This Is A Big Fucking Deal

[TradeNurkicNow]

[video=youtube;HHKq9tt50O8]

 

[maxiep]

It's a huge deal. The idea of health care being a fundamental right has been a dream of a significant segment of this country for a long time. For those of us who cherish our freedom, it's a big fucking deal, too. We lost a lot of it in one fell swoop.

 

[barfo]

It's a huge deal. The idea of health care being a fundamental right has been a dream of a significant segment of this country for a long time. For those of us who cherish our freedom, it's a big fucking deal, too. We lost a lot of it in one fell swoop.

I wonder if, had freedom-lovers made a list say, 3 or 4 years ago, of their most cherished freedoms, in order, what the ranking would have been of those freedoms lost to this new law.

barfo

 

[maxiep]

I wonder if, had freedom-lovers made a list say, 3 or 4 years ago, of their most cherished freedoms, in order, what the ranking would have been of those freedoms lost to this new law.

barfo

Your control over your own body. Ironically, the very same argument pro-choice women make. "My body, my choice", sound familiar?

 

[Denny Crane]

My response (about Biden): big fucking deal.

 

[barfo]

Your control over your own body. Ironically, the very same argument pro-choice women make. "My body, my choice", sound familiar?

Exactly how have you lost control over your own body (aside from shitting yourself) due to this bill?

barfo

 

[MARIS61]

Your control over your own body. Ironically, the very same argument pro-choice women make. "My body, my choice", sound familiar?

Your comparison is amazingly irrational and insensible.

How does "only wealthy people get healthcare" translate into "Freedom for All"?

 

[MARIS61]

Exactly how have you lost control over your own body (aside from shitting yourself) due to this bill?

barfo

repped.

 

[maxiep]

Exactly how have you lost control over your own body (aside from shitting yourself) due to this bill?

barfo

Oh, dear barfo. So naive. You try to deflect the point, but it's not working. The pieces are all in place. You're either deluding yourself or you're playing checkers while others are playing chess.

 

[maxiep]

Your comparison is amazingly irrational and insensible.

How does "only wealthy people get healthcare" translate into "Freedom for All"?

Name a poor person who doesn't receive health care? It's a myth. Hell, even the example President Obama used in Ohio about the woman who chose not to pay for her insurance and now fears losing her house was ridiculous. The woman is getting treated at the Cleveland Clinic. The hospital has explicity stated they're not going after her assets. I wish I could get treated at that hospital; it's one of the best in the country.

 

[maxiep]

Your comparison is amazingly irrational and insensible.

How does "only wealthy people get healthcare" translate into "Freedom for All"?

BTW, enjoy that 3.9% tax put on capital gains from housing sales. I'm sure that will help you earn commissions.

 

[Denny Crane]

The cleveland clinic (and mayo clinic, I think) follow the blueprint for health care I proposed. The doctors and staff get paid salaries and not per procedure. My suggestion was for a govt. option that paid the doctors and staff salaries, and wouldn't require $.01 in new taxes.

 

[MARIS61]

Name a poor person who doesn't receive health care?

It would literally take me all day. I know several hundred at least. And that's just people I know on a personal basis.

Roughly a third of the population here in Beautiful Central Oregon do not have healthcare of any kind. They are not poor people by most worldwide standards. They just can't afford US-priced healthcare, or a Lamborghini for that matter.

Do you even live in this country? Seems unlikely anyone could live here and be so insulated from the bulk of society as you claim to be.

 

[maxiep]

It would literally take me all day. I know several hundred at least. And that's just people I know on a personal basis.

Roughly a third of the population here in Beautiful Central Oregon do not have healthcare of any kind. They are not poor people by most worldwide standards. They just can't afford US-priced healthcare, or a Lamborghini for that matter.

Do you even live in this country? Seems unlikely anyone could live here and be so insulated from the bulk of society as you claim to be.

You're lying. Hospitals are not allowed to turn away the sick. Nice try, though.

 

[MARIS61]

BTW, enjoy that 3.9% tax put on capital gains from housing sales. I'm sure that will help you earn commissions.

It certainly won't have any negative effect on residential Real Estate sales at all, and I'd be amazed if you could factually support why you think it would.

 

[maxiep]

It certainly won't have any negative effect on residential Real Estate sales at all, and I'd be amazed if you could factually support why you think it would.

Are you serious? Wow. Let me see if I can help you. There's a simple concept in economics that directly applies to real estate: the more you tax an activity, the less of that activty occurs. Now, I understand that you're a real estate amateur, but we professionals in real estate understand the impact and import of new taxes put on transactions.

 

[MARIS61]

You're lying. Hospitals are not allowed to turn away the sick. Nice try, though.

Fuck you. I never lie and I always tell the truth.

Hospital do not provide healthcare to uninsured people.

They are required by law to provide emergency care and nothing more. You cannot go to the hospital and get non-emergency illnesses diagnosed, treated or screened. You cannot get a colonoscopy, mammogram or any other of hundreds of routine tests that insured people get and avoid dying because they did get them. You cannot get treatment for potentially fatal diseases like Hep C or cancers or lupus or thousands of other illnesses. You cannot get cataracts treated to prevent blindness. You cannot get dental care. I could go on forever with what facets of healthcare you cannot get at hospitals without insurance or cash.

What you get is diagnosed, stabilized, and dismissed, or DSD'd as the EMT's call it.

 

[Stevenson]

We lost a lot of it in one fell swoop.

Gimme a break. What freedoms did you lose?

Talk about hyperbole!

 

[OSUBlazerfan]

Fuck you. I never lie and I always tell the truth.

Hospital do not provide healthcare to uninsured people.

They are required by law to provide emergency care and nothing more. You cannot go to the hospital and get non-emergency illnesses diagnosed, treated or screened. You cannot get a colonoscopy, mammogram or any other of hundreds of routine tests that insured people get and avoid dying because they did get them. You cannot get treatment for potentially fatal diseases like Hep C or cancers or lupus or thousands of other illnesses. You cannot get cataracts treated to prevent blindness. You cannot get dental care. I could go on forever with what facets of healthcare you cannot get at hospitals without insurance or cash.

What you get is diagnosed, stabilized, and dismissed, or DSD'd as the EMT's call it.

Lol, the crazy old man is coming out again

 

[MARIS61]

Are you serious? Wow. Let me see if I can help you. There's a simple concept in economics that directly applies to real estate: the more you tax an activity, the less of that activty occurs. Now, I understand that you're a real estate amateur, but we professionals in real estate understand the impact and import of new taxes put on transactions.

You've made it clear in previous posts that you don't quite get how residential real estate is driven so I won't belabor the point, and you are correct that capital gains taxes do have a slight deterrent effect on mega-wealthy commercial real estate investors, but there is simply no correllation between residential home sales and and capital gains taxes. It is not even a passing thought as it doesn't apply to anything other than mega-million estates sold for a huge profit. We can be fairly certain that scenario is at least a decade away.

That's how it works in Oregon anyway. Some other states may have their own more strict capital gains taxes, but that's their (state) problem.

 

[Denny Crane]

You've made it clear in previous posts that you don't quite get how residential real estate is driven so I won't belabor the point, and you are correct that capital gains taxes do have a slight deterrent effect on mega-wealthy commercial real estate investors, but there is simply no correllation between residential home sales and and capital gains taxes. It is not even a passing thought as it doesn't apply to anything other than mega-million estates sold for a huge profit. We can be fairly certain that scenario is at least a decade away.

That's how it works in Oregon anyway. Some other states may have their own more strict capital gains taxes, but that's their (state) problem.

You don't mean decade, you mean 3 years when there's a new president.

 

[MARIS61]

You don't mean decade, you mean 3 years when there's a new president.

You think a new president will immediately fix the economy so people are selling homes for a huge profit?

Not gonna happen.

 

[maxiep]

Fuck you. I never lie and I always tell the truth.

Hospital do not provide healthcare to uninsured people.

They are required by law to provide emergency care and nothing more. You cannot go to the hospital and get non-emergency illnesses diagnosed, treated or screened. You cannot get a colonoscopy, mammogram or any other of hundreds of routine tests that insured people get and avoid dying because they did get them. You cannot get treatment for potentially fatal diseases like Hep C or cancers or lupus or thousands of other illnesses. You cannot get cataracts treated to prevent blindness. You cannot get dental care. I could go on forever with what facets of healthcare you cannot get at hospitals without insurance or cash.

What you get is diagnosed, stabilized, and dismissed, or DSD'd as the EMT's call it.

Wow, you're a confused little man. If you're not a liar, then you really are batshit crazy.

As for your contention that hospitals don't provide healthcare to uninsured people, that's patently false. My mother's last three jobs were running Tuality, Meridian Park and Emanuel. Perhaps you've heard of them. I assure you that all hospitals provide treatment. It may not be everything you wish, but it's healthcare. The vast majority of the time it's free. Sometimes, they'll work out a payment schedule. Emanuel in 2007 lost over $20MM by giving away these services. And they provide ongoing care services for free, not just emergency services.

However, it seems that you want all your healthcare and not pay a dime for it. Gee, that sounds swell. As for not getting all the tests you'd like to have, that's a choice. You can either purchase insurance, pay your bill in cash or work out a payment plan. I've even known people to barter. If you can't afford insurance, you likely qualify for Medicaid. Health care is a good just like any other. You only have a right to it in the sense that the government can't restrict you from seeking it.

So, you're either woefully uninformed or you're lying. Which is it?

 

[Denny Crane]

You think a new president will immediately fix the economy so people are selling homes for a huge profit?

Not gonna happen.

Yeah, I do.

In 1981, my wife and I bought our first house, for $52,000 in the chicago suburbs. When we applied for our mortgage, we locked in a rate of 18 7/8th %. In the 90 days it took to close, the rates dropped to 12 3/8th %, saving us $450/month in mortgage payments. Real estate basically took off from there.

Three years later, we bought a place in the SF Bay Area for $144,000 that was worth over $1M before democrats took over congress in 2007.

But nah, even after days of malaise like Jimmy Carter gave us and now Obama is giving us, a new president can't make a difference, right?

 

[Eastoff]

speaking of a big deal, check this out
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/...6643&acd=10550055-1225267-u0t0f0fp32166c0s441

 

[MARIS61]

Wow, you're a confused little man. If you're not a liar, then you really are batshit crazy.

As for your contention that hospitals don't provide healthcare to uninsured people, that's patently false. My mother's last three jobs were running Tuality, Meridian Park and Emanuel. Perhaps you've heard of them. I assure you that all hospitals provide treatment. It may not be everything you wish, but it's healthcare. The vast majority of the time it's free. Sometimes, they'll work out a payment schedule. Emanuel in 2007 lost over $20MM by giving away these services. And they provide ongoing care services for free, not just emergency services.

However, it seems that you want all your healthcare and not pay a dime for it. Gee, that sounds swell. As for not getting all the tests you'd like to have, that's a choice. You can either purchase insurance, pay your bill in cash or work out a payment plan. I've even known people to barter. If you can't afford insurance, you likely qualify for Medicaid. Health care is a good just like any other. You only have a right to it in the sense that the government can't restrict you from seeking it.

So, you're either woefully uninformed or you're lying. Which is it?

I have insurance, so I get healthcare.

But your mother lied to you if she said Meridian Park Hospital provides healthcare to uninsured people. It's a great hospital IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT IMO, and my father had numerous insurance-covered heart and other major operations and procedures there over the years. Great, talented staff of physicians.

You keep changing terms and points but you can't change the facts. It's never free, that's ridiculous. True, hospitals will write off a loss when it's obvious they can't collect, because it's financially beneficial for them to do so. But they will bill the poor person the same monumental fees they bill everyone else, and they will hound him/her or their collection agency will including filing lawsuits, putting liens on homes, garnishing wages...just like a car dealer when you miss a few payments.

As for how Meridian Park treats the poor seeking healthcare, my best friend (disabled and living on about $300 month, went there with severe chest pains which he had been having for 2-3 weeks. Despite a history of organ failures and past (but not recent) alcohol abuse they did no tests at all, and told him it was most likely indigestion. Despite his persistence that he was quite fearful he was having heart attacks they refused to even diagnose him because his Oregon Health Plan had dropped his insurance due to lack of state funds.

He died at 52 of a massive heart attack later that week.

 

[MARIS61]

However, it seems that you want all your healthcare and not pay a dime for it.

Not quite. I can pay my way.

But yes, I do want every single AMERICAN to have healthcare, whether they can pay or not.

It's a pre-requisite to becoming a civilized society.

 

[maxiep]

You've made it clear in previous posts that you don't quite get how residential real estate is driven so I won't belabor the point, and you are correct that capital gains taxes do have a slight deterrent effect on mega-wealthy commercial real estate investors, but there is simply no correllation between residential home sales and and capital gains taxes. It is not even a passing thought as it doesn't apply to anything other than mega-million estates sold for a huge profit. We can be fairly certain that scenario is at least a decade away.

That's how it works in Oregon anyway. Some other states may have their own more strict capital gains taxes, but that's their (state) problem.

Question: If you purchase a house to live in sometime in the 70s for let's say $30K and you sell it for $300K, is that not a capital gain? I think it is. More importantly, the IRS thinks it is. Unless you purchase another home with the proceeds, you're paying that extra tax. And if you're a couple looking to retire, that $10,540 out of the $270K takes a bite.

Furthermore, if you're a person who makes a modest living through the hard work of being a landlord, your payoff is at the end when you sell your property. If you've owned a property for a long time, you've depreciated it sometimes all the way to zero. Your capital gains are massive. So a lifetime of hard work gets penalized.

It seems a shame to penalize those people who have made wise investments. And since you're so experienced in real estate and all, I'm sure you know that not all owners of valuable properties are wealthy. For most people, their house is their largest investment.

 

[MARIS61]

Yeah, I do.

In 1981, my wife and I bought our first house, for $52,000 in the chicago suburbs. When we applied for our mortgage, we locked in a rate of 18 7/8th %. In the 90 days it took to close, the rates dropped to 12 3/8th %, saving us $450/month in mortgage payments. Real estate basically took off from there.

Three years later, we bought a place in the SF Bay Area for $144,000 that was worth over $1M before democrats took over congress in 2007.

But nah, even after days of malaise like Jimmy Carter gave us and now Obama is giving us, a new president can't make a difference, right?

Not sure how that proves your point but it sounds like your mortgage broker made a killing off you.

Real Estate in Oregon has increased in value roughly 6% per year on average, ever since records were kept in the early 1900's. Despite the smoke and mirrors caused by Bush/Cheney economics that caused the bubble and collapse, we're still right at that mark in the long run.

Real estate in Oregon is, and always will be, a safe longterm investment.

As for the Bay area, it's great that Reagan had ruined the economy so badly that you could steal that home for a song. I made a similar killing in Milwaukie in late 1983 and locked in at 8% just before the rates went through the roof again, back into the teens. It took Clinton nearly 3 years in office before I could re-fi at a lower rate.

 

[MARIS61]

Question: If you purchase a house to live in sometime in the 70s for let's say $30K and you sell it for $300K, is that not a capital gain? I think it is. More importantly, the IRS thinks it is. Unless you purchase another home with the proceeds, you're paying that extra tax. And if you're a couple looking to retire, that $10,540 out of the $270K takes a bite.

Furthermore, if you're a person who makes a modest living through the hard work of being a landlord, your payoff is at the end when you sell your property. If you've owned a property for a long time, you've depreciated it sometimes all the way to zero. Your capital gains are massive. So a lifetime of hard work gets penalized.

It seems a shame to penalize those people who have made wise investments. And since you're so experienced in real estate and all, I'm sure you know that not all owners of valuable properties are wealthy. For most people, their house is their largest investment.

No. To pretty much all of that. It's a bedtime story authored by the Republican Party.

We sold 2 homes we had in LO over the last 3 years, and everyone told us we would get reamed by the capital gains tax. Didn't happen. Paid nothing at all. Nada. Nor has any client of mine ever mentioned having to pay.

Since I didn't pay, I didn't care enough to learn the legaleeze, but I've been told that (maybe true, maybe not) the feds exempt your first million dollars of gains on a residence, then tax the amount of profit over 1 mil.

Oregon is even kinder. They exempt your first 2 mil before they tax anything.

Obviously it's different on 2nd homes, rentals, business properties...as they are treated more like other investments such as stocks and bonds. But there are a number of ways to defer or avoid taxes there through trusts, endowments and 1031 exchanges.

Capital gains taxes only affect the uber-wealthy, and they can certainly afford it.

As for the landlord scenario, as you point out he's been escaping taxes for years by claiming depreciation which didn't really happen, so he owes and should pay. Lucky he doesn't pay extra for evading taxes all those years. No way we should have to supplement his business at our expense.