The US owns 2.27 billion acres of land.

[MarAzul]

One heck of a lot of land. The great majority of the West is publicly owned, producing no tax revenue or any other revenue meaningful to the nation. Now I always thought we could pay off most of the National debt by selling a large part of this federal land.

It doesn't work any more! With 20 Trillion debt, selling half the land could now only pay it down some.
You would need over $17000 and acre to pay off the 20 Trillion. It ain't going to happen!

Keep the hiring freeze on Mr. President.

http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/291-federal-lands-in-the-us

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I bet China and Saudi Arabia would give us top dollar for a bunch of those acres.

 

[MarAzul]

I bet China and Saudi Arabia would give us top dollar for a bunch of those acres.

Not even them, has that kind a jack!

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Not even them, has that kind a jack!

Their credit is good.

 

[barfo]

Did you know you can raise cash by selling your kidneys? It's easy!

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

Did you know you can raise cash by selling your kidneys? It's easy!

barfo

Wonderful! How much will both of yours bring?

 

[theprunetang]

One heck of a lot of land. The great majority of the West is publicly owned, producing no tax revenue or any other revenue meaningful to the nation. Now I always thought we could pay off most of the National debt by selling a large part of this federal land.

It doesn't work any more! With 20 Trillion debt, selling half the land could now only pay it down some.
You would need over $17000 and acre to pay off the 20 Trillion. It ain't going to happen!

Keep the hiring freeze on Mr. President.

http://bigthink.com/strange-maps/291-federal-lands-in-the-us

You really think that that publicly owned land generates no money? Think again. BLM is a huge portion of that, and that consists of a lot of timber land. I have worked at Plywood mills in southern Oregon, and 90% of the wood we worked with was from public land. Of course you could sell all of that land and turn Oregon into a fucking wasteland. Good move.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

This land is not your land
This land is not my land
'cause Marazul wants to sell it
so he don't pay taxes

From the redwood forests
to the gulf stream waters
this land doesn't belong to you and me

 

[MarAzul]

You really think that that publicly owned land generates no money?

Less all the time. See the thread about Gov Brown and the Elliote State forest here in Coos County. The reason it is up for sale is it is suppose to generate revenue and it don't.
Gone are the days when the public land generated reliable revenue.

Ha! The county was hoping to get property tax revenue when the Elliote became private. If the state manages to con everyone into her deal, bye bye Tax revenue.

 

[theprunetang]

Less all the time. See the thread about Gov Brown and the Elliote State forest here in Coos County. The reason it is up for sale is it is suppose to generate revenue and it don't.
Gone are the days when the public land generated reliable revenue.

Ha! The county was hoping to get property tax revenue when the Elliote became private. If the state manages to con everyone into her deal, bye bye Tax revenue.

Are you in favor of intelligently managing forests or just wiping them all out? Timber is an industry, but there are limits to it. We can't cut all the forests. It has been happening for so many years without repeal that it is time to think about not destroying all of our natural areas.

 

[MarAzul]

Are you in favor of intelligently managing forests or just wiping them all out? Timber is an industry, but there are limits to it. We can't cut all the forests. It has been happening for so many years without repeal that it is time to think about not destroying all of our natural areas.

I have owned timberland for the last 25 years. I only cut dead trees or defective trees. And have planted perhaps 100 times as many trees as I have cut.
MarAzul was built from my trees, every one was dead when I cut it. Buy the way, would you like to buy a Woodmizer mill? I won't be needing it now.

 

[theprunetang]

I have owned timberland for the last 25 years. I only cut dead trees or defective trees. And have planted perhaps 100 times as many trees as I have cut.
MarAzul was built from my trees, every one was dead when I cut it. Buy the way, would you like to buy a Woodmizer mill? I won't be needing it now.

You are not everyone. Oregon is the only state where you can drive for miles and miles along an interstate and see nothing but clear cut forests. It is fucking gross.

 

[RipCityDSCPL]

This land is not your land
This land is not my land
'cause Marazul wants to sell it
so he don't pay taxes

From the redwood forests
to the gulf stream waters
this land doesn't belong to you and me

This. Is. Wonderful.

 

[Denny Crane]

Why not give some of it to black people as reparations?

20 acres and a mule never happened for them.

 

[oldfisherman]

You are not everyone. Oregon is the only state where you can drive for miles and miles along an interstate and see nothing but clear cut forests. It is fucking gross.

There was a time when our national forest where managed in a responsible manner. One old plan I read limited cutting the timber areas in the NF to no more than once every 120 years. Which would guarantee a renewable supply forever while leaving large areas untouched.

Then Nixon came alone with the agenda of building huge numbers of low cost and affordable housing for everyone. He raped the forest at a rate that was not sustainable, and he hurt the ecosystem. Today, you still can see scars left by Nixon's over-harvest program.

The environmentalist stepped in and stopped just about all logging on public lands. It is now about 10% of the previous sustainable rate. Which greatly reduced the amount of revenues from the timber sales, which paid for a lot of the schools, police and fire expenses. What is worse, they also stopped much needed management of the lands to keep them safe from fires and to help create a balanced ecosystem for the animal life. Now the environments have gone too far, and are hurting the ecosystem.

Our NF have gone from a managed sustainable program, to a boom-bust program to now a broken system.

OH, to get back on subject. China is going to repossess the Grand Canyon, build a YUGE hydroelectric dam, and sell us the electricity.

 

[MarAzul]

Oregon is the only state where you can drive for miles and miles along an interstate and see nothing but clear cut forests. It is fucking gross.

Well, Oregon isn't the only State but I do agree with your thought. That's the way she goes with Federal or State ownership of the land. They sell blocks of timber to be logged.
Many private owners know how to selectively cut. That is what I like, it is what I practiced. Try getting a government to understand how to do this!

I am currently thinking of how to show MarAzul to the best effect as a high value product manufactured from natural resourse harvested in a enviornment friendly way. Resources you might say that are even spiritually valued by some, including those that follow the Shinto religion. Port Orford Cedar, really a Cypress is a very close relative of Hinoki Cypress that grows in Japan though
Tiawan, highly valued in Asia. Here in this country, it seems we lack the level of reverence for natural resources we have and waste them with poor economic affect. When out on the MarAzul, it pains me to see ship loads of logs leaving Oregon, from every port on the coast.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Leasing mineral rights, grazing rights, etc. all generates revenue. You could sell some of it, but the truth is the country is becoming less rural all the time as more and more people relocate to urban areas. Also much of the land that is owned by the Feds is marginal in the extreme and unsuitable for anything but large-lot grazing without massive irrigation and infrastructure improvements; you'd be lucky to get $1,000 an acre in most of the arid west.

 

[riverman]

You are not everyone. Oregon is the only state where you can drive for miles and miles along an interstate and see nothing but clear cut forests. It is fucking gross.

They no longer clear cut around here...don't know about eastern Oregon...they thinned thousands of acres of old growth bordering my property and did a great job....even put anti erosion work into the logging roads and made most of them organic compost...their logging techniques are really good here..I need to thin my back acreage but a lot of what may seem clear cut when I take the train to California on trips is actually from forest fire, not logging. The Railroad used to own tons of land in the USA....I would imagine they still do...Disney corporation owns a lot of Tahoe Nat'l forest land....I say owns but probably has 99 year leases on it.

 

[riverman]

What I'm interested in is something I saw being done in the desert.....veritical farms....growing produce in towers using very little ground space...instead of a 100 acres of soybeans......you have a 20 diameter tower that's many stories high filled with soybean plants. If it catches on, we'll have a lot of real estate that won't be ground cover for food. Had an ingenious watering system too....

 

[MarAzul]

Well, Oregon isn't the only State but I do agree with your thought. That's the way she goes with Federal or State ownership of the land. They sell blocks of timber to be logged.
Many private owners know how to selectively cut. That is what I like, it is what I practiced. Try getting a government to understand how to do this!

I am currently thinking of how to show MarAzul to the best effect as a high value product manufactured from natural resourse harvested in a enviornment friendly way. Resources you might say that are even spiritually valued by some, including those that follow the Shinto religion. Port Orford Cedar, really a Cypress is a very close relative of Hinoki Cypress that grows in Japan though
Tiawan, highly valued in Asia. Here in this country, it seems we lack the level of reverence for natural resources we have and waste them with poor economic affect. When out on the MarAzul, it pains me to see ship loads of logs leaving Oregon, from every port on the coast.

Perhaps we can get something done this way.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Perhaps we can get something done this way.

Really? You're asking for $35k in charity for a Japanese vacation?

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Why not give some of it to black people as reparations?

20 acres and a mule never happened for them.

None of the black people is this country have been slaves either.

 

[oldfisherman]

The Railroad used to own tons of land in the USA....I would imagine they still do...Disney corporation owns a lot of Tahoe Nat'l forest land....I say owns but probably has 99 year leases on it.

The RRs still own a lot of land, however, most if not all of the railroad land grant lands that contained timber worth logging was sold off many years ago. Just off the top of my head Weyerhaeuser was one of the largest buyers. There are other large companies that also bought large amounts of RR timber lands, but my memory is not clicking right now.

 

[MarAzul]

The RRs still own a lot of land, however, most if not all of the railroad land grant lands that contained timber worth logging was sold off many years ago. Just off the top of my head Weyerhaeuser was one of the largest buyers. There are other large companies that also bought large amounts of RR timber lands, but my memory is not clicking right now.

I have a few off the top,
Crown Zellerbach - now ?
Pope & Talbot
Boise Cascade
Georgia Pacific
Louisiana Pacific

I knew the owner of Georgia Pacific but I didn't know who the hell he was, he was just Mr. Johnson. He had a big ass Sailboat, the Ticonderoga. Big Ti she was called in that day, owned by Robert F. Johnson. He had and office on Broadway near where it starts up the hill. They did no apparent business in that office, but unknown to me at the time, he had another bunch of offices down town on 6th avenue, the Georgia Pacific building. Head quarters was in Portland then.

 

[theprunetang]

I have a few off the top,
Crown Zellerbach - now ?
Pope & Talbot
Boise Cascade
Georgia Pacific
Louisiana Pacific

I knew the owner of Georgia Pacific but I didn't know who the hell he was, he was just Mr. Johnson. He had a big ass Sailboat, the Ticonderoga. Big Ti she was called in that day, owned by Robert F. Johnson. He had and office on Broadway near where it starts up the hill. They did no apparent business in that office, but unknown to me at the time, he had another bunch of offices down town on 6th avenue, the Georgia Pacific building. Head quarters was in Portland then.

The biggest groups in southern Oregon are still the Ford Foundation who own Roseburg Forest Products and the Swanson Group who own a bunch of places around Glendale. I worked for both of them. RFP was a much better place to work for because they had a union. Superior Lumber, owned by the Swanson Group has no union and fucked their employees over every chance they got. They also forced us to come in for an unpaid meeting where they told us that if didn't vote for George W Bush we would all lose our jobs. They made sure they kept their language "legal", but also made sure they aimed their sword at us if we wanted to keep our jobs. Great company......