Event The US and Slavery. Some surprising numbers.

[Denny Crane]

Why do we have to give an entity or country any assets at all? These politicians spend our tax money like drunken sailors in a whiskey bar.

Paying them off instead of fighting them saved lives and cost less.

We shouldn’t have been fighting in the first place, but you never know how that would have turned out.

 

[MarAzul]

You sound like you're going to start crying. You poor white victim you.

But on the other hand, it is a rather odd take for you to make Sly. Since you do know me some, what exactly gives you the thought that I would cry?
Or is it simple like you think old white men should just be quite and take what ever shit comes their way?
Care to expand?

 

[MarAzul]

Paying them off instead of fighting them saved lives and cost less.

We shouldn’t have been fighting in the first place, but you never know how that would have turned out.

There is a big problem with that approach though Denny. It is not at all the same and paying for property value lost in correcting a wrong.
It is more like paying a ransom to the bully. He will just want more.

 

[MarAzul]

Next you'll say that we shouldn't have lost so many lives in the American revolution or wasted the money when England was the supreme leader of the colonies.....England should have just bought the colonists off and avoided the cost of war eh?

No.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

But on the other hand, it is a rather odd take for you to make Sly. Since you do know me some, what exactly gives you the thought that I would cry?
Or is it simple like you think old white men should just be quite and take what ever shit comes their way?
Care to expand?

LOL! You said something very similar to me a while back.

 

[MarAzul]

LOL! You said something very similar to me a while back.

I don't remember it. But then that could mean clarity is over due.

 

[Paine Tablet]

You sound like you're going to start crying. You poor white victim you.

Picking on a first generation immigrant, who was orphaned by war, and who grew up in no better lot than the present day blacks you seem intent on coddling. What the fuck is your logic here?

 

[BrianFromWA]

I have some questions about your concept, Denny.

1) did all the federal and state money that went into buying "projects" in inner cities count against that 20 acres and mules? B/c that didn't come for free, and it didn't set up the oppressing white man with low-rent housing.
2) I'm not sure it's easy (or that I would respect someone if it was that easy) to say "Here's (100k or whatever). Never say the words "slavery, racism or N***er again. We're done here."
3) The issue to me doesn't seem to be that there is currently systemic bias against people of color (I humbly submit that it's never been easier to be a PoC in America as it is today, though obviously not perfect), but that we as a government/populace throw money at problems instead of setting up relationships with people. Giving Somali women in West Seattle 25k would've just ensured that some slumlord dick would've gotten an influx of cash and the women and their families would be back in shitholes quickly. But setting up training programs, assimilation training, etc. makes it so that they can use their drive and work ethic and ingenuity to make their own way in life, instead of being a "handout victim".

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Picking on a first generation immigrant, who was orphaned by war, and who grew up in no better lot than the present day blacks you seem intent on coddling. What the fuck is your logic here?

Since you asked, my father also also immigrated to this country. Something that I have mentioned a few times on here. One time I was sharing a few stories of people being jackholes to my father only because of his accent and Marazul said it sounded like I was crying. I wasn't crying at all but I did think that comment was rather offensive. He didn't. So I decided to try out a similar comment today on his post. Nice to see that you agree it was offensive.

No idea what you mean about coddling black people.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Since you asked, my father also also immigrated to this country. Something that I have mentioned a few times on here. One time I was sharing a few stories of people being jackholes to my father only because of his accent and Marazul said it sounded like I was crying. I wasn't crying at all but I did think that comment was rather offensive. He didn't. So I decided to try out a similar comment today on his post. Nice to see that you agree it was offensive.

I didn't remember that.

As for the "coddling", I have a (legit, I don't have stance on it) question. Growing up in POR, CA and South Puget Sound, and as a military brat, I went to school and befriended many immigrants, many people of color and many from cultures that were alien to me. I never really knew anyone from the southern black culture until I joined the military, when I found that on a whole ton of things ("family values", military service, "American Exceptionalism") we were very much on the same page. But I would ask "how come 90+ of the black vote is for (D)? I mean, I probably can't get 90% of white people to agree that Hitler is bad or that we should show football on Sundays, but 90% of the African-American vote is guaranteed for the (D) party, even for scrubs like Mondale and Dukakis." And many of the very intelligent and worldly men I talked to would say "it's because of messaging. The (R) party says 'let's go back to the 50's and family values and such' and we think 'the 50's were pretty messed up for us.'" I absolutely get that. But the 1880's were pretty messed up for Chinese immigrants. The 1940's weren't great for Japanese descendants. The 1970's weren't awesome for Vietnamese and Cambodians in Portland and Seattle. But it seems as if the black community (and to a worse extent, the Native American community) are doing way worse societally than Vietnamese or Irish or even Latin immigrants....why is that? Is it that only those of really dark pigmentation were systematically oppressed?

Serious question...happy for any feedback.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I didn't remember that.

As for the "coddling", I have a (legit, I don't have stance on it) question. Growing up in POR, CA and South Puget Sound, and as a military brat, I went to school and befriended many immigrants, many people of color and many from cultures that were alien to me. I never really knew anyone from the southern black culture until I joined the military, when I found that on a whole ton of things ("family values", military service, "American Exceptionalism") we were very much on the same page. But I would ask "how come 90+ of the black vote is for (D)? I mean, I probably can't get 90% of white people to agree that Hitler is bad or that we should show football on Sundays, but 90% of the African-American vote is guaranteed for the (D) party, even for scrubs like Mondale and Dukakis." And many of the very intelligent and worldly men I talked to would say "it's because of messaging. The (R) party says 'let's go back to the 50's and family values and such' and we think 'the 50's were pretty messed up for us.'" I absolutely get that. But the 1880's were pretty messed up for Chinese immigrants. The 1940's weren't great for Japanese descendants. The 1970's weren't awesome for Vietnamese and Cambodians in Portland and Seattle. But it seems as if the black community (and to a worse extent, the Native American community) are doing way worse societally than Vietnamese or Irish or even Latin immigrants....why is that? Is it that only those of really dark pigmentation were systematically oppressed?

Serious question...happy for any feedback.

From my experience growing up in NE Portland up until this latest generation the black community looked to their community churches and church leaders for representation socially and politically. Many churches would get money from the government to start, fund, and operate social programs for their communities. Dem politicians have always had a soft spot for funding programs like this. With funds comes demand for support. "If I fund your program I expect an endorsement and campaign support." From the pulpit to the polling place.

 

[BrianFromWA]

From my experience growing up in NE Portland up until this latest generation the black community looked to their community churches and church leaders for representation socially and politically. Many churches would get money from the government to start, fund, and operate social programs for their communities. Dem politicians have always had a soft spot for funding programs like this. With funds comes demand for support. "If I fund your program I expect an endorsement and campaign support." From the pulpit to the polling place.

If I was to buy that, though (and I don't have any reason not to), why isn't the black community more prosperous after receiving these grants and loans and business starts and such?

 

[MarAzul]

Marazul said it sounded like I was crying. I wasn't crying at all but I did think that comment was rather offensive.

I remember you telling of your father having troubles because of being an immigrant.
Then what you attribute to me, either did not happen, or some other chit did. It is not something I would say. I had empathy for your story.
But what can I say? Surely you do not want me to say, I am sorry for something I don't think I said?
I will say, I wish you did not think I said such a thing. I sure did not intend to and can't even imagine what the hell happened to make you think I did.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

If I was to buy that, though (and I don't have any reason not to), why isn't the black community more prosperous after receiving these grants and loans and business starts and such?

I don't know. The neighborhood I grew up in, NE Portland Blvd, between Alberta Park and Dekum Park, was a nice mix of middle class white and black families.

If you really want to know about the history of blacks in Portland I suggest you listen to this - https://www.missedinhistory.com/podcasts/the-vanport-flood.htm

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I remember you telling of your father having troubles because of being an immigrant.

No, my father has had great success being an immigrant here. I shared a few stories of people being jerks to him which you took as me crying, now you're trying to say that my father was trouble? Not even close.

 

[MarAzul]

trying to say that my father was trouble

What the fuck is wrong with you?
I never said an such thing! But the picture is beginning to clear up? For some reason you want to think I said offensive things.
Wrong Son! Never had any intention of doing so. As a matter of fact, once when I invited you to come to the boat, you were with your father or doing something with him. Cool, I was going to invite you to bring him with you but you shut the thing down, not me. In fact your words about him made hims seem like an up standing fellow, the sort man you like to meet.

Now, you can back up and reevaluate, or let the sore in your heart fester. Your choice.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

What the fuck is wrong with you?
I never said an such thing! But the picture is beginning to clear up? For some reason you want to think I said offensive things.
Wrong Son! Never had any intention of doing so. As a matter of fact, once when I invited you to come to the boat, you were with your father or doing something with him. Cool, I was going to invite you to bring him with you but you shut the thing down, not me. In fact your words about him made hims seem like an up standing fellow, the sort man you like to meet.

Now, you can back up and reevaluate, or let the sore in your heart fester. Your choice.

He is a stand up fellow. Great man. Actually the greatest man I know.

 

[MarAzul]

He is a stand up fellow. Great man. Actually the greatest man I know.

Good! Glad to hear it.

 

[MarAzul]

Picking on a first generation immigrant, who was orphaned by war, and who grew up in no better lot than the present day blacks you seem intent on coddling. What the fuck is your logic here?

Not to worry about me Paine, but our friend needs a reset in outlook.

 

[riverman]

For some reason you want to think I said offensive things.

he deleted offensive things you said about me.....guess what..you say offensive things to people

 

[MarAzul]

he deleted offensive things you said about me.....guess what..you say offensive things to people

I have been known to do so.

 

[Denny Crane]

There is a big problem with that approach though Denny. It is not at all the same and paying for property value lost in correcting a wrong.
It is more like paying a ransom to the bully. He will just want more.

1. It's only money.
2. Once paid, nobody has an excuse to complain anymore.
3. It's the RIGHT thing to do.
4. Win/win for everyone.

 

[Denny Crane]

What the fuck is wrong with you?

My guess is he chased too many parked cars and developed drain bamage.

 

[Denny Crane]

I have some questions about your concept, Denny.

1) did all the federal and state money that went into buying "projects" in inner cities count against that 20 acres and mules? B/c that didn't come for free, and it didn't set up the oppressing white man with low-rent housing.
2) I'm not sure it's easy (or that I would respect someone if it was that easy) to say "Here's (100k or whatever). Never say the words "slavery, racism or N***er again. We're done here."
3) The issue to me doesn't seem to be that there is currently systemic bias against people of color (I humbly submit that it's never been easier to be a PoC in America as it is today, though obviously not perfect), but that we as a government/populace throw money at problems instead of setting up relationships with people. Giving Somali women in West Seattle 25k would've just ensured that some slumlord dick would've gotten an influx of cash and the women and their families would be back in shitholes quickly. But setting up training programs, assimilation training, etc. makes it so that they can use their drive and work ethic and ingenuity to make their own way in life, instead of being a "handout victim".

1) Projects were concentration camps. No, that wasn't a good thing at all, and it is even more cause for reparations.

2) "You got your reparations, go forth and prosper."

3) People who win the lottery often go bankrupt. But at least they had the opportunity. Reparations is all about opportunity denied, stolen, and denied through murder. It's about the inability of generations to build up family wealth. Of course not all people who receive the reparations will be successful - probably most will go bankrupt. But it only takes a small % to be successful for reparations to be a massive win for everyone.

Reparations is giving money owed these people to these people to spend as they see fit. It's something of an insult, IMO, to tell them "we spent your money on your behalf" while claiming things like projects were of great benefit. Those places were nice when built, but the government didn't maintain them. Lead paint peeling off the walls. Elevators that didn't work, forcing people to carry their groceries up 6 flights of stairs. Segregation led to poor environment for entrepreneurship. Lack of hope led to violence.

Your #2 is resolved by letting these people spend their own money - money owed to them.

As long as government does its most important functions, reparations cannot help but be a success. Those functions are to protect the citizens and to protect their property.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

My guess is he chased too many parked cars and developed drain bamage.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

You know that there are not a lot of Blacks in Oregon because they were banned from living in Oregon until the 1920's right?

Here's some Oregon history for you. In 1922 Oregon's governor was a KKK member. The Coon Chicken Inn was an actual restaurant in Oregon from 1931 to the 1950s.

This was actually a national chain of restaurants and (according to my late father) the food was good and the chain quite popular. As an antique and collectibles enthusiast, I see the tableware (plates, bowls, sugar bowls, etc, etc, etc) for sale often and it isn’t cheap. While I personally would be uncomfortable owning anything like that (extremely rascist depictions) it’s very highly sought after, with (or so I have been told by more than a few vendors) blacks being some of the more avid collectors(?) Anyway.......just another factoid.......apropos nothing.......