me telling you that my I've experienced scout downgrade a few players after committing to a school less favorable by the operators?
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I've been aware of the scout/UW connection for longer then I've been a rivals subscriber (3 years) as that was a major reason I went with them. Here is a related discussion you and I had just over 7 months ago.

http://sportstwo.com/threads/175001-Josh-Huff-True-Freshman

STOMP
 
Cool, thanks. Why does eight months seem like a year and a half? Lol.

Did you have time to read the article I posted? Interesting. The numbers show just how close (surprise to me) Scout, Rivals and ESPN truly are.
 
But do the Beavers cheat to get their 2 star players?
 
I'll answer your question without a question. Mike Riley appears to run a clean recruiting program. He brings in good athletes and consistently sends an impressive number of athletes to the NFL. He's often been described as doing more with less talent, however, the truth is, he sends so many players to the NFL that it appears he does less with more.

As for you, my response invoking friend, I believe the Ducks have not been found guilty of anything, yet. They will. But, it will be minor. You'll have another opportunity to take your shots but the truth is, we'll be back to dominating the college football field soon.

Nonetheless, isn't your team Michigan State? A team that leads the Big Ten in time spent on probation - ten years - and is consistently viewed as a dirty program in a dirty conference? http://www.annarbor.com/sports/um-f...-other-big-ten-team-brady-hoke-coached-the-o/

Ya'll had a nice season going until you actually had to play a real Bama team, who had 3 losses, but humiliated and exposed your team 49-7. :lol: I'll take a 3 point loss to the National Champs, on the very last play of the game any day - over a humiliating pounding....
 
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Big Frame said:
Yes I am, and I thought you shouldn't answer a question with another question.
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answering a question with a question isn't against any sort of rules here, but trolling a forum is. Thats all you've contributed to the Ducks forum in the several posts I've read.

If you really are curious whether the Ducks or Beavers cheated, you're going to have to wait until the NCAA says thats so. As it stands, I'm pretty sure that neither school will receive any sort of real rebuke from the powers that be. If you just want to talk shit, here's the spot

Tell you what, check your PMs and I'll send you a timeline of events that a poster from another board made on this Duck "scandal" that lays things pretty bare

STOMP
 
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Ann Arbor.com? HAHA You think any good news about the Ducks comes out of Corvallis?.... Your ducks had a good season going until you had to play a SEC team also :)
 
Big Frame said:
Ann Arbor.com? HAHA You think any good news about the Ducks comes out of Corvallis?.... Your ducks had a good season going until you had to play a SEC team also :)
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huh? that must be some sort of cookie in your computer (you're a MichSt. fan) as I linked you the Oregonlive Ducks forum (from the Oregonian) and made sure it works.

and actually the Ducks slaughtered the SEC's Tennessee (at UT) early in the season. They did lose to Auburn in the National Championship by 3 points on the last play of the game, but I'd still call 12-1 and a final #3 overall ranking a good season.

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
huh? that must be some sort of cookie in your computer (you're a MichSt. fan) as I linked you the Oregonlive Ducks forum (from the Oregonian) and made sure it works.

and actually the Ducks slaughtered the SEC's Tennessee (at UT) early in the season. They did lose to Auburn in the National Championship by 3 points on the last play of the game, but I'd still call 12-1 and a final #3 overall ranking a good season.

STOMP
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Oregon has given both Michigan and Tennessee their worst home losses ever, and both were within the past 5 years.

Meanwhile, Michigan State got manhandled 49-7 (and it wasn't that close) by an Alabama team that Auburn had to struggle to beat by one point.
 
Big Frame said:
Ann Arbor.com? HAHA You think any good news about the Ducks comes out of Corvallis?.... Your ducks had a good season going until you had to play a SEC team also :)
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You haha the source, but not the content?

Either way, your opinion about new sources doesn't change the findings - as reported by ESPN, yahoo sports, YOUR local news, cbs sports, etc...:

Citing "several very serious and major violations," including academic fraud and cash payments to recruits, the NCAA hit Michigan State's football program Monday with the heaviest penalties a Big Ten member has received since the organization came down on Illinois' basketball team in 1990.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...1_penalties-football-victories-ncaa-committee


From 1998 - 2009 the Pac-10 leads the SEC 11-9 (.550).
 
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BTW: Here's a nice story about Oregon Football from the Corvallis Gazette. Truth is, if you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know the local Corvallis paper is respectfully neutral and a quick search of the Gazette shows numerous headlines like, "Ducks beat Beavers, Again..." or "Ducks continue dominance against Beavers..." Your schtick is getting tiresome.

http://www.gazettetimes.com/sports/article_2cb2ccde-736b-11e0-ac59-001cc4c03286.html
 
PapaG said:
Oregon has given both Michigan and Tennessee their worst home losses ever, and both were within the past 5 years.

Meanwhile, Michigan State got manhandled 49-7 (and it wasn't that close) by an Alabama team that Auburn had to struggle to beat by one point.
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Did I ever say the Ducks suck? That would be kinda stupid after they played in the BCS Championship game. I just asked if the Beavers paid for 2 star players....THATS ALL. My team did get caught IN THE 90'S So what, its not like they are getting tattoo's, or getting good deals on new cars NOW.
 
Big Frame said:
I just asked if the Beavers paid for 2 star players....THATS ALL.
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I'm not sure that this would be the place to start if you are looking to get a legit answer to this question. Tlong might be in the know, but I doubt many who post on this part can answer with any credibility if the Beavers pay for their 2 star players. :cheers:
 
Big Frame said:
Did I ever say the Ducks suck? That would be kinda stupid after they played in the BCS Championship game. I just asked if the Beavers paid for 2 star players....THATS ALL. My team did get caught IN THE 90'S So what, its not like they are getting tattoo's, or getting good deals on new cars NOW.
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what proof do you have of this?

STOMP
 
Big Frame said:
Did I ever say the Ducks suck?
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no you did not, but neither PapaG nor Stomp didnt say you said that either. I believe they was referring to you saying the Ducks had a good season going UNTIL they had to face an SEC team. I noticed him referring to already playing and SEC team before AU, and him saying that even after the loss the Ducks were having a good season. It seems he was responding to your comment about the Ducks season all of the sudden stopping being good after the loss to AU. I could be misreading the whole thing though :dunno:
 
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Wheels said:
no you did not, but Stomp didnt say you said that either. I believe he was referring to you saying the Ducks had a good season going UNTIL they had to face an SEC team. I noticed him referring to already playing and SEC team before AU, and him saying that even after the loss the Ducks were having a good season. It seems he was responding to your comment about the Ducks season all of the sudden stopping being good after the loss to AU. I could be misreading the whole thing though :dunno:
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I added the Neyland Stadium asswhooping that UO laid on the Vols solely because of the "good season until playing the SEC" post.

Newflash to the MSU fan. In all the years of Neyland Stadium, and of all the SEC teams that have played there, a Pac 10 team from the 2010 gave the Vols their worst loss ever in that stadium.

Plus, I was at Autzen in '98 when Michigan State played the Ducks. That was another asswhooping.
 
whoops I meant PapaG was the one who mentioned the SEC comment, not STOMP
 
Wheels said:
whoops I meant PapaG was the one who mentioned the SEC comment, not STOMP
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No biggie, STOMP did indirectly as well.

What I've learned from this thread is that Sparty Nation apparently has at least one troll, and that he's trolling a school that beat his team 48-14 the last time they played in Oregon.
 
Wheels said:
no you did not, but neither PapaG nor Stomp didnt say you said that either. I believe they was referring to you saying the Ducks had a good season going UNTIL they had to face an SEC team. I noticed him referring to already playing and SEC team before AU, and him saying that even after the loss the Ducks were having a good season. It seems he was responding to your comment about the Ducks season all of the sudden stopping being good after the loss to AU. I could be misreading the whole thing though :dunno:
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You see, I don't really follow you guys, I was trying to be cute when I brought up the SEC I didnt know you played the Vols. This whole argument is circular, Targus brings up Bama, I try to bring up Auburn. PapaG brings up 98, ill bring up 99. We both had decent years.
 
PapaG said:
No biggie, STOMP did indirectly as well.

What I've learned from this thread is that Sparty Nation apparently has at least one troll, and that he's trolling a school that beat his team 48-14 the last time they played in Oregon.
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Im not trolling, I made a joke and it got your panties in a bunch...
 
Oregon fans take pride in our program. I'm sure you understand this. You popped off and asked a question that implied cheating...and it wasn't funny, nor did anyone take it as a joke. Dont pretend we are fools. Everyone got your point. Now, you want to claim it was a joke and we are just overly sensitive with the panties comment.

Oregon will be found guilty of minor violatons and will receive minor sanctions. I believe in Kelly. As dozens of articles have stated, the issue is from a gray area in the recruiting guidelines.

For the record, MSU had probation/sanctions that ran through the 2000's for guilty findings on academic manipulation and fraud to pay for play. Just like Oregon, you've seen a fair share of unfavorable events recently with numerous players suspended, jailed, cut...for computer theft, assault, cheating, drinking, etc.

With your history,you should be the last program/fan taking shots at others, or pointing fingers at alleged violations, tattoos, benefits, etc.
 
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