Thornton rumor

[Ranger71]

I doubt that SJ would accept it but maybe it can be tweaked. I'd think they'd want either Stepan or Brassard. And the fact they're offering McIlrath shows that he's not huge in their plans anymore.

 

[SaveLundy]

Staal + Fast + picks or McIlrath, I'd rather keep Mcilrath fast is ok to throw in, maybe a 2 or 3rd. Thorton is old and this team is going to be F-king ancient with that trade. Still rather move Girardi whom cant skate worth a damn.

 

[chuckd3534]

We would not be old. Look at the roster.

We'd still have Lindberg and Miller and Kreider and Hags and Stepan all 25 or younger ready to go. And we'd have Zucc and Brassard 27 and under as well. That is 7 forwards all 27 or younger. So we'd still have plenty of youth.

I agree on McIlrath and actually rather give up a pick than McIlrath since we will need some solid D if we deal Staal.

And due to the youth I mentioned above AND the fact that I like Fast but don't see a big time player there, I would have no issue dealing him for Thornton.

Staal, Fast, 2nd or 3rd round pick I would do for Thornton.

Still leaves us with good youth upfront. I rather not give Staal a big deal on the heels of Girardi's big deal and with Staal's injury past. And we have some good solid youth close on D as well. So I would make that deal.

And Girardi was just re-signed, and has a NTC, so he is going no where.

 

[Ranger71]

I'd run with a deal of Staal/Fast/Dmc and figure out how to replace Staal into training camp. The salary trade would still leave them with almost no space, plus you'd have Lindberg blocked at C but Moore can play W too.

 

[cagedlion]

Thornton is not the answer. 35 years old and on the decline.
This would not be good for the Rangers.

 

[theProdigy223]

I'd rather build the package around Brassard. We've seen his ceiling and he reportedly wants 4.5-5m right now. This from a guy who has played 7 years and still has yet to hit 50 points.

I would have no problem penciling in Lindberg as the 3rd C if the first two are Thornton-Stepan. I have a much bigger problem with how the D will look if we trade Staal. Thornton's money would all but guarantee we won't be getting another dman to replace Staal. After seeing how posters treat the d corp as it is, I give it until November for this board to be in full meltdown mode if Klein-Boyle are the second pair.

If we absolutely have to trade Staal, Id see if I can get a cheaper top 6 center and then try to add another dman.

A lot of moving parts right now, we'll see what happens.

 

[mrmel29]

I hate this deal. Don't like thorntons age and salary and don't see how we can give up staal after losing strahlman. Fasth can go with picks if we have to do this. Rather keep brassard who is younger will cost less and has done well in the playoffs. Big mac cannot be traded in this deal. I expect a better trade than this from sather. Rther keep what we have and continue to build from within and make other offensive upgrade moves moving guys like klein instead of a staal. Don't want to do what we did a few years ago and break up a winning team, this time a sc finalist that came within 3 ot and 2 double ot games from winning a cup. Come on glen just say no to this

 

[Ranger71]

The rumor on the E. Staal possible deal is they like Talbot alot, plus Brassard/2nd/maybe other prospect. I'm not sure how it works cap wise but it seems there'd be a few million difference.

 

[mrmel29]

The rumor on the E. Staal possible deal is they like Talbot alot, plus Brassard/2nd/maybe other prospect. I'm not sure how it works cap wise but it seems there'd be a few million difference.

I like him but cap hit of 8.25 makes it almost impossible to me to see how we fit him plus what carolina would want back for him

 

[theProdigy223]

I could see Carolina eating some of that salary to get rid of that contract. Maybe we can get them to retain 1.5m or so and get his hit down to Thornton's.

 

[chuckd3534]

You need to remember the deal with M. Staal guys. He is a UFA next summer, who has said he wants a deal done prior to the season. Most likely best case for us he will want a Girardi type deal, and maybe more since he is a few years younger. So you need to decide now do you want Staal re-signed at 5.5 or so per for 5 or 6 years. That's the question here, not will you simply trade him or not. If you choose NOT to trade him then know what that means. It essentially means you are signing off on the type of extension I mentioned above.

Now maybe you are good with that kind of deal for Staal, that's cool, but just know that is what you are saying if you don't want to deal him now.

 

[chuckd3534]

As for Thornton, personally I think we are going a little too far in here with his hate. Not sure how you say he is on the decline. Last 3 full seasons he has scored 76, 77, and 70 points. In the lockout season he had 40 points in 48 games, which is 68 points over 82 games. So I don't think he is on the decline.

With that said, he is 35 now, and maybe has 2 or 3 good years left tops. So that is very true. And he has never been a big playoff guy, that is true as well.

That is why NO SHOT I even think for one second about dealing Stepan for him. I would be open to flipping Brassard for him as Prod said. I agree with everything you wrote on Brass. Guy has never scored 50 points yet he will get a deal in the mid 4's. He is 27 in 2 months, so he is not some young guy still growing like Stepan is at 24. So to me if I could get a Thornton for our window the next 2 or 3 seasons by adding Brass I would.

As for the rumor, again with Staal I would do it just because I am not sure it makes sense to re-sign him long term with his injury history. And considering we have a few dmen signed long term that would make me pause as well. Prod brings up a very fair point though regarding our D. You take Staal out now and it does look a little questionable in the bottom 4.

I would still make the deal because I think Fast is okay, but not some great prospect, and I would throw a 3rd with Staal and Fast to close it down. I don't see that as giving up a ton for Thornton since I rather not re-sign Staal for 6 years anyway.

 

[BigDaddyAl1973]

The rumor on the E. Staal possible deal is they like Talbot alot, plus Brassard/2nd/maybe other prospect. I'm not sure how it works cap wise but it seems there'd be a few million difference.

Dont want e staal at that salary, unless marc lowers his to play with eric

 

[chuckd3534]

As for E. Staal, clearly he would be a HR if we could add him somehow. Again I would offer Brassard to give them a C back, and Talbot if they like him, and a pick, and maybe even throw in a mid prospect like a Fast if I had to.

I think they would have to eat a little of Staal's deal though since his contract is over 8 per, and we are up against the cap. Or maybe we include Klein with Brass and Talbot and that gets it done. That would cover the money. Maybe we include a 2nd or 3rd rounder and/or Fast if we need to. I would do that.

Brass, Klein, Talbot, 2nd or 3rd, and/or Fast FOR Staal

That is not a ton to get a C like E. Staal.

That would also mean we are re-signing M. Staal for sure, since he would stay here no doubt if we added E. Staal. So adding Klein to get some money out is not a bad idea. That would allow us to have a spot on D for a kid as well since Staal, Girardi, McD are all signed for 4 + years. On top of that Boyle and J. Moore will be signed for 2 years after Moore re-signs soon. So Klein can go and balance off the salary.

Having Staal and Stepan as our # 1 and # 2 C's would be awesome. Then I could clearly live with Lindberg or Miller as the 3rd C. That would be pretty sweet.

BUT is E. Staal REALLY available? I doubt that. Players like him at his age, with his deal still having years left, usually don't get dealt.

But if he is available that would be my focus for sure. Staal and Stepan at C would be real nice.

 

[theProdigy223]

The key to an E. Staal deal would be Carolina taking on some of his hit. Dont forget teams can do that now. Like when FLA traded Versteeg to Chicago, they retained half his hit. If we can get Carolina to take on even 1.2 mil or so and get E.Staal's hit down to 7, I'd do it over Thornton for a lot of reasons.

He's 29, Thornton is 35.

He's only signed for 2 more years, Thornton is signed for 3.

He can also SCORE GOALS. Thornton may rack up points but he is really lost his scoring touch the last few years. Staal can easily hit 25 here and we still need to replace Richard's 20 and Pouliot's 15.

Hes won a cup. We all know Thornton's playoff record.

Talbot may also be a key to this deal. Talbot is a UFA after this season. I bet there's a lot of teams out there which would give him more starts than he would see here. The Islanders just signed Chad Johnson who was arguably the second best pure backup last year to a deal worth 1.3m. Do we really want to give Talbot something similar and have 10m tied up in goalies? Carolina could have some interest there, they are down on Cam Ward and Khudobin is unproven.

Brassard, Talbot, Fast for E.Staal. Give them Klein if we have to to make the money work, or flip him for a pick if Carolina doesnt want him. Overpay a little bit if we have to to entice them to take on some of his hit for the next 2 years until his contract is up.

 

[theProdigy223]

Chuckles I completely missed your post. Glad to see we offered the exact same package haha

 

[chuckd3534]

The logical package is there iF the Canes really wanted to deal Staal, which quite frankly I doubt.

Brassard would give them a C back. One who is only 27 so with years left. A decent # 2 type C.
Talbot would give them a solid backup to pair with Khudobin. And who knows maybe he can develop into a starter. And if they like Talbot that makes him valuable to them.
Fast/a pick has value. I would go either way here. And quite frankly if they wanted Fast AND a 3rd I would do it.
And I would have them take Klein as well. We can take the whole Staal contract if they take Klein. And if we get E. Staal that means we will be re-signing M. Staal long term, so we do not need Klein. They should take him period end of story.

Talbot, Brassard, Fast and/or a 3rd, Klein FOR E. Staal

I realize on the surface that seems like a lot, but is it? Brassard has never scored 50 points, and Staal is a very large upgrade. Talbot is our backup, so we can afford to lose him. I like Fast but he is what he is. A nice prospect, but certainly not a big time prospect. Klein we want them to take for salary reasons and the fact that we would be re-signing M. Staal which gives us 3 dmen locked up for a very long time.

It really would make sense for us. A 1/2 C duo of Staal/Stepan would be awesome I think. Then we play Miller or Lindberg as the # 3 C.

Hags/Staal/Nash
Kreider/Stepan/MSL
Miller/Lindberg/Zucc
Glass/Moore/other

Solid stuff. Gives us two really top level lines. Then we give the kids a shot with Zucc, and if they don't get it done add a foward at the trade DL.

McD/Girardi
Staal/Boyle
Moore/kid

That is a sweet team. And if the kids pan out, it would be a special team.

 

[theProdigy223]

I like that team a lot. Like you said, if the Miller/Lindberg experiment doesnt work out somebody can be added down the line. That top 6 should be good enough to carry the load for awhile.

 

[mrmel29]

If e. staal is really available and I'm sather I tell san jose to take a hike and if brass(who I only trade for a young 2 years old much better center, talbot,fast and klein get me staal and I'm sather I whip out a victory cigar as there is nobody irreplaceable in that package (the old quantity but not great quality line) and it also keeps M staal here which I don't think we can lose right now without really taking a BIG step back on D. If this trade was done we can sign one of the many fa goalies cheap as a backup and plug in a lindberg and miller or even take a long look at kristo. And don't forget the 2 miracle 3rd rders from last year duclair and buc look like their coming very quickly and at least one of them likely here within the next 2 years. Other teams have youngsters up and flourishing and if gorton thinks our kids are ready earlier than later I say bring them up here. E. Staal here would be AWESOME!!!!!

 

[chuckd3534]

Yeah, Staal would be perfect here to pair with Stepan, and we have the potential package to get it done. If they do like Talbot as reported, a Talbot/Brassard/Fast and/or pick/Klein package would have to be attractive to the Canes.

Between Brassard and Klein that would be about 7.5 mill in deals, so maybe 750 K or so less than Staal's deal, so the money can work.

I am just not sure I buy that the Canes will look to deal Staal. I would be all in for him if they were looking to deal, but I just don't know if they really would deal him.

 

[chuckd3534]

Biggest take away is whether it is Staal or Thornton or other, something will happen here. We are looking to upgrade at forward, which is a must IMO.

 

[chuckd3534]

For the record Staal will be 30 in late October, so he is essentially 30 and will play 95% of the season at 30. He also didn't have a great season by his standards this past season. 21 goals and 61 points, which is still very solid, but below his usual standards.

With that being said, I would still deal for him for sure. Two years left with a cap hit of 8.25 is not awful either.

He would be by far choice A. I would put Thornton a distant choice B, and only for the right package.

 

[Stepupstepan]

I like E. Staal idea here a lot. That would be great addition. He seems like he needs a change of scenery for sure. Carolina has not made the playoffs in forever so it makes sense for them to look for a big trade to shake things up. I think Carolina would like Miller included in the package in place of fast.

Talbot, Brassard, Miller and/or a 3rd, Klein for E. Staal

Good, fair deal for both sides.

 

[chuckd3534]

I don't think we'd have to give up Miller and Brassard and Talbot and Klein for Staal. I would offer Fast AND a 3rd if I had to before I included Miller. I just get the feeling that Miller won't be moved hearing AV and Sather talk about him.

And I would be surprised if we dealt Miller and Brassard in a package. Right now that is our # 2 and # 3 C's. I think we would keep Miller if we dealt Brassard.

 

[NYR2009]

This is exactly why we don't win and why we won't win until Sather is gone. Why would we get Joe Thorton? Another guy who has done absolutely nothing in the playoffs. Together with Nash they will cost over 14M, both are complete crap in the playoffs. Without Brassard's line we would never even make the playoffs last year, not to mention the fact that line carried us in the playoffs with a timely play or a goal. Why? Why would we give up him for an old Thorton? Why would we give up Stall? Finally we have a stable defense. All know their role and playing well.

I understand that neither Stepan nor Brassard are 1st line centers but we need to roll with it and see what happens. Promote from within. Take a chance on someone.

 

[chuckd3534]

Okay, so your vote is to re-sign Staal for 5 or 6 years and 5.5 mill or more per (meaning McD, Girardi, Staal, and Klein are all signed for 4 or more seasons). AND let Brassard be our # 2 C scoring 45 or so points, maybe close to 50 if we are lucky, making 4.5 or a touch more per. Then let unproven and totally unknown not high level prospects Lindberg (never played an NHL game) or Miller (solid prospect but not a top prospect and never really played C in the NHL) be our # 3 C.

Okay, votes counted for 2009. Maybe that will all work out...who knows, but forget playing a kid on D if that is the case with Boyle and Moore also signed for at least the next two years (who knows if Moore gets 2 or more years...2 is the minimum).

 

[chuckd3534]

I get your overall point is let it be and keep the team together, but the issue is that cannot happen. Richards is gone. Pouliot is gone. Dorsett is gone. Boyle is gone. Stralman is gone in favor of D. Boyle. So changes happen with a tight cap and RFA's who want to get paid.

And moving Brassard up to a # 2 C is risky. Counting on young kids who are not top prospects to C the 3rd line is risky. You have to adapt and move forward or you die.

Now no shot I deal Stepan for Thornton, but if I had to deal Brassard and Fast and a pick I would. Or if I had to deal Staal, and Fast, and a pick I would (this is under the assumption that we won't re-sign Staal long term). It is very risky to me to re-sign Staal long term, I can see doing it, but it is risky.

I think we all agree the best option is to make a strong play for E. Staal if he is really available.

 

[NYR2009]

First, I do not want Joe Thorton. Another old guy who will come here to do nothing. I don't want him here at all. We really do not need Klien as a 3rd defensive pair. 3M per year salary hit is too much, instead get a kid who makes less than 1M per year to play with John Moore and yes resign Stall. 3M from Klien plus 1.5 M of cap space that we have should be enough to sign Brassard type of C who would be better than Richards.

 

[chuckd3534]

So deal Klein away for a pick and play a kid? And who is the C you are signing to go along with Brassard and Stepan? And that also means you are on board with re-signing Staal for 5 or 6 years at 5.5 mill per give or take?

Again, you cannot just live in a vacuum when you look at moves, you need to look at the full big picture.

I am not saying get Thornton or don't get Thornton, frankly I could go either way depending on the package AND he has a full NTC and still says he wants to stay in SJ period, but you need to look at the whole team and how every move affects each player.

Not dealing Staal this summer pretty much means we will re-sign him long term I believe, Staal said he doesn't want to go into this season with no deal in place, so make sure you factor that in since he is a UFA next summer.

 

[Ranger71]

I would sign Staal and look to trade Girardi. I'd much rather have Staal at 5-6 more years than Danny Boy. Wonder if Carolina would take Girardi and Talbot plus a Fast type prospect for Staal. Doubt it.