The whole Steve Blake thing

[Rastapopoulos]

Steve Blake seems to be more hated than... somebody who actually deserved to be hated a lot. Why? Because he missed a few open threes? Because he's not a great scorer? Because McMillan plays him a lot?

Look at our record. Look at that string of wins. Guess what - Blake was playing big minutes while we were WINNING too. He has a positive +/- rating (even against the Hawks, believe it or not: he was +2, while both Miller and Roy were -9!). The reason he was getting those threes was because he usually hits them at a very high rate. He's possibly our BEST DEFENDER (except maybe Joel, and of course Batum when he's healthy). He SHOULD be getting minutes. Maybe not so many, but ahead of Bayless absolutely for sure. And Webster, who has looked lost most of the time he was out there. And guess what? Nate McMillan is a better coach than you, dear reader. (Except you, Phil - you really shouldn't hang out so much in Blazers' forums.)

I guess he's our Derek Fisher. I WISH we had the success the Lakers have had while their fans bitched and moaned about Fisher. He knows the game, he works his arse off, he's very unselfish, he plays within his limits (for good or bad) and he's hit some great shots for us. And he'll never stop working.

I keep trying to think of the perfect replacement, and I can't. The player who would be better than him at everything I don't like about him (and it's not Rudy - Blake is much more secure with the ball, a better defender, and even a better penetrator) wouldn't be as unselfish. Possibly it will be Batum if he keeps working on his handles. But he's injured now, so TS.

 

[RoyToy]

Agree to disagree.

 

[andalusian]

I generally agree. Blake has been playing better than people give him credit - but Rudy is finally getting into the groove of things and he needs more minutes - I would not mind seeing Blake going from 28MPG to 22 and giving the extra 6 minutes to Rudy. Rudy's defense also seems to be somewhat improved - and he is a much better offensive player.

It is not a "Blake sucks and we need to cut him" deal - it's more of a "let's see what Rudy does with additional minutes" - because Rudy can do more for us.

Of course, the real deal, imho, is that the Blake/Roy/Rudy might be our best backcourt 3-guard combo for half-court sets...

 

[magnifier661]

Webster is being asked to be a scorer off the bench. Not gonna happen. With him starting with the big three and Miller, he doesn't have to score a single point. If Blake comes off the bench, he becomes the #2 option, behind Fernandez. Would have been 4th if Outlaw wasn't injured, hell maybe 4th if Bayless gets burn. Offensively, this makes more sense.

 

[magnifier661]

Webster is being asked to be a scorer off the bench. Not gonna happen. With him starting with the big three and Miller, he doesn't have to score a single point. If Blake comes off the bench, he becomes the #2 option, behind Fernandez. Would have been 4th if Outlaw wasn't injured, hell maybe 4th if Bayless gets burn. Offensively, this makes more sense.

Basically what I am saying is Blake would be the better scorer off the bench than Webster, IMO. Webster can be more of the hard hat defender on the starting unit.

 

[Ed O]

I guess he's our Derek Fisher. I WISH we had the success the Lakers have had while their fans bitched and moaned about Fisher. He knows the game, he works his arse off, he's very unselfish, he plays within his limits (for good or bad) and he's hit some great shots for us. And he'll never stop working.

He will also never get to the free throw line. Never get a steal. &c.

In fact, there is a lot on the basketball court he will never do, and that's the reason many of us are keen to see him getting the backup role he deserves.

Ed O.

 

[B-Roy]

Blake isn't nearly as bad as some people here make him out to be, but I agree that he needs to see a drop in minutes.

 

[PapaG]

He will also never get to the free throw line. Never get a steal. &c.


Ed O.

Blake .67 spg in 29.5 mpg. Miller .75 spg in 29.0 mpg. Rudy 1.75 spg in 22 mpg, with the caveat being that Nate has to play a zone at times with Rudy in the game, which allows him to roam the court.

An odd criticism of Blake, IMO. Most players don't excell in every asset of the game. That's why they are called supporting (or role) players.

 

[julius]

Blake .67 spg in 29.5 mpg. Miller .75 spg in 29.0 mpg. Rudy 1.75 spg in 22 mpg, with the caveat being that Nate has to play a zone at times with Rudy in the game, which allows him to roam the court.

An odd criticism of Blake, IMO. Most players don't excell in every asset of the game. That's why they are called supporting (or role) players.

role players shouldn't play 40 minutes.

 

[magnifier661]

Blake .67 spg in 29.5 mpg. Miller .75 spg in 29.0 mpg. Rudy 1.75 spg in 22 mpg, with the caveat being that Nate has to play a zone at times with Rudy in the game, which allows him to roam the court.

An odd criticism of Blake, IMO. Most players don't excell in every asset of the game. That's why they are called supporting (or role) players.

My case isn't because I think Blake sucks. In fact, I think he can score at least more consistently than Webster. But Webster being on the second unit has really shown how inconsistent he is on the offensive end. It really hurts to watch him play sometimes and I am a huge Webster fan.

Anyways, Blake being on the second unit, maybe even being a 3 guard line-up of Blake, Bayless and Roy wouldn't be that bad. When the other team subs their SF, you can move Roy at 3 and have Blakey, Bayless and Fernandez in at times.

Webster being on the starting core, doesn't even have to be an option on the offensive end, unless he's wide open or running the break. It's a much easier role for him, only having to worry mainly on defending the SF and help rebounding.

 

[PapaG]

role players shouldn't play 40 minutes.

Blake's playing 29.5 minutes. I'm hoping Bayless/Rudy cut that to under 20 mpg as the season progresses. Blake can play the Batum role from last season (in terms of being the 5th option with the starting unit), only from the SG position.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Blake is a very average, at best, PG. "Servicable" is a word to describe him. What upset me was that he is not the type of player that hits a game winning shot. Both of those 3's and the short jumper he missed late he didn't set his feet real well and that's the sign of being too anxious. Either he should not be given the ball at such times or should not be in the game.

Aside from that, Blake is OK. He defends well and while not a very good passer (doesn't run the pick & roll very well), he can make the safe assist. He's a good back up PG.

 

[andalusian]

role players shouldn't play 40 minutes.

It's good that he does not even play 30 for us, then.

20-22 MPG is where he should be playing with the team, as currently constructed.

 

[Ed O]

It's good that he does not even play 30 for us, then.

Last night he sure did. Unless you mean LITERALLY 30, in which case you are right, since he played 40.

He's also played more than 30 minutes in six of the last nine games overall, unfortunately.

20-22 MPG is where he should be playing with the team, as currently constructed.

Agreed 100%. Please convince Nate of this.

Ed O.

 

[andalusian]

Last night he sure did. Unless you mean LITERALLY 30, in which case you are right, since he played 40.

Well, he is not averaging that. He was playing pretty good defense last night - and with the loss of Travis and Nate being uncomfortable giving Dante minutes - I suspect that lead to this.

He's also played more than 30 minutes in six of the last nine games overall, unfortunately.

Again, he is averaging less than 30 for us so far.

Agreed 100%. Please convince Nate of this.

I do not think I need to. Nate is not stupid. Rudy was playing like shit at the start of the year. I am certain you will see more Rudy and less Blake as time goes on. I also suspect that he played JB spot minutes because he does not want to strain him until he is fully healed.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

He will also never get to the free throw line. Never get a steal. &c.

Depends. If he hits enough threes, he'll get fouled in the act. Not every player HAS to get to the FT line, and conversely, there are very average players who are good at that (Maggette being the poster child). Likewise with steals: Iverson has always been a league leader in steals, and as far as I know Eric Snow got fewer than Blake, but we know which of them was the matador and which was perennial all-defense.

In fact, there is a lot on the basketball court he will never do,

The can can, the foxtrot, open heart surgery to name but three! What a waste of space.

and that's the reason many of us are keen to see him getting the backup role he deserves.

To quote Unforgiven, deserves got nothing to do with it.

 

[Ed O]

Well, he is not averaging that. He was playing pretty good defense last night - and with the loss of Travis and Nate being uncomfortable giving Dante minutes - I suspect that lead to this.

I don't see why Nate losing a power forward would impact the number of minutes a PG would play.

Again, he is averaging less than 30 for us so far.

I know he isn't. Because he didn't play as many to start the year... three straight games of under 27 minutes.

I do not think I need to. Nate is not stupid. Rudy was playing like shit at the start of the year. I am certain you will see more Rudy and less Blake as time goes on. I also suspect that he played JB spot minutes because he does not want to strain him until he is fully healed.

I hope you're right. I do. But he's played MORE lately (see: the first three games of the year at 24 minutes a game)... so I have my doubts.

Ed O.

 

[andalusian]

I don't see why Nate losing a power forward would impact the number of minutes a PG would play.

Because we are missing offense and the options were play more small-ball and hope that Blake will contribute offense with the long-ball or play more Howard (not a great scorer at this point) or Dante (who is not trusted, yet, by Nate).

I hope you're right. I do. But he's played MORE lately (see: the first three games of the year at 24 minutes a game)... so I have my doubts.

He played more when the line change happened - and we won, so, I can understand that. When Nate was willing to give JB more minutes - he twists his ankle requiring more minutes by the other guards, and then we have Travis going out in a game where our offense was sputtering at the end.

Does not seem much more than game/roster situation to me.

 

[PapaG]

I don't see why Nate losing a power forward would impact the number of minutes a PG would play.


Ed O.

I'm guessing it has to do with Nate's comfort of the players available to play those 21 minutes that opened up with Outlaw's injury. Blake seems to be taking some of those minutes, although Oden did as well last night. Maybe that will change as Nate gets a handle on what player he needs to effectively replace Outlaw's minutes. Did you expect Juwan Howard to suddenly start playing 21 mpg just because he's a PF and Outlaw plays PF?

 

[Pontius]

Steve Blake seems to be more hated than... somebody who actually deserved to be hated a lot. Why? Because he missed a few open threes? Because he's not a great scorer? Because McMillan plays him a lot?

That one.

 

[e_blazer]

Blake plays with Brandon in Nate's system because he fills the role of a perimeter shooter that is needed when Roy initiates the offense. Admittedly, he hasn't been doing it very efficiently of late, but he's been solid in the past. Blake, Outlaw, and Rudy are the only guys on this roster who seem to be able to hit from distance in pressure situations. Webster has the physical tools to fill the role, but the mental aspects seem to elude him. With Outlaw out, I don't see there being any chance that Blake's minutes are reduced or that he's moved to the second unit. IMO, that only happens if there's a coaching change...something which MM and others would be happy to see, but which is NOT happening unless this year is a total disaster.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Let's not forget: Blake is a better defender at BOTH GUARD SPOTS than Brandon Roy. This is mildly depressing, but appears to be true. (Maybe moving Roy to SF is a not-so-subtle dig at Roy to improve his D.) Blake is to us this year as Delonte West was to Cleveland last year. They're about the same size, about the same skill set and both playing "out of position" at SG. Let's hope we can win as many games as Cleveland. Our overall talent level (when averaged out - obviously most of their's is concentrated in LBJ) is certainly comparable.

 

[Mediocre Man]

This is not a criticism about Nate, but I think it might be more the way he is used, than he himself.

Blake is a role player, and should play those minutes. I honestly think Blake is being asked to do things he is not capable of doing.

I think the same could be said of Travis. It's not his fault that his coach overuses him.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Maybe I should start a "That Whole Nate McMillan Thing" thread. McMillan's record as a coach of the Blazers has exceeded what we had a right to hope for. If he does things that we don't get, the rational thing to conclude is "his years of playing in the NBA have probably given him a feel for the game that we don't have, and this is borne out by his record". But oh no, it's FUCK YOU MCMORON! CAN'T YOU SEE BAYLESS>>>>>>>BLAKE!!!???

I hope to Christ nobody connected with Blake OR McMillan reads this board. Thankfully, it's very likely that they don't.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Maybe I should start a "That Whole Nate McMillan Thing" thread. McMillan's record as a coach of the Blazers has exceeded what we had a right to hope for. If he does things that we don't get, the rational thing to conclude is "his years of playing in the NBA have probably given him a feel for the game that we don't have, and this is borne out by his record". But oh no, it's FUCK YOU MCMORON! CAN'T YOU SEE BAYLESS>>>>>>>BLAKE!!!???

I hope to Christ nobody connected with Blake OR McMillan reads this board. Thankfully, it's very likely that they don't.

I have noticed that I have voiced my support for Blake and Nate more than I usually would because of the posts you are talking about.

Everyone talks like Nate is an idiot for starting and using Blake (and Outlaw) as much as he does. I'm not saying a coach is always right, and maybe Nate is making mistakes here and there (I don't know) . . . but I do know he isn't an idiot who isn't watching the games . . . or incapable of understanding Bayless' value vs. Blake's value.

 

[Ed O]

Let's not forget: Blake is a better defender at BOTH GUARD SPOTS than Brandon Roy. This is mildly depressing, but appears to be true.

I don't see any evidence of this. Blake is not a good defender at all as far as I can see. His defensive rating is 103, which is the exact same as Roy and Miller this year and worse than six other Blazers that play regularly.

This is better than last year (110) but I don't see the improvement as evidence that he's suddenly a good defender.

Ed O.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I don't see any evidence of this. Blake is not a good defender at all as far as I can see. His defensive rating is 103, which is the exact same as Roy and Miller this year and worse than six other Blazers that play regularly.

What is this "defensive rating" of which you speak? Why should I believe that individual defense is easily or accurately quantifiable when multiple switches occur all the time and better defenders are called on to "help" off their man when worse defenders are beaten?

 

[oldmangrouch]

All-Star SG Brandon Roy is being forced to play out of position at SF, to accomodate Steve Blake.

If that doesn't disturb you, you aren't drinking the Kool-Aid, you are drowning in it.

 

[PapaG]

All-Star SG Brandon Roy is being forced to play out of position at SF, to accomodate Steve Blake.

If that doesn't disturb you, you aren't drinking the Kool-Aid, you are drowning in it.

It may also be said that he's playing SF because of Andre Miller, couldn't it?

 

[RoyToy]

It may also be said that he's playing SF because of Andre Miller, couldn't it?

Blake is the one playing SG, not Miller.